These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Can this type of behaviour warrent a ban?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-03-03 23:50:51 UTC
deeks87 deacon wrote:
OK, lets talk hypothetical for a minute. Lets say i was some rich kid with nothing to do and i wanted to ruin the game for a lot of new players, i would simply go around with a ton of alts and destroy every new corp i could get into. i would continue this behavior until those players rage quited the game. and then CCP would be forced to fix this.I'm not saying remove the ability for corporate espionage I'm just saying there should be measures in place to stop new guys like myself from getting this done to them.


There are players who do nothing but that for their entire career in EvE. They aren't spoiled rich kids. This is how they choose to play.

Look up "Safari".

Smart players HTFU, and learn to deal with the issue.

( click on the link and get some wisdom from the CCP staff )

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#42 - 2013-03-03 23:53:10 UTC
deeks87 deacon wrote:
OK, lets talk hypothetical for a minute. Lets say i was some rich kid with nothing to do and i wanted to ruin the game for a lot of new players, i would simply go around with a ton of alts and destroy every new corp i could get into. i would continue this behavior until those players rage quited the game. and then CCP would be forced to fix this.I'm not saying remove the ability for corporate espionage I'm just saying there should be measures in place to stop new guys like myself from getting this done to them.


You are confused about the nature of the game, EvE is a ruthless sandbox mmo-rpg game, and it's been working just fine for the last 10 years.

The Tears Must Flow
deeks87 deacon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-03-03 23:57:31 UTC
[/quote]

You are confused about the nature of the game, EvE is a ruthless sandbox mmo-rpg game, and it's been working just fine for the last 10 years.[/quote]

Like i said i accept that and I'm all for that ,i learned from this and I'm glad it happened sooner rather than later. However i just don't like the fact that it drives some players to rage quit, and if it is working fine why are CCP adding patches to make high sec safer ?and why is concord even there is it's a %100 ruthless sandbox like it is said to be.

Those who forget the past, are destined to revisit it! use us for all your insurance needs @  http://igc-eve-online-insurance.webs.com
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2013-03-03 23:58:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Psychotic Monk
Zedrik Cayne wrote:

Oh, so everyone needs to have ECM fit or fly a set of ECM drones? How are you 'competing' with the folks you awox? Don't pretend that it is some competitive drive except the competition between you and your compatriots as to who can extract the biggest tears.

With limited aggression on tap, the free fire on corpmates has outlived its usefulness. Seeing as the only use for the mechanic now is safari work. It should probably be abolished.


Well, there's two seperate discussions in this, so I'll do a quick rundown on my thoughts in both things:

Ways to stop a safari:
-Detect it via previous corp kills, detected either with a kb or through the api
-If not previous corp kills, you can also check who their seed money came from, unless they actually spent the time to grind it on that toon themselves.
-Notice in the fleet composition window that someone appears to be bringing a combat ship to a mining op
-Ask to see their fit
-Out tank them
-Corpmates (who I'm sure also live in the neighbourhood, right?) can show up in an ECM boat or a logi
-Neutrals can show up in a logi
-Anyone can have some ECM drones handy
-Put your new recruits into a seperate corp in the alliance to limit what they can shoot.
If talking about a mining op:
-exhumers that are being attacked can store their ships inside the orca to avoid death
-The Orca can easily be fit to tank a ton for a very long ass time. At least long enough for a respose to be generated.

Some of the detection methods can be defeated, but often aren't, and using them in combination will almost always catch the safari dude. And even if you don't detect them, there's many ways to defeat them.

And you say that the mechanic only has one purpose but... so? Many mechanics only have one purpose. Salvage drones only have the purpose of salvaging. Salvaging is not any more of a worthy game mechanic than awoxing. And that logic also applies to suicide ganking. You're assuming that mechanics that allow ship violence in highsec somehow aren't worthy?

Violence is a central feature of this game. And the defender already gets to set up all the hoops that an aggressor has to jump through. Just because they fail to set up any hoops doesn't mean that they should have the EHP on their barges buffed.

'Badly' is not a playstyle we need to be protecting.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#45 - 2013-03-04 00:05:18 UTC
deeks87 deacon wrote:

Like i said i accept that and I'm all for that ,i learned from this and I'm glad it happened sooner rather than later. However i just don't like the fact that it drives some players to rage quit, and if it is working fine why are CCP adding patches to make high sec safer ?and why is concord even there is it's a %100 ruthless sandbox like it is said to be.


CONCORD does not prevent crime. They see to it that actions have a price. Attack outside of a wardec or a corp, and your ship will be neuted, scrammed, ecm'ed and destroyed up to 10 seconds or so from the first shot. This is an amazingly fast response time. Despite this, we are able to blow up miners in highsec for mining without one of our permits.

All CONCORD does is make predators in highsec plan carefully. They prevent nothing. We nuked another Orca in the Halaima area for mining without a permit today. We did it with cheap destroyers. The non-compliant miner lost $780M ISK worth of stuff for refusing to pay for a 10M ISK permit.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2013-03-04 00:14:09 UTC
deeks87 deacon wrote:
OK, lets talk hypothetical for a minute. Lets say i was some rich kid with nothing to do and i wanted to ruin the game for a lot of new players, i would simply go around with a ton of alts and destroy every new corp i could get into. i would continue this behavior until those players rage quited the game. and then CCP would be forced to fix this.I'm not saying remove the ability for corporate espionage I'm just saying there should be measures in place to stop new guys like myself from getting this done to them.

There is a thin line between actually playing the game for fun and deliberately setting out to destroy it for others. Now I'm personal y not bothered by this i have learned from it and accepted it but I'm sure there is a lot more people who don't and leave the game.


If you apply this arguement to nullsec you would be asking that tiny corps lacking in organization, skill and material resources should be able to take space. While people argue for this, it's fairly well established that people don't deserve these things simply for showing up. They have to work for it.

Defending corps in these situations have all the power. They simply fail to use it. If you want to start a corp, the ability to protect yourself from threats, be that a safari, a wardec, or even just internal drama, is something you need to consider before you start recruiting. Nothing in this game is a god given right except the ability to log on.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Selene Nask
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2013-03-04 06:30:54 UTC
deeks87 deacon wrote:


You are confused about the nature of the game, EvE is a ruthless sandbox mmo-rpg game, and it's been working just fine for the last 10 years

Like i said i accept that and I'm all for that ,i learned from this and I'm glad it happened sooner rather than later. However i just don't like the fact that it drives some players to rage quit, and if it is working fine why are CCP adding patches to make high sec safer ?and why is concord even there is it's a %100 ruthless sandbox like it is said to be.


I have no idea whether ccp can track things like this but while I can see that things that happen in this game can make people quit it's also things like this (the harshness and risk) that attract people to the game and keep them playing. I have no interest in awoxxing myself or doing these things to people but I am a person who has played MMOs for years. I've known and read about EVE for a long time. I knew about it's rep for being harsh and unforgiving at times, about people being jerks long before I played it.

Last month there was a discussion about that giant fleet battle within a group of people I knew from elsenet and I decided to give the game a shot. The risk, the harshness compared to many other popular MMO's I've played has been downright refreshing. The people I ended up playing with here, many also long term gamers feel the same way. There are around a dozen of us and we're sticking with it because it's fun and not as 'safe' as a lot of other games.

After years of playing other games playing a game that due to my own derpiness or player actions that kick you in the butt in terms of consequences is great. I haven't had to 'think' so much about what I'm doing in game for a long time once I've gotten past learning basic mechanics. If the game wasn't like this for me and I expect other new people that feel the same I doubt I would stay after trying it out. It would just be like a lot of other MMOs except with spaceships.

Yes I can see new people trying the game and not liking it for these sorts of reasons. As people have said though this is the game and has been for 10 years. New people do come in a like it for the same reasons people end up hating it and would leave if it was changed. I know I would. Losing (and sometimes a lot) in this game is part of the game. If people don't know that before they start or accept it once they discover that's what it is like then maybe it's just not the game for them and that's okay. It's better that they quit and move on to something else they find more enjoyable.




Spheranzinne
Color of Violence
#48 - 2013-03-04 06:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Spheranzinne
why is it that the rich kid is always the bad one? i would never grief someone with less iskies than me.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2013-03-04 07:00:51 UTC
I may be rich now, but I started this life poor as dirt.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#50 - 2013-03-04 07:18:46 UTC
deeks87 deacon wrote:
Hi, first let me apologize if this is in the wrong section. I couldn't find a post about this so i decided to make a new one.
A few days ago i decided to start a new Mining and industrial corp called Khopa conglomerate,I'm no pvper never have been and most likely never will be. I simply play eve to be a industrialist and trader and enjoy the games less demanding features such as mining and trade,Now while everything was going great me and my friend where starting to recruit some like minded players to our corp to help it expand and have fun, things where going well until we ended up with a few bad apples in our corp known as corp Grievers.basically what happened was a player posing as a friendly miner/trader joined out corp and was working with us for about a day then he decided to get into a combat ship and blow the crap out of half my corps miners.

In the end he ended up costing us a pretty ISK, and that was not the end of it once we all docked at our HQ he decided to camp outside and demand ISK which we didn't give to him. we couldn't kick him either because he is in space WTF ?CCP FIX THIS ASAP, now once we did manage to boot him i spent the rest of the day reassuring my corp mates this would never happen again and we picked our self's up and carried on going about our day to day mining and such.( i realize i should have taking more care when recruiting) Not long after we recovered from this cowardly act i decided to do a massive background check into every single member of the corp (api checks ect) during which we then get another idiot who repeats and absolutely destroys almost all of our miners again , however this time most of my players leave the corp and now the corp is destroyed , the attacker mails me and says good luck recruiting because me and my friends are going to continue to burn your corp to the ground.

During the above mentioned incident my friend gets into a heated argument with this coward(on corp chat) and insults and idle threats are exchanged, my friend looses his temper admittedly he was a little out of order but he just lost a hulk and couldn't afford a new one.( so i completely understood why). following this argument my friend got an insta ban due to a stupid idle RL threat he made in the heat of the moment,

The reason for this post is to discuss and let others be wary of this type of behavior and also to see if it will ever be considered by CCP as greifing? Like i said i now feel this game has relay been ruined for me as i feel I'm being forced into pvp and most likely will never join nor create a corp again.

PS: if this is in wrong section feel free to delete or move thanks.


CCP encourage lying, stealing and backstabbing. It's what makes EVE the game it is. It's never going to be a bannable offense, you're playing the wrong type of game.

lmao at your friend resorting to real life threats and getting banned. He got owned p bad. Props to the guy who did this to you.
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#51 - 2013-03-04 07:19:46 UTC  |  Edited by: BoSau Hotim
deeks87 deacon wrote:
Hi, first let me apologize if this is in the wrong section. I couldn't find a post about this so i decided to make a new one.
A few days ago i decided to start a new Mining and industrial corp called Khopa conglomerate,I'm no pvper never have been and most likely never will be. I simply play eve to be a industrialist and trader and enjoy the games less demanding features such as mining and trade,Now while everything was going great me and my friend where starting to recruit some like minded players to our corp to help it expand and have fun, things where going well until we ended up with a few bad apples in our corp known as corp Grievers.basically what happened was a player posing as a friendly miner/trader joined out corp and was working with us for about a day then he decided to get into a combat ship and blow the crap out of half my corps miners.

In the end he ended up costing us a pretty ISK, and that was not the end of it once we all docked at our HQ he decided to camp outside and demand ISK which we didn't give to him. we couldn't kick him either because he is in space WTF ?CCP FIX THIS ASAP, now once we did manage to boot him i spent the rest of the day reassuring my corp mates this would never happen again and we picked our self's up and carried on going about our day to day mining and such.( i realize i should have taking more care when recruiting) Not long after we recovered from this cowardly act i decided to do a massive background check into every single member of the corp (api checks ect) during which we then get another idiot who repeats and absolutely destroys almost all of our miners again , however this time most of my players leave the corp and now the corp is destroyed , the attacker mails me and says good luck recruiting because me and my friends are going to continue to burn your corp to the ground.

During the above mentioned incident my friend gets into a heated argument with this coward(on corp chat) and insults and idle threats are exchanged, my friend looses his temper admittedly he was a little out of order but he just lost a hulk and couldn't afford a new one.( so i completely understood why). following this argument my friend got an insta ban due to a stupid idle RL threat he made in the heat of the moment,

The reason for this post is to discuss and let others be wary of this type of behavior and also to see if it will ever be considered by CCP as greifing? Like i said i now feel this game has relay been ruined for me as i feel I'm being forced into pvp and most likely will never join nor create a corp again.

PS: if this is in wrong section feel free to delete or move thanks.



The day I first realized how harsh of a universe EvE is was the day my corp and I were 'baptized by fire' in our first wardec. We were only a few months old and 3 older corps with experienced pvp'ers dec'd us. It was a shock, but at the same time it was exhilerating. We fought back... lost horribly, but we would not pay the ransom nor bow down to them. We got dec'd 5 more times in the next few months. We did not disband. We grew closer together and total strangers now have become who I consider to be loyal friends.

We got very lucky shortly after that. An experienced pvp'er joined our corp and started teaching us how to fit, and how to fight.

I say get your corp going again. maybe find a merc corp that can help you out. But get back in the game. Private chat me in game and let's talk about it.

This isn't greifing, it's the game and you can find a way to survive in this universe. You just need a little help my friend.

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#52 - 2013-03-04 07:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: BoSau Hotim
deeks87 deacon wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:


You are confused about the nature of the game, EvE is a ruthless sandbox mmo-rpg game, and it's been working just fine for the last 10 years.


Like i said i accept that and I'm all for that ,i learned from this and I'm glad it happened sooner rather than later. However i just don't like the fact that it drives some players to rage quit, and if it is working fine why are CCP adding patches to make high sec safer ?and why is concord even there is it's a %100 ruthless sandbox like it is said to be.



... players that rage quit just don't like the game. There are many games I don't like, and I quit them also. So it's ok for a player to quit.

I dont' know of one patch that recently made high sec safer. Could you link the patch notes for that? CCP is always working to try to improve the game. But you need to realize that this is a pvp game. Players choose not to go for pvp and that is fine. But pvp still can come your way no matter what.

Concord is there to make criminals go boom. There are many times that someone has a fail gank because Concord gets there before they blow up someone's ship. It is a ruthless game whether you are in high, low, or null. You need to decide whether it's a game for you or not. If it is a game for you then your going to need to come to grips with the harsh environment it is and learn to adapt.

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
Jensaro Koraka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-03-04 07:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jensaro Koraka
Takseen wrote:
I remember being quite confused after finding out you can freely engage members of your own corp without Concord intervention. If CCP wanted to remove awoxing, that'd be the easiest way to address it.

Many members of corps that aren't incapable of defending themselves and aren't AFK most of the time enjoy being able to shoot each other. Just yesterday I helped a corpmate test his tank to see how many newbies in frigates it would take to break it. The answer? We don't know. We didn't have enough newbies. Sad

BoSau Hotim wrote:
I dont' know of one patch that recently made high sec safer.

The new flagging system is the most recent. Not that it really mattered much since CCP already killed can flipping.

Edit: And exhumer tiericide.

BoSau Hotim wrote:
The day I first realized how harsh of a universe EvE is was the day my corp and I were 'baptized by fire' in our first wardec. We were only a few months old and 3 older corps with experienced pvp'ers dec'd us. It was a shock, but at the same time it was exhilerating. We fought back... lost horribly, but we would not pay the ransom nor bow down to them. We got dec'd 5 more times in the next few months. We did not disband. We grew closer together and total strangers now have become who I consider to be loyal friends.

We got very lucky shortly after that. An experienced pvp'er joined our corp and started teaching us how to fit, and how to fight.

I say get your corp going again. maybe find a merc corp that can help you out. But get back in the game. Private chat me in game and let's talk about it.

This isn't greifing, it's the game and you can find a way to survive in this universe. You just need a little help my friend.

Liked your post for showing high sec dwellers they don't have to be carebears. You're a positive role model.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken
Sixx Spades
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-03-04 07:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sixx Spades
My offer to come and shoot my Thrasher still stands, deeks87 deaco. Diago may not have been part of my original plan, but this worked out far better than what I could have hoped for.

Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-03-04 08:38:55 UTC
Agent Trask wrote:
deeks87 deacon wrote:
I'm sure it will never be abolished( in high sec at least) until it starts to effect CCP's wallet IRL:) IE Ragequits.
I actual listened to a TS3 recording of this guy getting awoxed the other night and he lost something like 4or 5b , he was actually crying and sounded like he was going to go hang himself just because some awoxer wanted a laugh.


So we should turn highsec into a Hello Kitty themepark because some unstable person is literally crying over game pixels he can replace by purchasing about US$100 worth of PLEX from CCP?


I'd be quite worried if he WASN'T upset about losing US$100. That's not pocket change for normal people.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-03-04 08:44:47 UTC
Jensaro Koraka wrote:
Takseen wrote:
I remember being quite confused after finding out you can freely engage members of your own corp without Concord intervention. If CCP wanted to remove awoxing, that'd be the easiest way to address it.

Many members of corps that aren't incapable of defending themselves and aren't AFK most of the time enjoy being able to shoot each other. Just yesterday I helped a corpmate test his tank to see how many newbies in frigates it would take to break it. The answer? We don't know. We didn't have enough newbies. Sad


Problem is now you can achieve this via the dueling system, so legitimised corp friendly fire needs to justify itself some other way :)

And I'm not sure how being afk or not affects an awoxer with multiple points being able to kill a mining fleet.
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#57 - 2013-03-04 08:51:57 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Agent Trask wrote:
deeks87 deacon wrote:
I'm sure it will never be abolished( in high sec at least) until it starts to effect CCP's wallet IRL:) IE Ragequits.
I actual listened to a TS3 recording of this guy getting awoxed the other night and he lost something like 4or 5b , he was actually crying and sounded like he was going to go hang himself just because some awoxer wanted a laugh.


So we should turn highsec into a Hello Kitty themepark because some unstable person is literally crying over game pixels he can replace by purchasing about US$100 worth of PLEX from CCP?


I'd be quite worried if he WASN'T upset about losing US$100. That's not pocket change for normal people.



He didnt' say that he had paid real money for it, he said it was about $100 worthof plex to replace it. As the saying goes, don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it.. and I would add don't fly it if you have not settled it in your mind that someone can take it from you quite quickly.

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#58 - 2013-03-04 09:17:51 UTC
Ban? No. The other person should find where they are and file a civil complaint because the internet does not take away humanity, and in real life if you got mad and said you'll kill someone...

There are consequences.

Time to learn video games aren't immunity from being humans kiddies.
Xintri Ra'Virr
Yamaguchi-Gumi
#59 - 2013-03-04 12:44:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Xintri Ra'Virr
Once Dueling Game Mechanic is introduced to Eve, CCP should change aggro mechanic in hisec that way to dont allow ppl freely engage and kill their corpmates without being concordokken, but remote reps should work as now. Old mechanic is simply obsolette and causing more harm that gain now.

Being ganked by suicide Thrasher fleet is one thing, but being killed by some jerk who joined corp to pop all members during mining OP is another.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-03-04 13:16:58 UTC
BoSau Hotim wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Agent Trask wrote:
deeks87 deacon wrote:
I'm sure it will never be abolished( in high sec at least) until it starts to effect CCP's wallet IRL:) IE Ragequits.
I actual listened to a TS3 recording of this guy getting awoxed the other night and he lost something like 4or 5b , he was actually crying and sounded like he was going to go hang himself just because some awoxer wanted a laugh.


So we should turn highsec into a Hello Kitty themepark because some unstable person is literally crying over game pixels he can replace by purchasing about US$100 worth of PLEX from CCP?


I'd be quite worried if he WASN'T upset about losing US$100. That's not pocket change for normal people.



He didnt' say that he had paid real money for it, he said it was about $100 worthof plex to replace it. As the saying goes, don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it.. and I would add don't fly it if you have not settled it in your mind that someone can take it from you quite quickly.


And losing a thing that would cost $100 or countless hours to rebuild is upsetting to people, and I'd be worried about someone who didn't find it upsetting. Because why would you spend weeks or months of your time building something you don't care about?
I'd have thought being on a forum that feeds on tears, you'd understand where they come from.