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Science & Industry

 
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Since we are on the subject of needed changes, here is simple suggestion #2
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caliis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-10-26 17:43:12 UTC
This has been mentioned before but ill bring it up again. new mining ships. yep half of you are leaving but ill try and present it in a different point of view. Mining is a major career as i have mentioned before. the general idea of mining is that it is fly to belt mine fly back, in fact that is all it has ever been solo, in a group it is so much more, as professional miners know already.

Now to my point and suggestion, T3 mining ships. They exist for combat, there is a whole skill set for these ship's subsystems. why not give other areas access to this level (finally). EVE ship engineers are awesome and powerful beings that exist outside of time and space, but awesome power is not absolute power, they have limited themselves in their endeavors to the destruction of the universe, why? The power of creation is more instilling of greatness then destruction's footnotes in history.

This destruction is a major part of day to day life in null sec, and everywhere for the most part. these powerful entities that position the development of ships have constantly pushed the level and scope of devastation to newer and grander heights then before. however this is to the exclusion of the greater force of creation. without the means to creation destruction has nothing to destroy and no tools to destroy with. so to improve the devastating force and focus they have on destruction give creation the means to feed this need in the universe.

by providing newer and better ships, T3 mining ships. ( or even just more T1 and T2 ships with more function), the lesser creators who build the universe through the vastly inferior means to the method of destruction can then supply more to the meat grinder we call home in EVE. T3 Ships for industry please...
Anachronic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-10-26 18:46:19 UTC
caliis wrote:
This has been mentioned before but ill bring it up again. new mining ships. yep half of you are leaving but ill try and present it in a different point of view. Mining is a major career as i have mentioned before. the general idea of mining is that it is fly to belt mine fly back, in fact that is all it has ever been solo, in a group it is so much more, as professional miners know already.

Now to my point and suggestion, T3 mining ships. They exist for combat, there is a whole skill set for these ship's subsystems. why not give other areas access to this level (finally). EVE ship engineers are awesome and powerful beings that exist outside of time and space, but awesome power is not absolute power, they have limited themselves in their endeavors to the destruction of the universe, why? The power of creation is more instilling of greatness then destruction's footnotes in history.

This destruction is a major part of day to day life in null sec, and everywhere for the most part. these powerful entities that position the development of ships have constantly pushed the level and scope of devastation to newer and grander heights then before. however this is to the exclusion of the greater force of creation. without the means to creation destruction has nothing to destroy and no tools to destroy with. so to improve the devastating force and focus they have on destruction give creation the means to feed this need in the universe.

by providing newer and better ships, T3 mining ships. ( or even just more T1 and T2 ships with more function), the lesser creators who build the universe through the vastly inferior means to the method of destruction can then supply more to the meat grinder we call home in EVE. T3 Ships for industry please...



I read the first paragraph and stopped...I will answer why there shouldn't be T3 mining ships from that. there is no need for them. T3 combat ships serve the role of versatility at the Cruiser level, but there isn't enough need to have a T3 mining ship. You can mine ore or ice...or you can boost but that's it. Why the hell do you need a ship that would cost probably in the order of half a bil to make for some non existant versatility. All of the roles in the mining world are already filled by multiple ships. there is no need for these.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#3 - 2011-10-26 19:02:12 UTC
Anachronic wrote:
caliis wrote:
This has been mentioned before but ill bring it up again. new mining ships. yep half of you are leaving but ill try and present it in a different point of view. Mining is a major career as i have mentioned before. the general idea of mining is that it is fly to belt mine fly back, in fact that is all it has ever been solo, in a group it is so much more, as professional miners know already.

Now to my point and suggestion, T3 mining ships. They exist for combat, there is a whole skill set for these ship's subsystems. why not give other areas access to this level (finally). EVE ship engineers are awesome and powerful beings that exist outside of time and space, but awesome power is not absolute power, they have limited themselves in their endeavors to the destruction of the universe, why? The power of creation is more instilling of greatness then destruction's footnotes in history.

This destruction is a major part of day to day life in null sec, and everywhere for the most part. these powerful entities that position the development of ships have constantly pushed the level and scope of devastation to newer and grander heights then before. however this is to the exclusion of the greater force of creation. without the means to creation destruction has nothing to destroy and no tools to destroy with. so to improve the devastating force and focus they have on destruction give creation the means to feed this need in the universe.

by providing newer and better ships, T3 mining ships. ( or even just more T1 and T2 ships with more function), the lesser creators who build the universe through the vastly inferior means to the method of destruction can then supply more to the meat grinder we call home in EVE. T3 Ships for industry please...



I read the first paragraph and stopped...I will answer why there shouldn't be T3 mining ships from that. there is no need for them. T3 combat ships serve the role of versatility at the Cruiser level, but there isn't enough need to have a T3 mining ship. You can mine ore or ice...or you can boost but that's it. Why the hell do you need a ship that would cost probably in the order of half a bil to make for some non existant versatility. All of the roles in the mining world are already filled by multiple ships. there is no need for these.


^ this.

However, I will suggest that a T3 subsystem for Gas Cloud harvesting could be useful...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Mad Shopper
Mad Industrial Consortium
#4 - 2011-10-26 19:16:41 UTC
Any new ship would need utility rather then increased yield. Any utility would come at the cost of yield, makeing the ship all but unused because it won't make as much money as a hulk.

I'm tempted to make a post that has answers to all these commonly asked question/sugestion, and just link it in every thread like this.
caliis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-10-26 19:39:13 UTC
The same can be said about combat ships Anachronic "all of the roles are already filled". so perhaps they shouldn't be releasing the new BCs based on your logic. people are excited about new ships to fly miners should have the same experience and I'm sorry but all the roles aren't filled for miners, only the high sec ones.

Example: one new ship could be pvp mining vessel. a ship that can mine reasonably and is not an easy kill and could possibly even kill you :) a battle ship with an ore hold that can fit a single strip miner, and i already know your response about it.

or even more insane,
a covert ops miner, that can mine while cloaked. and i know your response to that one too but it would allow for low sec mining. since you probably haven't read this far being as reactive as you stated in your post ill assume your gone but if your not the balance is i didn't say it could warp while cloaked.

Anyways that is a few possibility, whether or not you agree. don't be so close minded. at least i took the time to completely read your post even if it doesn't make sense to think there can't be new possibilities for mining and industrial vessels, since the same can be said for combat. miners have fleets also, We just shoot rocks not people who can't fight back.

hmmm interesting mad shopper i agree but, that is the suggestion for T3, why couldn't the subsystems allow for a better miner or a more utility, depending on the owner's preference and need just like T3 combat ships. T3 have a lot of utility for combat why cant that be applied for mining with the same pliability. (boy i'm just asking for it lol)

As always thanks for the responses guys.
caliis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-10-26 19:50:14 UTC
i just saw there is a T3 mining ship thread already, ill concede to that forum on this since its already on the same topic. i still like my point of view though :P
BornToDieAnotherDay
Tarazed Technology
#7 - 2011-10-26 20:42:19 UTC
caliis wrote:
Stuff about new mining ships


Mad Shopper wrote:
Any new ship would need utility rather then increased yield. Any utility would come at the cost of yield, makeing the ship all but unused because it won't make as much money as a hulk.



Basically, miners will ALWAYS do what makes them the most money with respect to the risk involved. I will agree that your suggestions sound interesting, but it just won't become a reality.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2011-10-27 18:23:45 UTC
Mad Shopper wrote:
Any new ship would need utility rather then increased yield. Any utility would come at the cost of yield, makeing the ship all but unused because it won't make as much money as a hulk.

I'm tempted to make a post that has answers to all these commonly asked question/sugestion, and just link it in every thread like this.



Utility could easily come at the cost of longer training times, it doesn't have to be on the ship itself.

Although I really can't think of any utility beyond a bigger cargo hold, though that would be a nice boon for solo miners. Not everyone can afford, or even wants, a second account for hauling.
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-10-28 02:02:47 UTC
There is clearly a need for mining ships with better tanking abilities. With the latest bout of goon terrorism it only makes sense that the good people or ORE would hard at work making ships that are more of a challenge to destroy.
Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries
#10 - 2011-10-28 04:23:54 UTC
There have been many, man threads proposing new mining ships, all of them burned to the ground with either reason or trollage.


/forever mining in a Hulk Sad

95% of the players are loving EVE, the other 5%? On the forums.
Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries
#11 - 2011-10-28 04:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Joshua Aivoras
Double post, oopsies

95% of the players are loving EVE, the other 5%? On the forums.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#12 - 2011-10-28 04:41:27 UTC
Actually, I like the idea of a new mining barge/exhumer... one which has turret/launcher hardpoints, in addition to mining turrets. :)

Or perhaps an exhumer that can fit large smartbombs and multiple bomb launchers? lol....

More tank? Meh. That sort of thing gets boring fast and can always be beat by more alpha.
pussnheels
Viziam
#13 - 2011-10-28 11:46:44 UTC
yes miners could do with a serious change , aslong it isn't a new mining barge with greater yield and bigger cargo space , because that will only serve the bots

And talking about t3 mining ships i would rather see a expansion on t3 subsystems for industrials that fit on the current line of t3 ships to make them more likely tosuccesful tank the battleship spawns you find in null sec or sometimes low sec without them outmining the hulk

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Page Starcaster
Blue Angels Mining Company
#14 - 2011-10-28 16:56:04 UTC
The only way I can see T3 mining ships working is if it was actually just a mining subsystem option for T3 Battleships.

If you stop and think about it, T1 battleships already make good mining ships. the Rokh can out mine a retriever.

I envision 3 things for T3 battleships other than the obvious stuff that would be similar to what the T3 cruisers have now.

1. would be a mining subsystem - this would give the T3 battleship a yield close to what Hulks currently have.(currently only the HULK and Covetor can out mine a Rokh with a full rack of T2 mining lasers and maxed mining upgrades in the lows) So it is not an absurd idea to have a T3 battleship to nearly match the Performance of a hulk with the tank of a T3 battleship.

2. would be a cargo hold expander - this would take the same subsystem slot as the defensive modules reducing the value of the tank but still far exceeding the tank available on industrial ships. make the cargo expansion big enough to fill the hole between industrial's and freighters.( I know the orca kinda fills this but a T3 BS with cargo conversion could make a good null sec hauler)

3. should be a jump drive subsystem. - this would be similar to the jump drive used currently by black ops battleships.

With these three subsystems added to the standard systems that will be scaled up from the T3 cruisers T3 battleships could have the versatility of filling any role currently filled by any T1 or T2 battleship. using the cargo expander subsystem with the jump drive would effectively make a mini jump freighter. using the mining subsystem with either the cargo expander or defensive subsystems would give you the option of a T3 mining ship with either a huge cargo hold or a very tough tank. both would have good applications. Throw in the short range jump drive and you can now access area's of low sec and null sec without worrying about gate camps.

The only thing that you would expect from a T3 mining ship that this would not cover is the increased yield. But I see no way to make that work. Putting a new ship in game with greater mining yield than the HULK will only make that ship the new must have for miners and would soon result in even lower mineral prices. The only way I can see to fix the low income of mining is to nerf reprocessing and drop the rogue drone minerals from the loot tables. Far to much of the minerals in this game come from combat characters reprocessing meta 1 &2 modules and refining drone minerals. combat characters should not have any influence over the income of miners other than through actual combat by attacking them while they mine. Let the combat characters have there bounties, and loot, but leave the collection of minerals to the miners. Why shouls a combat character easily earn 50+ mil per hour while a solo miner can barely hit 10 mil per hour. I don't think mining should ba as good as ratting or mission running, but it should be a little better than it is now. By eliminating reducing the mineral income to the market by removing drone minerals, and nerfing reprocessing, the market value of minerals will naturally re-balance leveling off a little closer to where it should be to give miners a little better income. But adding a new mining ship with a signifcantly higher yield will only make things worse.