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I normally dont

Author
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#1 - 2013-03-04 15:54:56 UTC
But in this case I would pod kill this person.

A staff member at an independent living facility in Bakersfiled,California called 911 when a woman collapsed. The 911 operator pleaded with the woman on the phone to begin CPR on the dying resident,but she refused.

The 911 tape is shocking to listen to. An 87-year-old woman collapsed. A woman,claiming to be a nurse,refuses to even try to give the woman CPR because of the facility’s policies.

I hope I get podded before I end up in one of these freaking places. Evil
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#2 - 2013-03-04 16:25:50 UTC
If you want to be angry at somebody, be angry at the person who uses their own dead parent or grandparent to attempt to hit up these places with frivolous lawsuits after the latter are deceased, which in turn causes the company to create policies to cover their ass. Don't be angry at the lady who is doing her job and who wants to continue doing it regardless of the outcome.

If you don't want this to happen to you, don't check yourself into a retirement home before reading its guidelines.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

Xenuria
#3 - 2013-03-04 17:33:38 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
But in this case I would pod kill this person.

A staff member at an independent living facility in Bakersfiled,California called 911 when a woman collapsed. The 911 operator pleaded with the woman on the phone to begin CPR on the dying resident,but she refused.

The 911 tape is shocking to listen to. An 87-year-old woman collapsed. A woman,claiming to be a nurse,refuses to even try to give the woman CPR because of the facility’s policies.

I hope I get podded before I end up in one of these freaking places. Evil


Maybe they had a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate), I know I have one.
Random McNally
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#4 - 2013-03-04 17:39:51 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
But in this case I would pod kill this person.

A staff member at an independent living facility in Bakersfiled,California called 911 when a woman collapsed. The 911 operator pleaded with the woman on the phone to begin CPR on the dying resident,but she refused.

The 911 tape is shocking to listen to. An 87-year-old woman collapsed. A woman,claiming to be a nurse,refuses to even try to give the woman CPR because of the facility’s policies.

I hope I get podded before I end up in one of these freaking places. Evil


Maybe they had a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate), I know I have one.



I would bet on stupid corporate policies. Regretfully, I dont even think the health care provider/nurse would be covered by Good Sumaritan Laws.

Sometimes, this world sucks....

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Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#5 - 2013-03-04 18:20:28 UTC
Yeah, if you'd read the article she had no DNR and any person with 2 brain cells to rub together would have to assume she wanted to be given treatment.

And yeah company policy said no intervention...but I could only assume if it was their mumzy that policy would go out the window.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#6 - 2013-03-04 18:41:10 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
assume


And that is the magic word right there. Never assume anything.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#7 - 2013-03-04 19:18:03 UTC
When I finally go, Im donating my body to science so that my consciousness can be uploaded onto both the forum and the game as a new AI for the mission rats and as the ultimate forum troll.

So you see, if you strike me down, I will indeed become more powerful then you can ever imagine....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#8 - 2013-03-04 22:57:17 UTC
Depends on the circumstances, of course, but for people beyond a certain age, it might be more humane to let them Journey Onward...

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]

Weylin Ormand
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#9 - 2013-03-05 04:36:10 UTC
As a former volunteer firefighter, one topic that came up often during my training was the duty to act. Some states require by law that licensed professionals such as EMTs, doctors, NURSES etc. render aid within the scope of their abilities if able. Based on the phone conversation and my own experience as a police dispatcher, that nurse is more than able, she's just being a corporate lemming too engrossed in policy that has long ago forgotten common human morality. If she does come out of this without criminal or civil charges, she would be best off looking for a better place to work.

I mine so you can have the fuel to run your POS.

Have you thanked a miner today?

stoicfaux
#10 - 2013-03-05 05:23:51 UTC
The person in question wasn't a nurse. That was an error in the original reporting of the story. "The staffer was identified today as a resident services director, not a nurse as previously reported."

"Independent Living communities do not provide medical services, as they are not licensed to do so. In an emergency, staff will call 911 and then wait with the person in need of assistance. Glenwood Gardens is an independent living facility which, by law, is not licensed to provide medical care to any of its residents," Turner said in a statement.

But still...

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#11 - 2013-03-05 11:30:07 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
The person in question wasn't a nurse. That was an error in the original reporting of the story.



That was bugging me since the second I heard I the story. Independent Living communities, at the least the ones I've visited over the last 6 years, do not have nurses. At best they have CNA's, who in my opinion is about as medical as TSA is law enforcement. They are low wage earners who are there to help the elderly with their daily needs in more of a personal assistant fashion and many do not even have basic CPR training.

If you want actual nursing, then you take your loved one to a nursing home which runs you several more thousands of dollars a month. I transferred my grandfather to one about 2 weeks before he passed away.

Even if protocol wasn't a question, one should take into consideration the idea of performing cpr on a 87 year old lady. I don't know know about any other people here but one thing that I have noticed is that little old ladies tend to get pretty damn fragile at 87 years old. My grandmother broke her own hip just trying to get out of a chair, so I can imagine what the wrong amount of pressure to a chest can do.

But they do have protocol there to protect themselves and their employees, and it has clearly been stated that it is stated in detail to any people looking to move in. Doesn't matter at this point, I feel the damage has been done and this Director lady has been decreed as the wicked witch because people just can't differentiate from her following a policy and those who make policy. Everyone is also forgetting that this staff had to watch a little old lady die. That is not something that you simply let go of over night, or possibly ever, especially if you've spent any amount of time with that person. She has to live with that now.

This shouldn't have gone to mainstream news, and I can't help but think that the emergency service operator took it way too personally. I wouldn't be surprised if she recently had a loved one pass away at one of these places due to a similar protocol that was described to her but she ignored and is now hurt about.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

stoicfaux
#12 - 2013-03-05 13:03:41 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
This shouldn't have gone to mainstream news, and I can't help but think that the emergency service operator took it way too personally. I wouldn't be surprised if she recently had a loved one pass away at one of these places due to a similar protocol that was described to her but she ignored and is now hurt about.


It may not have been butthurt. From the article I linked:

Quote:
Dealing with a caller who won't follow directions happens routinely, he said.

"They go through this a number of times a month," he told ABCNews.com. "They give instruction over the phone (and) at times it's declined, other times it's administered."

Dispatchers are trained to persuade callers to administer first aid to a person in distress before a first responder arrives, he said.



And then there's the whole quality of life issue with cracking the ribs on an 87 year old woman. Here's one of the reader comments:
Quote:
I am an experienced RN in an ICU setting I am very familiar with the prognosis of an 87 year post cardiac/respiratory arrest. Not a very good one. It typically involves violent chest compressions, (which most 87 year old rib bones can not tolerate). This will most likely lead to a lung injury, which will then lead to chest tube. I must not forget the patient will most likely be intubated in the field also. If they survive then they will be admitted to the ICU and be kept alive by ventilators and vasoactive drips. Then if the family decides not to withdraw care, the patient will most likely get trach (incision via the trachea) and a peg (used for tube feeding via an incision in lower abdomen). I could go on and on about the downhill spiral a geriatric patient takes post cardia/respiratory arrest. The poor patient has zero quality of life, even with the best care available! Why do we as a society feel the need to keep an 87 year old alive, when clearly the family and the patient knew of the assisted living facilities's protocol of no CPR? Come on people do your research! Everyone needs to respect the families wishes for their family member!


tl;dr The issue doesn't appear as simple as we would like it to be?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#13 - 2013-03-05 13:38:35 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
This shouldn't have gone to mainstream news, and I can't help but think that the emergency service operator took it way too personally. I wouldn't be surprised if she recently had a loved one pass away at one of these places due to a similar protocol that was described to her but she ignored and is now hurt about.


It may not have been butthurt. From the article I linked:

Quote:
Dealing with a caller who won't follow directions happens routinely, he said.

"They go through this a number of times a month," he told ABCNews.com. "They give instruction over the phone (and) at times it's declined, other times it's administered."

Dispatchers are trained to persuade callers to administer first aid to a person in distress before a first responder arrives, he said.



And then there's the whole quality of life issue with cracking the ribs on an 87 year old woman. Here's one of the reader comments:
Quote:
I am an experienced RN in an ICU setting I am very familiar with the prognosis of an 87 year post cardiac/respiratory arrest. Not a very good one. It typically involves violent chest compressions, (which most 87 year old rib bones can not tolerate). This will most likely lead to a lung injury, which will then lead to chest tube. I must not forget the patient will most likely be intubated in the field also. If they survive then they will be admitted to the ICU and be kept alive by ventilators and vasoactive drips. Then if the family decides not to withdraw care, the patient will most likely get trach (incision via the trachea) and a peg (used for tube feeding via an incision in lower abdomen). I could go on and on about the downhill spiral a geriatric patient takes post cardia/respiratory arrest. The poor patient has zero quality of life, even with the best care available! Why do we as a society feel the need to keep an 87 year old alive, when clearly the family and the patient knew of the assisted living facilities's protocol of no CPR? Come on people do your research! Everyone needs to respect the families wishes for their family member!


tl;dr The issue doesn't appear as simple as we would like it to be?




So my question is if the routine gets declined often, why does this particular case stand out? The policy wasn't created over night. When you look into assisted living over nursing each company should, by law, explain clearly what they do and don't provide. The company knew the policy. The daughter, who is a RN, knew the policy. And I'm sure the elderly know the policy. Why is every one else feeling like they received a communal slap to the face?

Sensationalism.

For the second part, like I said, elderly tend to get very fragile at that age.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#14 - 2013-03-05 16:17:09 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
This shouldn't have gone to mainstream news, and I can't help but think that the emergency service operator took it way too personally. I wouldn't be surprised if she recently had a loved one pass away at one of these places due to a similar protocol that was described to her but she ignored and is now hurt about.


It may not have been butthurt. From the article I linked:

Quote:
Dealing with a caller who won't follow directions happens routinely, he said.

"They go through this a number of times a month," he told ABCNews.com. "They give instruction over the phone (and) at times it's declined, other times it's administered."

Dispatchers are trained to persuade callers to administer first aid to a person in distress before a first responder arrives, he said.



And then there's the whole quality of life issue with cracking the ribs on an 87 year old woman. Here's one of the reader comments:
Quote:
I am an experienced RN in an ICU setting I am very familiar with the prognosis of an 87 year post cardiac/respiratory arrest. Not a very good one. It typically involves violent chest compressions, (which most 87 year old rib bones can not tolerate). This will most likely lead to a lung injury, which will then lead to chest tube. I must not forget the patient will most likely be intubated in the field also. If they survive then they will be admitted to the ICU and be kept alive by ventilators and vasoactive drips. Then if the family decides not to withdraw care, the patient will most likely get trach (incision via the trachea) and a peg (used for tube feeding via an incision in lower abdomen). I could go on and on about the downhill spiral a geriatric patient takes post cardia/respiratory arrest. The poor patient has zero quality of life, even with the best care available! Why do we as a society feel the need to keep an 87 year old alive, when clearly the family and the patient knew of the assisted living facilities's protocol of no CPR? Come on people do your research! Everyone needs to respect the families wishes for their family member!


tl;dr The issue doesn't appear as simple as we would like it to be?




So my question is if the routine gets declined often, why does this particular case stand out? The policy wasn't created over night. When you look into assisted living over nursing each company should, by law, explain clearly what they do and don't provide. The company knew the policy. The daughter, who is a RN, knew the policy. And I'm sure the elderly know the policy. Why is every one else feeling like they received a communal slap to the face?

Sensationalism.

For the second part, like I said, elderly tend to get very fragile at that age.

Most probably because of the drama on the recorded call. It creates controversy, which drives page-views, which drives revenue.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#15 - 2013-03-05 17:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Micheal Dietrich
silens vesica wrote:

Most probably because of the drama on the recorded call. It creates controversy, which drives page-views, which drives revenue.



http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9net2ioNM1rdbd0qo3_250.gif

Alright then, on to the next part. The OP has informed us that he is into the whole blood for blood thing. Anyone got any ideas to pass around that would satisfy his vigilante bloodlust? I was thinking of a large dose of potassium for extreme hyperkalemia which would induce arrhythmia. Then he could make a smug call to 911 and explain that he can't give cpr.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-03-05 20:02:33 UTC
when something on the news strikes me as significant, I know it's time to take a good look at my life

TV is entertainment, you shouldn't be fooled just because a program calls itself "news"
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#17 - 2013-03-05 22:04:23 UTC
We had a similar thing at my work a few weeks back. An elderly man came in a dozen times during the day to buy exactly the same things, forgetting he's already bought them. Tried to help him home but got called back inside to get back to work, fair enough I figure. Eventualy he staggers in late at night with an open wound on his head, unable to remember where he lives.

Knowing first aid I want to help him, but again not allowed to do anything or I will be fired, the kit is downstairs and it comes to losing my job or waiting for the Ambulance to come for him.

Welcome to the suing culture of the UK, I make a mistake in doing First Aid on a 80-90 year old mans open head wound and I'm liable for the whole thing.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

stoicfaux
#18 - 2013-03-06 14:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
The story is becoming more of a non-issue: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57572724/family-ca-woman-denied-cpr-wanted-no-intervention/

Quote:
Bayless' family said she was aware that Glenwood Gardens did not offer trained medical staff, yet opted to live there anyway. "It was our beloved mother and grandmother's wish to die naturally and without any kind of life prolonging intervention," said the statement. "We understand that the 911 tape of this event has caused concern, but our family knows that mom had full knowledge of the limitations of Glenwood Gardens and is at peace."


However, comma:
Quote:
The home's parent company, Brookdale Senior Living, later said, "This incident resulted from a complete misunderstanding of our practice with regards to emergency medical care for our residents. Glenwood Gardens is conducting a full internal investigation." The company said the employee was on voluntary leave during the process.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Random McNally
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#19 - 2013-03-06 16:52:07 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
We had a similar thing at my work a few weeks back. An elderly man came in a dozen times during the day to buy exactly the same things, forgetting he's already bought them. Tried to help him home but got called back inside to get back to work, fair enough I figure. Eventualy he staggers in late at night with an open wound on his head, unable to remember where he lives.

Knowing first aid I want to help him, but again not allowed to do anything or I will be fired, the kit is downstairs and it comes to losing my job or waiting for the Ambulance to come for him.

Welcome to the suing culture of the UK, I make a mistake in doing First Aid on a 80-90 year old mans open head wound and I'm liable for the whole thing.


Wouldn't you just love to look at your boss after helping the old guy out and say, "If I get fired, my next stop will be at the local news outlet...."?

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#20 - 2013-03-06 16:54:51 UTC
The lady who was not given CPR had most indeed left a signed DNR - a Do Not Resuscitate Order, common practice and you will sign one yourself to do or not to do one, if admitted to a hospital or other care facility.

Absolutely nothing was out of order here, except media and newsroom exploitation in this Age of Dead Journalism.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882