Warfare & Tactics

A couple of points on this:

1. The logi dude most likely warped in at range. So he really isnt concerned about getting shot. If he gets shot he warps out cuz he wont be pointed and he will then jump in a combat ship and then there will be two people killing you.

2. Others are unlikely to do anything about the logi dude. He will be in a mission site so there wont be a bunch of ppl seeing him go red. Unless someone invites them to a fleet they wont be in the site and wont be able to agro the logi dude. And in a carebear mission zone in high sec it is unlikely than many would be interested in getting involved in any event. Its nothing personal but those dudes are likely to be busy running their own missions and wont wanna risk their toys.

Seems fair enough to me.

I would call it an exploit if you are being undermined by a party that you cannot engage.

The orca should have to be in the fight in order for your opponent to use the refitting service.

If an orca supporting you should become suspect, then what else should incur a suspect flag? Certainly things like logi support and remote sebos or projected ECCM do (and should), but what about someone ship scanning your enemy for you? What about someone watching dscan for enemy logi for you?

What actually happens in space between two (or more) spaceships is only about 10% of the game. Cultivating a support system is important pre-fight work. You have to know the options open to your enemy and he most likely knows these things about you. You're given the same tools as your enemy, and your challenge is to use it better than him.

Some weeks ago we had a call go out to our little community. Someone was in a fight. It was a Vindi versus a Nightmare. The Vindi couldn't break the Nightmare and the Nightmare was (very slowly) getting back to gate. We went out with some bump ships and got him off gate, but the Vindi still couldn't break the Nightmare. We went to scramble an Orca so that the Vindi could refit some neuts but the Nightmare got a friendly Orca on grid first, changed out some lows for warp core stabs and got away.

Both combatants had support networks and the Nightmare pilot used his better.

Rubbish. On grid tactical options increase the unpredictability of the outcome and are a healthy thing for the game. Or do you think the only tactics that should be used in a fight involve things that go pew?

You fell to a cruiser, it could have been worse. This guy was PvP fit and fell to an assault frigate.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15901643

Then there was this guy that simply logged off in a non-cap stable shield boosted Macherial, he died shortly after his lonely ship capped out. (No Re-Fit needed)

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16332298

Yup, if anyone is Flashy Yellow and hanging around to get shot at, there is usually a plan involved. Sometimes the plan is horrible, sometimes not so much.

Still doesn't explain why an Orca doesn't inherit the suspect flag for the same reason a remote repper does.
Highsec pvpers are even more attached to Concord protection than the bears.

What makes you think that using an Orca's fitting service would allow someone to GTFO?

I would suggest not being so bad at EvE.

The thing about using refitting services on an Orca or grabbing more cap boosters from its fleet hangar is, from the Orca pilot's POV, is passive assistance, whereas 3rd party logi, remote ECCM, and other such things are all active assistance. Passive assistance goes for things such as gang links as well.

So for those people who are all like "rah rah Orcas should be suspect too!" I seriously doubt you've thought the whole thing through. So try this on for size:

I have mining char in a open mining fleet with Orca boosts. These are common enough, so that this situation is plausible and there can be any variation of this. My mining char not-so-innocenltly slides over to a yellow rat wreck and scoops some loot, and goes suspect... then slides over to the orca while I have another alt aggress it, and my miner aggresses back. My miner then uses the fitting services on the Orca... preso! Houston, we have a suspect Orca! This would be great for not-a-AWOX AWOXing of Orcas in fact.

If done right, the Orca pilot would have had no idea this was happening. He wouldn't have seen my miner go flashy yellow because they would have been in fleet together, and thus all fleet members will always show as a purple tag per the default overview settings. He doesn't get a notification that someone is actively accessing a service on his ship, so there's no warning there either.

See now? Try thinking things through a bit before you grab for the first idea that's flashy.

/T