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Crime & Punishment

 
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Suspect RR Flagging Issue (broken mechanic with workaround)
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Nova Satar
Pator Tech School
#41 - 2013-03-03 11:57:50 UTC
the only way to handle this is to treat HIGH-sec and LOW-sec as two very different things, which they are!

this isn't about trying to bring back neutral logi, the complete opposite. If you use logistics on somebody elses fight in high sec the best way to handle this is to become a suspect in local which everybody can then attack. You are interferring and must pay the consequences....

....but repping your own corpmates in LOW-sec should absolutely not be cause for a suspect flag. ESPECIALLY having been attacked by outlaws already.

  • If you rep a suspect you go suspect.
  • If you rep a neutral, you go suspect for interferance.
  • If you rep a CORPMATE, you should NOT get a suspect flag. Especially when said corpmate has just been attacked by outlaws!


    • Think of it like wartargets. Imagine if you are at War in empire, and you bring out a spider rep fleet, then as soon as an engagement happens you all go suspect for repping your corpmates against wartargets, it's the same thing! its madness!
    Nova Satar
    Pator Tech School
    #42 - 2013-03-03 12:01:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
    Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
    Nova, have you tried RRing AFTER your fleetmate engages the opponent?

    Remember, the gate campers trigger suspect as soon as they engage you in low-sec. Triggering suspect allows anyone to fight back...now if you choose to attack back, you trigger a limited engagement. See what happens if you and your fleetmates trigger the engagement before remote repping one another.

    I agree that as the defender, your RRing shouldn't trigger suspect IF all members are in the same fleet, on grid, and have limited engagements with the attacker.


    We did try this but its hard to test mid fight when already at a disadvantage! Smile

    We dont believe it works, becuase it either creates a seperate limited engagement, or it doesnt create one at all becuase the pirate hasnt shot that person back yet (too busy shooting me still)


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    B17332
    Single Barrel Securities Trust
    #43 - 2013-03-03 22:27:54 UTC
    So let's say you have a high sec mining fleet that's running a spider tank setup for shinnanigans. Also say they have drones out and they're agressive little buggers. So if someone were to come along and shoot one of the miners, receive a hit from the drones, the entire fleet would go suspect?

    Sounds like an awesome mechanic to me.
    culo duro
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #44 - 2013-03-03 22:37:55 UTC
    B17332 wrote:
    So let's say you have a high sec mining fleet that's running a spider tank setup for shinnanigans. Also say they have drones out and they're agressive little buggers. So if someone were to come along and shoot one of the miners, receive a hit from the drones, the entire fleet would go suspect?

    Sounds like an awesome mechanic to me.


    He'd just get the Criminal flag not the suspect flag i believe.

    I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
    Tah'ris Khlador
    Space Ghosts.
    Break-A-Wish Foundation
    #45 - 2013-03-04 01:51:11 UTC
    culo duro wrote:
    B17332 wrote:
    So let's say you have a high sec mining fleet that's running a spider tank setup for shinnanigans. Also say they have drones out and they're agressive little buggers. So if someone were to come along and shoot one of the miners, receive a hit from the drones, the entire fleet would go suspect?

    Sounds like an awesome mechanic to me.


    He'd just get the Criminal flag not the suspect flag i believe.


    The one whose drones aggressed would gain an LE. The rest depends on the safety settings of everyone else.

    Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
    Ynot Eyob
    Nisroc Angels
    The Obsidian Front - Reborn
    #46 - 2013-03-04 08:30:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ynot Eyob
    Cannibal Kane wrote:
    Ynot Eyob wrote:


    If they do neutral RR against someone at WAR they should be suspect flag, as they interfear in a WAR not theirs.


    Consider a limited engagement between people a mini 5 minute war. Your Logi is interfering in that little mini war as well so he goes suspect.



    Well the mini WAR your are talking about it 1 man agains maby 5??!

    Lets say we have a small 5 man fleet. 3 T1 Cruisers and 2 Logi within same corp or alliance.
    We jump into a 15 man red flashy gatecamp (Which often happens)
    Fight is on.

    Regardless the out come your logi are now valid targets to everyone in EVE. They jumpped into the fight to and is part of your mini war in a fight of 5 vs 15, and was as much a part of the fight as anyone in the fleet. Why should they be punnished just because they are logi. They should have the same timers as they guys they are repping. They should not go suspect.

    In WARs, your logi can fine do their job without going suspect.

    Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
    Nova Satar
    Pator Tech School
    #47 - 2013-03-04 10:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Satar
    B17332 wrote:
    So let's say you have a high sec mining fleet that's running a spider tank setup for shinnanigans. Also say they have drones out and they're agressive little buggers. So if someone were to come along and shoot one of the miners, receive a hit from the drones, the entire fleet would go suspect?

    Sounds like an awesome mechanic to me.


    Im not sure how the safety settings work if the reps are already running. It might just deactivate your remote reps as it shouldn't allow you to rep the person if on green, but as you were already repping him it might not, in whch case yes your whole mining fleet would go suspect becuase you've interferred with a "limited enagement" between the ganker and the miner getting ganked.

    This is precisely my issue. CCP seem to think limited engagements offer some sort of honourable and mutual enagement, but if you are attacked by gankers, or pirates, or existing suspects and simply want to defend yourselves through IN-CORP logistics, you can't.
    Nova Satar
    Pator Tech School
    #48 - 2013-03-04 10:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Satar
    Ynot Eyob wrote:
    Cannibal Kane wrote:
    Ynot Eyob wrote:


    If they do neutral RR against someone at WAR they should be suspect flag, as they interfear in a WAR not theirs.


    Consider a limited engagement between people a mini 5 minute war. Your Logi is interfering in that little mini war as well so he goes suspect.



    Well the mini WAR your are talking about it 1 man agains maby 5??!

    Lets say we have a small 5 man fleet. 3 T1 Cruisers and 2 Logi within same corp or alliance.
    We jump into a 15 man red flashy gatecamp (Which often happens)
    Fight is on.

    Regardless the out come your logi are now valid targets to everyone in EVE. They jumpped into the fight to and is part of your mini war in a fight of 5 vs 15, and was as much a part of the fight as anyone in the fleet. Why should they be punnished just because they are logi. They should have the same timers as they guys they are repping. They should not go suspect.

    In WARs, your logi can fine do their job without going suspect.


    Correct, as soon as you jump in you will all need to set your safety to yellow straight away, even though you are fighting OUTLAWS, you will need to go suspect to do so. its absolutely ridiculous.

    Logisitcs users should most definitely adopt aggro timers and be valid targets for your enemy but them going suspect is pointless and stupid in low-sec in these circumstances

    Its a mechanic that CCP are being too lazy to address, because it involves some serious thought. The tricky part is that logistics should go suspect when interfering in somebody elses fight, but not when you are working with your own corp/ally against existing suspects or criminals. CCP need to make a distinction between what is interference and what is simply pvp. Repping a corpmate who is being attacked by outlaws is NOT interference ffs
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