These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Killmails - Fleetmembers in system to appear on your kill/loss-mail
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#21 - 2013-03-05 22:13:17 UTC
If you don't like or use killmails, don't look at them.

Many folks in game use them for a wide variety of valid purposes, whether it be to fulfill a mercenary contract or for intel reasons... or simply just to use the kill/loss numbers or ISK value destroyed as a score board of sorts (it is a game, remember).

Asking for their removal may make you sound like a superior player that is "above that sort of thing", but in reality it is fairly short sighted and selfish.

Public killboards have their issues with how they interpret the data and present statistics, and I'm sure eventually even more flavors will be available to serve different purposes, but the data should be freely available to anyone playing the game.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#22 - 2013-03-05 22:15:26 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Remove Killmails...

Better solution. The can keep the ingame one f you want to link a kill. But this API KB thing needs to go.



Before I sold my main I used to fly a Triage Carrier in a nullsec alliance. Years ago mind you.

The leadership would not let us activate the Triage modules. Even though me and many others paid for our own ships. They would rather let a whole cornered BS fleet get eaten than risk a Carrier loss mail. They said it was demoralizing for the Alliance. I'll tell you what was demoralizing. To watch your friends and their named ships vanish one at a time in the overview while you're stuck at a POS. Even though you promised to protect them.


I would lovingly welcome the complete removal of killmails and the boards that go with them.

Your alliance leadership is what needed to be removed, not the killboard data.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-03-05 22:16:39 UTC
Absolutely not.
In Kspace this might seem like an innocent change but it would ruin scouts and alts ect. Especially in WHs this would be a big issue as it would provide extremely useful intel to people absolutely for free.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#24 - 2013-03-05 22:26:00 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
If you don't like or use killmails, don't look at them..


The fundamental principles of liberty...

Fine. I change my stance.

Although I strongly dislike them and would very much like to see them removed. I cannot advocate their removal just to suit my personal preference.


I just really wish that important people in governing positions did not put so much weight on them. At the cost of what is truly important.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#25 - 2013-03-05 23:25:04 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Absolutely not.
In Kspace this might seem like an innocent change but it would ruin scouts and alts ect. Especially in WHs this would be a big issue as it would provide extremely useful intel to people absolutely for free.


Agreed. This would ruin a large aspect of my allocated SP and the Wspace environment (disregard alts, they suck anyway). On the other hand if this could be reworked in such a manner that these fleet members would only appear in the KM's the fleet members themselves recieve (and not that of the victim) I'd have less issues with it.
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#26 - 2013-03-05 23:31:50 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Remove Killmails...

Better solution. The can keep the ingame one f you want to link a kill. But this API KB thing needs to go.


While I personally like KM's I actually agree getting rid of them would be good for the game. People care a lot about them and don't realize they are more of a PVP activity monitor than anything else. Anyone can have a high efficiency KB if they put time into it.

Every day I'm wafflin!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#27 - 2013-03-05 23:39:35 UTC
Cavalira wrote:
I fly logi. I dont care about the kills.

The main reason i'm posting this is for the solo aspect, where killmails will show potential links and/or logi. To appeal to the Nullsec readers, I included the logistics part.

Did some "solo" pvpers ruin your day with their links and neutral repper alts?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#28 - 2013-03-05 23:41:05 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Absolutely not.
In Kspace this might seem like an innocent change but it would ruin scouts and alts ect. Especially in WHs this would be a big issue as it would provide extremely useful intel to people absolutely for free.

Agreed. This would ruin a large aspect of my allocated SP and the Wspace environment (disregard alts, they suck anyway). On the other hand if this could be reworked in such a manner that these fleet members would only appear in the KM's the fleet members themselves recieve (and not that of the victim) I'd have less issues with it.

Useful intel? I guess you'd love LOCAL

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#29 - 2013-03-05 23:45:34 UTC
If you remove KMs, then how else will people ninja PL's fits.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-03-05 23:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Absolutely not.
In Kspace this might seem like an innocent change but it would ruin scouts and alts ect. Especially in WHs this would be a big issue as it would provide extremely useful intel to people absolutely for free.

Agreed. This would ruin a large aspect of my allocated SP and the Wspace environment (disregard alts, they suck anyway). On the other hand if this could be reworked in such a manner that these fleet members would only appear in the KM's the fleet members themselves recieve (and not that of the victim) I'd have less issues with it.

Useful intel? I guess you'd love LOCAL

Yeah, that's exactly what I said... Roll
EVE needs less free intel (everywhere), not more.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#31 - 2013-03-06 00:17:46 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
If you don't like or use killmails, don't look at them..


The fundamental principles of liberty...

Fine. I change my stance.

Although I strongly dislike them and would very much like to see them removed. I cannot advocate their removal just to suit my personal preference.


I just really wish that important people in governing positions did not put so much weight on them. At the cost of what is truly important.

On that we agree.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Prekaz
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#32 - 2013-03-06 00:18:34 UTC
If you deserved to be on that killmail, you would have gotten a shot in.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#33 - 2013-03-06 00:20:17 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
EVE needs less free intel (everywhere), not more.


That's a double edged sword.

People will only make themselves vulnerable to attack in a place where they feel safe. Reducing their intel will increase the risk to your victims and if they consider the area too dangerous to be worth visiting then you won't have any victims at all any more.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Freyja Asynjur
Folkvangr
#34 - 2013-03-06 00:26:10 UTC
What's lacking from killmails is the damn context. You can show every fleetmates in the mail, it won't give any more clue about what really happened — you can't give meaning to numbers by adding more numbers, nor by removing them.

If anything, the popular killboards are responsible for a terrible design encouraging mockery and bashing over stories.

-
Serptimis
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-03-06 00:44:20 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Op cares only about killboard stats and refuses to fly logi and/or be a true team player until his/her/its killmail fetish is satisied.

If you want more killmails...GET BETTER AT EVE.

Being good at getting lots of KM's and being good at EVE are not necessarily the same thing.
XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
#36 - 2013-03-06 21:04:21 UTC
Id say yes as long as they are contributing to the engagement in some way other than just being in fleet/system. Links, logi yes. What if one person in fleet is afk but in same system and not actually contributing to the engagement? Do they get on the killmail too? What if someone in fleet is scouting a gate? They are in fleet, in system......not actual engaged in fight but providing Intel on anything coming or goin. Do they get on the mail too?

CCP will look at these questions/situations when/if they expand killmails.
Cavalira
Habemus
#37 - 2013-03-06 21:32:00 UTC
If they're AFK, they'll get on the kill. It's your job to kick them I guess...
XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
#38 - 2013-03-06 21:53:36 UTC
Cavalira wrote:
If they're AFK, they'll get on the kill. It's your job to kick them I guess...

So pile as many friends into fleet/system, regardless of whether or not they contribute, so they will appear on the mail? Essentially killmail whoring on a whole new level.

I dont believe CCP will go for that.....
Zenos Ebeth
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-03-06 22:01:04 UTC
Cavalira wrote:
If they're AFK, they'll get on the kill. It's your job to kick them I guess...


I can already see the hundreds of frigates sitting cloaked in a safe , waiting to get on that titan KM.

Bad posts are not welcome on these forums.  -CCP Falcon
GreenSeed
#40 - 2013-03-06 22:14:50 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
Killmails need to show:

- Tackle by order gained, and duration.
This so we can see who took the first tackle, how long he lasted, etc.

- boost effects active on killed/killer.
no need to list fleetmates, or who gave the boost. just what type of boost was the ship under. maybe listing the module would be enough.

- Logistic support.
who was offering reps to who, no need to list how much rep was provided, it can easily be inferred by the type of ship that did the RR.

whoever....

a complete "fix" to Killmails would entail:
-removal of killmails.

show me ONE new eve player who even cares about kms.

it almost impossible to convince a newbie to fit a point in their ship, when they can fit another -50% targeting range mod, -40% tracking, another +20% jam chance, another -50% speed... etc. specially when any fight they can get will be against a player who will have +25% total ehp, +30% to +50% more damage, +30% more speed, etc.

also, the idea of forcing someone to commit to a fight they have no intention of running from seems kinda pointless. people who still insist on the idiotic "holy trinity" of point, web and prop need to stop being stupid.