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A reason for improving mission loot.
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Sh0plifter
Underworld Property Accounting Partnership
#41 - 2013-03-05 08:46:33 UTC
Hi-sec Carebears cry about PVP being so expensive because they think they need 200m-500m ships to pvp. They think every fight they are going to lose their ship.

They dont want to lose their ships. That is why it is expensive.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#42 - 2013-03-05 08:46:51 UTC
Entitlement ITT

.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2013-03-05 15:41:50 UTC
Pookie McPook wrote:
CCP have for years been looking for a way to increase the takeup of PVP within its population of carebears. My opinion is that the barrier for most casual players to leave high sec and go looking for trouble is cost.



Ludicrously ridiculous on its face. With insurance and plenty of meta 3 gear available at or below melt value, losing ships in PvP can be freakishly cheap. Lose a T1 cruiser? No problem... run one L4 mission and make more than enough ISK to cover the replacement cost.

The people that do not PvP, do not PvP, for one very simply reason.... They have no interest in PvP. And, there is NOTHING you can do to make them want to PvP.


Pookie McPook wrote:

The upshot is that if you are looking to replace say a fully fitted PVP 'Cane then you need to fork out about 75m? That can be an evening's work. People who want to PVP don't want to spend a week missioning in order to have enough in their pocket to fund a night's fun shooting people.


Then you are spending way too much on your PvP ships. Meta 3 and a few friends, ftw.



Pookie McPook wrote:

There is very little money to be made in manufacturing mods or indeed ships these days. Why anyone does it is beyond me.
.


They do it because they enjoy it. You enjoy PvP, and they don't understand why. Well, they enjoy mining, building, marketing, and you don't need to understand why.


Pookie McPook wrote:

The economy is stagnating to the point that the cost of items on the market is pretty much ore price. Gear can't get much cheaper yet most people find that pvp is not self subsidising.


If PvP could pay for itself, then people would just create alts to blow up all day, every day, to farm the profits from PvP.



Now, I ask you this. Why does meta 3 gear trade at melt value? Simply supply and demand. Too much supply to meet the demand.

You say that you want faction mods to drop from missions so you can make a couple hundred mill every once in awhile from a mission. What is that? Every 10th mission or so? Great. I'll hop in my 4 accounts, one providing boosts, two shooting in machs, and one looting and salvaging... All pulling missions. Oh, I'm a busy man, but I'll run 50-100 missions a day.. .And If I get a faction mod every 10th mission, I'll crush the price of faction gear down to what M4 is currently selling for, and then M4 will be selling for melt value.
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2013-03-05 15:52:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Spetznak Sokarad
Vince Snetterton wrote:
OP, you have come to the wrong place to get support for your idea.
In fact, the new CSM will be making it a priority to ruin missions even further, at least high sec ones.

They will be focused on accelerating the process of turning high sec into a wasteland.

Read the CSM platforms, or listen to the Zebra Crossings podcasts, or simply read these forums, and put it all together.
The new voting system ensures complete dominance of the CSM by null sec.
CCP has already stated they want the CSM more closely involved in the direction of the game, as a "stakeholder", and null sec is going to make every effort to control the CSM and the direction of the game.

The null sec power blocs are a patient bunch, and not stupid. They realize that CCP will put up quite a lot of resistance to wiping out high sec in one go, so they will ask for "small rebalances", and maintain the pressure over the coming years. They have been at it for a couple now, with noticeable results on reducing high sec income.

My best guess, their ultimate wish list to CCP will include:

Mission loot/bounties cut in half
Incursions cut by 50-75% (though a goon rep said he wants them left alone, so that one is iffy),
Refining efficiency maxed at 90% in high sec.
Oh, but that refining efficiency won't mean much since null sec is whining, and will get, new rocks that pump out huge quantities of trit and pyerite. Wanna guess what that does to high sec mining income?
Oh, and for the industrialist, odds are quite high that you can kiss goodbye T2 mfg in high sec.

And this is not conjecture. These are all various items posted on numerous platforms of null sec candidates, or in forum posts by the null sec propaganda teams over the last 6 months. Given that the null sec power blocs are looking to control at least 10 of the 14 seats, maybe 12, they will be pushing hard for this to happen.

I have been focusing on cleaning out my hangars of all meta 1 and meta 2 stuff, refining, and then selling the low end minerals before the mining changes are announced and trit, pyerite, and the other low end min prices crater. I also figure that meta3 and meta4 items will rise dramatically when T2 item production is handed to the null sec oligarchs.

But, as I said, these guys are a patient bunch. They recognize it is a long long haul to wipe out high sec, they won't get all they ask for in this CSM. But they will maintain the pressure, and sooner, rather than later, no one will be able to make a decent income in high sec.


people should be able to make enough income in high sec to "get by". highsec should be equivelant to making minimum wage in real life. if you want to make higher wages, take some risks and stop eating the sand.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-03-05 16:17:20 UTC
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:

people should be able to make enough income in high sec to "get by". highsec should be equivelant to making minimum wage in real life. if you want to make higher wages, take some risks and stop eating the sand.


Between should and must, must wins.

People must be able to make enough ISK in high sec to fund their accounts on PLEX, otherwise, CCP suffers a massive income loss. This is why CCP has created high sec as they have, and is why CCP is not going to undo high sec as it now exists.

CSM and null alliances can rant and rave all they want. CCP will never nerf high sec to the point that the high sec carebears can't keep their accounts funded with PLEX.
Mongoose Ellecon
Elite Mice
#46 - 2013-03-05 17:11:31 UTC
OP I feel what should happen is mission rewards, bounties...ect.. scale depending on which sec you do them in.

I always thought the point of the CSM was to represent all the player base...it will be interesting to see how much CCP listens too if all they get is a bunch of moaners complaining about high sec and missions Big smile
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2013-03-05 17:14:02 UTC
Pookie McPook wrote:

There is very little money to be made in manufacturing mods or indeed ships these days. Why anyone does it is beyond me.
.


I make a fortune making those very things.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#48 - 2013-03-05 17:24:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Pookie McPook wrote:

There is very little money to be made in manufacturing mods or indeed ships these days. Why anyone does it is beyond me.

I make a fortune making those very things.

In highsec, I hope. Nullsec is not for industrial playstyles, because it is a lawless wasteland.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Annihilious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-03-05 17:51:55 UTC
Frigates and even cruisers are pretty cheap and fun to fight in....
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2013-03-05 17:54:59 UTC
Annihilious wrote:
Frigates and even cruisers are pretty cheap and fun to fight in....

You mean get-instapopped-on-the-gate-by-camping-pirates in.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Goldnut Sachs
#51 - 2013-03-05 19:08:20 UTC
lol no, it's called a credit card, to set yourself free from the 550mil monthly overhead per account.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#52 - 2013-03-05 19:55:20 UTC
Goldnut Sachs wrote:
lol no, it's called a credit card, to set yourself free from the 550mil monthly overhead per account.

Only about 500mil or so per plex now.

Some of us have multiple accounts because we LOVE EVE ONLINE TOO MUCH/

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-03-05 19:59:40 UTC
Pookie McPook wrote:
the better level 4 missions such as WC, Mordus, Gone Beserk or Blocade run with maxxed out social skills may get you 3m in reward, 10~20m in bounties and then there is the loot..


Plus the LP. If you get the right stuff with LP it works out to about 40mil an hour, which is on par with nullsec ratting.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-03-05 20:05:45 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
The people that do not PvP, do not PvP, for one very simply reason.... They have no interest in PvP. And, there is NOTHING you can do to make them want to PvP.


If they don't want to PvP then why do they mine? Why do they inject more isk in to the game? Why do they buy & sell on the market? These things are also PvP.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2013-03-05 20:43:16 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
The people that do not PvP, do not PvP, for one very simply reason.... They have no interest in PvP. And, there is NOTHING you can do to make them want to PvP.


If they don't want to PvP then why do they mine? Why do they inject more isk in to the game? Why do they buy & sell on the market? These things are also PvP.


I was using the term PvP in the same context as the OP. When he says "CCP have for years been looking for a way to increase the takeup of PVP within its population of carebears.", I don't think he is referring to market orders, the race for rocks, or other non-exchanging-ammo-violently types of PvP.
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