Ships & Modules

I also would like to point out that HML have 2 other advantages over the other medium lr weapons.

1st they do not use cap to fire , oh fine neither does artillery , still a valid point

2nd they do not have minimal range: good luck hitting anything, of your size and smaller , even double webbed with artillery , when it circles you at 5 km, Now the same scenario with HM , well with the webs you will most likely do full damage .

So while medium LR weapons are 15 + , HM are 0 + .

Also if you've seen the videos lately all medium sized LR weapons are replaced by BS sized ones , mostly because the new microjump module lets your BS fleet ignore bubbles and keep it's sniper range.

So at what size engagement do you envision HML being worse than a medium LR gun turret?

That is a very odd question since it obviously depends on what turret, fired from what ship onto what HML-ship, how that fires on you and in what size of engagement, to begin with.

Look at it like this instead:

If we can establish that HML platforms are generally Caldari, with below median base mobilities, drone bays, utility highs, utility mids and a higher dependency on support for accuracy...

Then i would use my superior mitigation, mobility and utility to overwhelm their support.

In a smaller scale fight i would seek to thread ontop of them by focusing and spreading my EW superiority respectively (ie., flood their Recons with the EW of both my Recons and drone-bays); then LR tackle their lynchpins one-by-one and cycle off to the next one as mainline ships land.

In a larger scale fight i would seek to knock out Logistics with my EW superiority while sniping out their Recons from under them so i can then shift to isolating their Logis further and begin to work on the Tengus or Drakes.

The goal of both strategies is quite simply to remove the support from the HML-platforms so their damage output drop below your own, while you preserve your support (-longer).

So let's recap:
- the LR-M turrets do more damage to equal, smaller and sig-speed manipulating ships (ie., hostile Recon and Logi)
- the SR-M, LR-M or Drone platforms generally have more spare drones, highs and mids (ie., providing an EW superiority)
- the LR-M turrets are less dependant on (Recon-) Support to apply damage (ie., incapacitating Support lower in-DPS).

The smaller scale strategy is similar to the one executed by the Deimos or Thorax rushes available in TinkerHell's Crucifixion IV from 2010 or more recent videos like Miriam Sasko's Spee Legacy and Cavalira's Cinnamon Fleet Series. You can also see it from a Drake-perspective, being threaded upon, in EVE-Unions Brosec Politic.

For the larger scale strategy i suggest you begin with watching the 2009 medium-scale PL movies, such as Resting in Curse, William the Merc and Adaption Theory. Then you translate what you learn from them to today's LR-M-turret movies such as PL's Royals, VoC's Volta vs. Darkspawn or NCdots U93O- Final Timer.

Also note, that many other common core strategies developed through these approaches: The Blaster rush examples are really just a specific subset of AHAC for small-scale environments against kiting HML and Blap. Most AHAC concepts have similar elements in them (of running anti-support firing and EW), and other AHACs like the original Ishtars have counter-sniping potential. The Alpha trend originally comes from Muninns in the SHAC examples above, so it started out as an LR-M concept. The Lokis are an amalgamation of it all: sig-speed, counter-sniping, tackle-threading and alpha.

Instant damage matters a lot at range in PvP.

And then there's damage reduction, and you don't get the critical hits as you do with turrets, which add on a fair chunk to the "EFT" DPS.

from memory...

Heavies: ~700dps @ ~68km 600dps @ ~88km
HAMs: t1= i forget, Rage - 893 @ 22km

I still have missile bombardment 5, warhead upgrades 5, and HAM Spec 4 left to train, and this is with a 3 lowslot 7 midslot config, so there's room to squeeze out more dps if needed.

Kitty, that Drake fit is laughably bad. If you are going to make a straw man, don't make it out of rotten straw.

500dps with 5 t2 hobs at max skills. The topic is about HMLs. Disable the drones and show the drakes dps with just missiles.

Also, the hardest hit from the nerf was pve missile ships. PvE drake used to get fairly good dps with plenty of tank, now it gets under 300 dps with drones fitted. I was fitting a drake for sleeper sites yesterday with one BCS and it barely topped 200dps from just missiles.

Honestly wish they hadnt nerfed HMLs, and Drake. For PvE, its not near as useful as it used to be. When they get to nerfing Tech 3 m i have a feeling the Tengu is going to get nerfed too.

of course they would have, but then again they're already using tracking enhancers, and not using extender rigs on those fits would leave them with the tank of a wet paper bag.

Clearly, i used range rigs on the drake because its tank is already more than sufficient, and there is no tracking enhancer for missiles


awww . . . how cute . . . a PvE mission runner who thinks thats the way most people use drakes . . .

My fit does more damage at more range with more EHP than your fit posted below which btw also lacks a prop mod and tackle . . . why are we using your fit again?




My fit is a standard PvP range fit using T2 HMLs firing CN scourge ammo with 2 T2 ballistic control systems

None of the figures in my original post use drones as they are a non factor in long range engagements.

Yes I did use range rigs because, as I stated before, the drake already has a more than sufficient tank and does not have an alternative module to use for range.

perhaps you would like assistance in fitting your ship?

Ah funny how some ppl still say hml-s are good , just to looking at eft numbers :O

Just some hint my eagle out dps my cerb in fleet fights all the time , even when in eft eagle has like -30% dps.
Oh how can that happen? Answer that and you will see why hml-s are way overnerfed.
And add in that medium rails are pretty crappy to start with.

EFT nooob go away˘˘

uses an eagle in fleet combat

then calls us noobs . . .

atm this is all I can find on eve-kill for a combat record on Naomi Knight http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1124632&view=losses&m=1&y=2012 Of course there may more combat record which eve-kill is not fetching. The damn site's gone downhill over the years. It used to fetch the whole thing without problems. But somehow I suspect there is not much more to be found with Naomi, seeing as the corp history is so, well how shall we say, consistent.

I know that it speaks to a lot of experience flying HML Slashers and impairors. Those damn things need to be nerfed more tbh. But probably Naomi would oppose any more impairor or slasher nerfing. So we should all heed the brave and learned words of Naomi.