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Fix Null > Nerf Hi

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#901 - 2013-03-05 08:06:19 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

So you are selling lower quality equipment at a cheaper price but either way around they still own the equipment and are not renting it.


No, selling that stuff to manufacturers in China who in turn are used by western world to produce without owning the production facilities. A la Apple. End result, despite they don't own the facilities, those western brands produce stuff at lower price than other brands can do while owning the whole production chain with no third party.

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#902 - 2013-03-05 08:50:00 UTC
Arcosian wrote:
My thoughts for fixing null:

1. Lower cost to build outposts and allow them to be built on any planet in nullsec systems.

Yeah that's what we need! EVEN MORE SOV GRIND.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#903 - 2013-03-05 09:52:37 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Arcosian wrote:
My thoughts for fixing null:

1. Lower cost to build outposts and allow them to be built on any planet in nullsec systems.

Yeah that's what we need! EVEN MORE SOV GRIND.


Outposts aren't related to sov.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#904 - 2013-03-05 10:17:12 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

So you are selling lower quality equipment at a cheaper price but either way around they still own the equipment and are not renting it.


No, selling that stuff to manufacturers in China who in turn are used by western world to produce without owning the production facilities. A la Apple. End result, despite they don't own the facilities, those western brands produce stuff at lower price than other brands can do while owning the whole production chain with no third party.

So those companies Apple for example are not producing anything are they? They are on selling goods manufactured by another, just like a trader in EvE and my proposal will not at all affect traders in EvE.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#905 - 2013-03-05 13:40:26 UTC
Tesal wrote:

I have nothing better to do with my isk than place bounties. Its my favorite thing.

*edit. I decided to round up. Check your bounty.

*your alliance too.


Oh noes Shocked I guess we better disband the alliance and quit eve.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#906 - 2013-03-05 13:59:50 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Malcanis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Arcosian wrote:
My thoughts for fixing null:

1. Lower cost to build outposts and allow them to be built on any planet in nullsec systems.

Yeah that's what we need! EVEN MORE SOV GRIND.


Outposts aren't related to sov.

...
Yes, yes they are...
Quote:
An online TCU is invulnerable unless both of the following conditions are fulfilled:


  • Sovereignty Blockade Units are anchored and onlined at more than 50% of the gates in the system.
  • The sovereign entity over the system does not possess an Outpost/Conquerable Station nor an online Industrial Hub within the system.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide#Claiming_Sovereignty

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tesal
#907 - 2013-03-05 18:31:39 UTC
Arcosian wrote:
Tesal wrote:

I have nothing better to do with my isk than place bounties. Its my favorite thing.

*edit. I decided to round up. Check your bounty.

*your alliance too.


Oh noes Shocked I guess we better disband the alliance and quit eve.


Good idea.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#908 - 2013-03-05 19:00:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
But industry? The risk isn't defined by the same rules. Industrially highsec is more dangerous by role than in null.
LMAO! LolLolLol
Eh, no. Not even close.

When was the last time someone killed all your S&I jobs, took your production slots, denied you access to all your blueprints and stockpiled materials? In fact, could you provide an example of this supposed higher danger in high?

Oh, and the risks are most certainly defined by the same rules: what are you investing? What are the opportunities and probabilities of that investment coming to naught? The space you're in and the activity you're engaging in does not change how risk is defined.

Quote:
Which brings us back to full circle.... using some sort of risk versus reward to increase nullsec capabilities for industry is a fallacy.
…but you just said that the risks were higher in high, but if risk vs. reward is a fallacy, it means we can safely remove all that reward from high since the “higher risks” (hahahah… sorry, can't say that with a straight face) are not really meant to be rewarded anyway.

Quote:
In history when did that ever happen?
Oh, pretty much from the industrial revolution and onwards. And no, it doesn't change how effort should be rewarded in this game…



Industry is defined by the market, not combat. Surely you know this. When did you need to fly to make anything? Or would you rather compare JF kills to highsec frieghter kills?

Investing? We all know that's laughable. The same nullsec industrialist got his stuff from highsec.. and why? Price. Your ilk say you are forced to go to highsec because it's smarter to. You aren't forced, it's just a wiser choice. Even at the cost of using that same JF to transport goods from highsec to null. Your own "risk vs reward" argument just defeated you at that point. Because it's SAFER to get your stuff out to null, because COSTwise, it makes more sense. From a logistics and cost pov.

Which I am not arguing. I don't think null should have equal (I hate that word in a paper rock scissor game) but it should have something SPECIFIC to the region, so it in fact does need rework. You know, like null should be able to build capitals and high shouldn't....

Just using risk vs reward as some sort of justification is... not the right way to try to convince anyone otherwise. Especially when you have people who are using sov as "political empire building" and how combat is just for "lowsec".

EDIT-Combat does have a factor in regards to manufacturing, but as a demand, not an effect.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#909 - 2013-03-05 20:30:01 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Arcosian wrote:
My thoughts for fixing null:

1. Lower cost to build outposts and allow them to be built on any planet in nullsec systems.

Yeah that's what we need! EVEN MORE SOV GRIND.

Outposts aren't related to sov.

Yes, yes they are...
Quote:
An online TCU is invulnerable unless both of the following conditions are fulfilled:

  • Sovereignty Blockade Units are anchored and onlined at more than 50% of the gates in the system.
  • The sovereign entity over the system does not possess an Outpost/Conquerable Station nor an online Industrial Hub within the system.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide#Claiming_Sovereignty

Our FORTRESS DEKLEIN has outposts everywhere, so more structures for you to shoot if you decide to take the bold step of attacking us.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?