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a way to help make low sec new player friendly(ish)

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Eisen Kern
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-03-05 03:09:14 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Lowsec is an important part of understanding the dynamics in Eve. Being able to run camps and evade pirates while in that space is something people need to learn.

Why not learn evading pirates in .3 and .4, and gate camps + pirates in .1 and .2?
Disastro
Wrecking Shots
#42 - 2013-03-05 03:10:45 UTC
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
following sevatars suggestion i will attempt to make this more clear and less trollish

ii suggest that the gate guns be scaled similar to concord in high sec

.4-.3 should be extremely difficult to tank the gate guns without commiting a sizable and costly force to do so.

however, .2-.1 should be easy to tank allowing easy set up with relativly low cost ships.

i say this so there are fewer choke point camps and so new players trying to dip their toes into PVP don't get blapped the second the enter low sec. i believe it would allow for more FW as people would go for plexes more often without fearing running into gate camps as often when attempting to enter FW space.


constructive comments (for or against) only pleaseBig smile


The only interesting thing about low sec is the possibility for pvp. Your suggestions would make low sec not worth visiting. Gate camps are part of low sec life. PVP is part of the eve experience. Carebears who wish to avoid all forms of pvp should stay in high sec and hide. Even then pvp will likely find them.
Ryu Ibarazaki
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-03-05 03:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryu Ibarazaki
To the OP, Low Sec is awesome good times and CCP isn't needed to dull the sharp corners.

At BNI we have fresh characters getting into fleets and having a blast in our system all the time. Just dive in there and learn, getting blown up is part of the process. It's fun. With some fairly basic training on insta-warps, insta-docks, and getting past gatecamps, you can get your strut back. And still be getting exploded, which again is nothing to be afraid of.

These other people you called pirates and trolls, don't write them off because they aren't saying what you want to hear. They're trying to help you. I'm sure you're a good dude but I think that High Sec mentality has gotten into you. Shake it off and be brave yo.

7o
Prekaz
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#44 - 2013-03-05 03:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Prekaz
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

This thought betrays a profound lack of understanding and consideration for the game as it was designed. The lessons that I learned in lowsec; how to travel unseen, how to make a little ISK go a long way, when to talk to people and when not to, how to really look for ISK rather than follow the herd, those skills are some of the most important that you can learn in Eve.


...are you roleplaying right now? It seems like you would have to be, because what you just described is, in practice, about five minutes worth of learnin'.

Quote:

Most players don't go there because they don't want to play the game as designed, they want easy rewards or whatever. That's fine, but don't make the assumption that Low is not relevant. That is just a failure to understand certain aspects of the game on your part.


Most players don't go there because its position on the risk/reward curve makes it idiotic to go there for any organic purpose. Looking for someone to shoot? Fine, give it a crack, maybe you'll have some fun.

Looking to do, literally, anything else? You can do it better, safer, faster, and more profitably somewhere else.

Finally, a word on reading comprehension. I described it as the LEAST relevant block of space. Be a doll and tell me which other block of space is less relevant than low-sec.
Prekaz
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#45 - 2013-03-05 03:15:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Prekaz
double
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-03-05 03:18:21 UTC
Eisen Kern wrote:
/signed

Gate camps are not fun from either perspective imo. It's also illogical that the large empires wouldn't at least protect the gates closer to their systems. Low sec shouldn't mean virtually no sec, a graduated reduction in gate gun effectiveness also matches the reduced reaction speed of concord in high sec.

I'm confident this would get a lot more noobs into low sec as the gate camps are the main problem. You can deal with people scanning you down by paying attention. You can't get your mission fit battleship through a gatecamp.



precisely, and if choke points are being camped, going around isn't allways an options

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-03-05 03:23:58 UTC
Disastro wrote:
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
following sevatars suggestion i will attempt to make this more clear and less trollish

ii suggest that the gate guns be scaled similar to concord in high sec

.4-.3 should be extremely difficult to tank the gate guns without commiting a sizable and costly force to do so.

however, .2-.1 should be easy to tank allowing easy set up with relativly low cost ships.

i say this so there are fewer choke point camps and so new players trying to dip their toes into PVP don't get blapped the second the enter low sec. i believe it would allow for more FW as people would go for plexes more often without fearing running into gate camps as often when attempting to enter FW space.


constructive comments (for or against) only pleaseBig smile


The only interesting thing about low sec is the possibility for pvp. Your suggestions would make low sec not worth visiting. Gate camps are part of low sec life. PVP is part of the eve experience. Carebears who wish to avoid all forms of pvp should stay in high sec and hide. Even then pvp will likely find them.


did i say anything about getting rid of PVP? no i did not, i suggested a way to force pirates into actual, dynamic pvp, intead of sitting in place and insta-locking/ insta blapping people looking for real PVP.

gate camping=/=PVP

when you can't shoot back becuase you're insta popped, it's slaughter, not PVP

i made this thread in an effort to generate ideas about forcing some real PVP back into low sec

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#48 - 2013-03-05 03:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Eisen Kern wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Lowsec is an important part of understanding the dynamics in Eve. Being able to run camps and evade pirates while in that space is something people need to learn.

Why not learn evading pirates in .3 and .4, and gate camps + pirates in .1 and .2?


One of the things that makes lowsec interesting, and really playable, is the low density of players further in. As things now stand lowsec has the fewest number of systems in the game. I would love to see a greater range of security myself; I think that faction police should not patrol .5-.6, and on the other side that more opportunities for docking in -.4 and below should exist. Maybe a secondary type of aggression flag that governed the use of ECM and bumping and that did not cause Concord to engage.

I'm actually all for those types of changes; but the systems should come from high and null, not from low. It is already too crowded there.

The other thing is the gate guns are pretty strong in .4 already, and they get progressively weaker as you go in. As it stands now they can be tanked with BC's and smaller ships for a limited time. Increasing that requirement to BS's with some logi or just Sebo'd Procurors wont change the current dynamic all that much. Gate campers camp because they like it, they will continue to do so even if the guns are bigger.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#49 - 2013-03-05 03:37:50 UTC
Prekaz wrote:
Be a doll and tell me which other block of space is less relevant than low-sec.

Jove.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2013-03-05 03:39:09 UTC
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
did i say anything about getting rid of PVP? no i did not, i suggested a way to force pirates into actual, dynamic pvp, intead of sitting in place and insta-locking/ insta blapping people looking for real PVP.

gate camping=/=PVP

when you can't shoot back becuase you're insta popped, it's slaughter, not PVP

i made this thread in an effort to generate ideas about forcing some real PVP back into low sec

Catching ratters and miners in a belt isn't pvp either.

Ganking isn't pvp either.


We need to remove all these "non-pvp" things.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Theangryhobo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-03-05 03:43:16 UTC
But.....if we take out the non PvP things, how will we ever support those who PvP?

Also, I was tl;dr, but from what I gather of this thread, someone was crying cause EVE is hard? Surprise.

.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#52 - 2013-03-05 03:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Prekaz wrote:


...are you roleplaying right now? It seems like you would have to be, because what you just described is, in practice, about five minutes worth of learnin'.



I agree, its not that hard. Longer than 5 minutes, but nothing that can't be figured out as is, no reason for a change.

Prekaz wrote:

Most players don't go there because its position on the risk/reward curve makes it idiotic to go there for any organic purpose. Looking for someone to shoot? Fine, give it a crack, maybe you'll have some fun.

Looking to do, literally, anything else? You can do it better, safer, faster, and more profitably somewhere else.



The game has more to offer than what can be quantified with a risk v reward breakdown on a spreadsheet. Some players don't see the value of market trading, should we nerf the complexity and challenge of the market to make it more accessible for them?

Prekaz wrote:

Finally, a word on reading comprehension. I described it as the LEAST relevant block of space. Be a doll and tell me which other block of space is less relevant than low-sec.



I'm going to explain this not because I am a "doll" but because I am right and you are not: Lowsec as it stands may well be the least relevant place to you and many others, that fact speaks volumes about who you are as a player, but in no way does it support the idea that lowsec needs to be changed.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#53 - 2013-03-05 03:46:21 UTC
Let's make PVP more difficult, that sure will help the newbies, particularly the ones looking to get into PVP, don't worry this idea doesn't have anything to do with me wanting t be able to haul through lowsec without worrying about it being camped or anything.
Prekaz
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#54 - 2013-03-05 03:52:55 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

I'm going to explain this not because I am a "doll" but because I am right and you are not: Lowsec as it stands may well be the least relevant place to you and many others, that fact speaks volumes about who you are as a player, but in no way does it support the idea that lowsec needs to be changed.


Lol. "Yeah, yeah, it's the least relevant but... I'm still TOTES right!" Lol

You're probably the only person who thinks nothing needs to be changed about low-sec. Reasonable people can disagree about what needs to be changed, but hey, I guess someone needs to play the radical conservative.
Eisen Kern
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-03-05 04:06:51 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
The other thing is the gate guns are pretty strong in .4 already, and they get progressively weaker as you go in. As it stands now they can be tanked with BC's and smaller ships for a limited time. Increasing that requirement to BS's with some logi or just Sebo'd Procurors wont change the current dynamic all that much. Gate campers camp because they like it, they will continue to do so even if the guns are bigger.

You didn't really address what I said but *shrugs*. It'd be pretty easy to make it impossible to camp .4 gates (hello concord style damage) and very hard to camp .3's. And if they want to bring 20 people in Logis to camp the .3 hey they deserve to be able to camp it : p It could be done easily, the question is would it be better for the game.

Getting more people into low sec is an admirable goal imo. Why not have noobs contend with pirates in .4 and .3, and pirates and gate camps in .2 and .1? Much better way to train more carebears up for pvp, not to mention more logical from the empires standpoint.

If you want more space in low sec hey I'd agree - much of null is a deserted wasteland. It makes sense that the empires would be expanding into null.

Quote:
One of the things that makes lowsec interesting, and really playable, is the low density of players further in.

...
Quote:
It is already too crowded there.

These statements seem at odds with each other.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#56 - 2013-03-05 04:10:39 UTC
Calathorn Virpio wrote:


did i say anything about getting rid of PVP? no i did not, i suggested a way to force pirates into actual, dynamic pvp, intead of sitting in place and insta-locking/ insta blapping people looking for real PVP.

gate camping=/=PVP

when you can't shoot back becuase you're insta popped, it's slaughter, not PVP

i made this thread in an effort to generate ideas about forcing some real PVP back into low sec


The kind of PvP you seem to be after is available all over Eve right now, with no need to make changes. Join R-V-B or FW, wardec someone, challenge someone to a duel, go bump indy's until they get mad enough to fight, go into W-space, scan your way into deep null through a worm hole, send nasty letters and write insulting graffiti on cans about other corps so they war dec you, fleet up and go tear down the gate camps. All of these options are available right now, in the game as it currently stands. Go get some.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#57 - 2013-03-05 04:29:34 UTC
Eisen Kern wrote:


Getting more people into low sec is an admirable goal imo. Why not have noobs contend with pirates in .4 and .3, and pirates and gate camps in .2 and .1? Much better way to train more carebears up for pvp, not to mention more logical from the empires standpoint.

If you want more space in low sec hey I'd agree - much of null is a deserted wasteland. It makes sense that the empires would be expanding into null.

Quote:
One of the things that makes lowsec interesting, and really playable, is the low density of players further in.

...
Quote:
It is already too crowded there.

These statements seem at odds with each other.


Lowsec has gotten more populated, it is currently too crowded, fewer people would be better for lowsec.

Part of the reason these threads get so much resistance is that they are usually started and supported by people who have little experience in low. Once you and the OP have lived there for a few months then you can come onto the forums and explain why it would be so much nicer if there were more people there and present all your great ideas for getting them there. Until then you are just threatening a place that is enjoyed by a great many people in its current incarnation.

If you want to explore New Eden then do so, hop in a ship and fly all around. You will get blown up, but when you do you will go and read about the how and the why and you will be better equipped to avoid that situation in the future. But the first step is not here on the forum, its back in Eve.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#58 - 2013-03-05 04:33:26 UTC
Prekaz wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

I'm going to explain this not because I am a "doll" but because I am right and you are not: Lowsec as it stands may well be the least relevant place to you and many others, that fact speaks volumes about who you are as a player, but in no way does it support the idea that lowsec needs to be changed.


Lol. "Yeah, yeah, it's the least relevant but... I'm still TOTES right!" Lol

You're probably the only person who thinks nothing needs to be changed about low-sec. Reasonable people can disagree about what needs to be changed, but hey, I guess someone needs to play the radical conservative.


You can take your pod and go, your implants do not appear to be worth more than my ammo.
auraofblade
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-03-05 04:33:41 UTC
Pah, EVE gate camps are incredibly noob friendly compared to basically every other portal system in MMOs. Try ACE Online, where if a gate is being camped you're dead before you have a chance to load. At least here you get to stay stealthed in a location your campers don't instantly know, and have time to plan a way out of your mess. If push comes to shove, just fly smaller ships that can align/accelerate faster and have a smaller signature radius so they can't lock you before you warp.
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-03-05 05:30:38 UTC
ZionTCD is a Dustcorp, could it be that you are just trying to make your own orbital bombardments a bit safer rather than *helping Noobs*?

Forget about Low Sec, come down to HED if you really want that *real PVP* you mention. Big smile

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.