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Russian Roulette - CCP vs. Goonswarm

Author
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#41 - 2011-10-28 08:17:51 UTC
Hmmm, yes I'm a noob, but to be honest, I feel the OP is reading far too much into current events involving CCP, the CSM, Hi Sec and the sandbox. I guess it makes for a great conspiracy theory and potential blog visits - all that is missing is the obligatory doomsday date prediction.Blink

Isn't the whole concept of the sandbox based upon the fact that players can adjust tactics in response to the tactics of others? Game play will evolve in a similar style to a biological arms race. New players, like me, will either learn passively and suffer the consequences, or will take an active approach to learn much needed survival skills. If we accpet all this, why would the Goon's current campaign be any different to anything else the game has previously faced?
Ima FatBastard
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2011-10-28 08:18:14 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
mkint wrote:
What part about the super nerfs will give the little guys a chance? Sure, it will reduce lolhotdrop from completely ruining lowsec, but all it does for nullsec is to make goons bigger and everyone else smaller.

I think you're confused...we are the little guys.

There's nothing little about you...
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-10-28 08:20:10 UTC
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
I have seen far more on the internet that supports that, and nothing whatsoever that supports conspiracy theories such as yours.

The conspiracy theory is for fun.

The damage this interdiction could do, forcing CCP to make highsec even safer, is real.

They've already changed wardec policy such that if you want to avoid being wardecced, it is ******* ridiculously easy. If they buff CONCORD to make ganking even harder? Highsec becomes a completely risk-free environment. How is that good for the game?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2011-10-28 08:21:34 UTC
Kinis Deren wrote:
Isn't the whole concept of the sandbox based upon the fact that players can adjust tactics in response to the tactics of others? Game play will evolve in a similar style to a biological arms race. New players, like me, will either learn passively and suffer the consequences, or will take an active approach to learn much needed survival skills. If we accpet all this, why would the Goon's current campaign be any different to anything else the game has previously faced?

That is true, as long as all areas of the game are open to conflict. There seems to be a movement in CCP to reduce the level of conflict in highsec to near zero.
Aldan Romar
Doomheim
#45 - 2011-10-28 08:22:44 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
... Already, the war declaration system has been gutted. ... Yet, this policy change, removes all corporations (but especially highsec corporations) from a major component of non-consensual PvP, ...
What did I miss that happened that made wardecs against highsec corporations impossible?
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-10-28 08:23:12 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:

I'm not against Gallente Ice Interdiction. It adds spice to the game. But considering Hilmar has his eyes on highsec and seems to want to make it SAFER, then this ongoing interdiction seems to be forcing CCP into making it safer sooner rather than later (after a good sleep and giving it a good think.)


Do you have any other actual proof of that, besides that one change regarding wardecs?

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#47 - 2011-10-28 08:24:13 UTC
CSM is a gimmick and has no real power. Move along.
Ima FatBastard
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2011-10-28 08:25:14 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
Do you have any other actual proof of that, besides that one change regarding wardecs?

ohgod...you just opened pandoras box
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2011-10-28 08:25:55 UTC
Aldan Romar wrote:
What did I miss that happened that made wardecs against highsec corporations impossible?
You can wardec 'em ... they can just either make it exceptionally expensive with cheap decshields or bounce an entire corporation to a new alliance to avoid your declaration.

For instance, one large corporation pays ~250M ISK per week to set up a 19 corporation decshield. It will cost you 1B ISK to declare war on them. If they really don't want to waste a week warring you, they can immediately bounce to a new alliance, and your wardec is void, and you've lost 1B ISK.
Lexmana
#50 - 2011-10-28 08:26:31 UTC
Quote:
But there's this undercurrent of urgency on the part of CCP, that player retention is tied to highsec and changes need to be made. Radical changes. And without them, CCP will continue to bleed subscriptions.


Your basing your whole conspiracy theory on the fact that EVE is bleeding subscriptions, but there is no truth to that. It has grown year to year with all time high in 2011. And yes there are variations over time (winter is prime time) and yes EVE lost some this summer because they ****** up. But EVE is not bleeding. CCP was in financial problems because they tried to develop three games at once. They seem to have corrected that now.

Tinfoil hat on and more drama is sure to come.
mkint
#51 - 2011-10-28 08:27:13 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:

I'm not against Gallente Ice Interdiction. It adds spice to the game. But considering Hilmar has his eyes on highsec and seems to want to make it SAFER, then this ongoing interdiction seems to be forcing CCP into making it safer sooner rather than later (after a good sleep and giving it a good think.)


Do you have any other actual proof of that, besides that one change regarding wardecs?

you don't get it... this is a stealth re-nerf eve-u thread. If you follow the blog to see what links were linked, two of them lead straight to the dec-shield threads.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2011-10-28 08:27:29 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:

I'm not against Gallente Ice Interdiction. It adds spice to the game. But considering Hilmar has his eyes on highsec and seems to want to make it SAFER, then this ongoing interdiction seems to be forcing CCP into making it safer sooner rather than later (after a good sleep and giving it a good think.)


Do you have any other actual proof of that, besides that one change regarding wardecs?


https://twitter.com/#!/HilmarVeigar/status/121912148896137216

https://twitter.com/#!/ArnarHrafn/status/121939274303143936
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2011-10-28 08:35:36 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Nyla Skin wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:

I'm not against Gallente Ice Interdiction. It adds spice to the game. But considering Hilmar has his eyes on highsec and seems to want to make it SAFER, then this ongoing interdiction seems to be forcing CCP into making it safer sooner rather than later (after a good sleep and giving it a good think.)


Do you have any other actual proof of that, besides that one change regarding wardecs?


https://twitter.com/#!/HilmarVeigar/status/121912148896137216

https://twitter.com/#!/ArnarHrafn/status/121939274303143936


I wouldn't base my argument on something as sketchy as that.
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2011-10-28 08:37:14 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
The CEO of BoB swore death and destruction and the flatlining of Eve if his needs and wants where not met. Great threats of massive unsubs were held up as a form of extortion. The drama that ensued proved costly, both for BoB and a small group of CCP staff.

Eve is still here.
The bad CCP staff are not.
BoB is not.

I'm satisfied that Hilmar, as a mature and knowledeable person will not be bulldozed or bullied into anything that will hurt the income and ongoing success of Eve. He's done right before, no reason he won't do what's right again.

One Corporation does not Eve make, no matter what.


The Executor of BoB didn't have the - er-hem - political strings that Mittens has. Remember, Goonswarm's main goal is to ruin any game they play. The fact that they fell in love with this game when they started playing it shows the danger of what can happen when one becomes enamored with the target.

Second, remember Monoclegate. Hilmar didn't pop up once during the entire fiasco. He only "did right" by the players after he called our bluff, and the players replied: Challenge accepted. It wasn't a challenge that should have been made lightly, but at the same time I don't think the response during the entire ordeal would have been as massive as it was had the mail not been leaked.

I do agree, however, that this is a test of wills. Mittens - and I give him credit for this - has always advocated that the Sandbox not be messed with. This game is all about that much. That whole "Butterfly Effect" video has been a very good way of explaining what can happen in this game. One person can have a massive impact on the gaming world, and that is what Mittens is trying to show.

At the same time, the Sandbox according to Mittens and the majority of the CSM should be found only in null-sec space, where you can PvE to your heart's content and when things go wrong, deploy the supercaps! As much as people have said high sec is for carebears, there are many credible arguments (dismissed out-of-hand as "ludicrous" by many null-sec denizens) that you find far more carebears in null sec. Tell me, where are the majority of botters? In null sec, because the risk vs. reward there has been rather acceptable for them.

On top of that, Mittens is now looking at a possible shake-up come next CSM. We are either going to see the CSM completely changed with a "cap" on the power blocs (maybe a 3-person per "area" CSM), or we're going to see a lot of nothing. I say this, because if Trebor is to be believed (and I admit I see where he is coming from), after this CSM in particular he [Hilmar] is tired of having to explain himself to the players.

Hilmar has made it clear he is upset with us. He is upset with the people who have sided with the players since before Monoclegate. He sees us as "cutting in" to his profits. In truth, walking-in-stations is delayed because of us, the players, and World of Darkness is most certainly on the back burner.

This expansion, in my honest opinion, will make or break EVE. The players are annoyed with having to deal with the greed of Hilmar, but at the same time they're tired of having things ruined for the sake of a small portion of the players. Every form of easy ISK making is going to be moved out of high sec, to either low sec or null. The pirates want it moved to low sec, but if history has taught us anything, people flock to null sec rather than low in cases like this.

There needs to be a major change, not only in the way the CSM is done, but in the way this game is looked at. I agree that in many instances, there is little risk in high sec. Maybe missions should be looked at, as should mining. But the Incursions are not something one can simply say, "Change the payout so high sec is pointless." Incursions are not missions. You can not fit up an AFK Dominix/Rattlesnake and do your usual routine. You have to be at the computer. You have to wait for the areas to open, and in many instances you have to fight other people to claim the rewards.

I'm getting off-track, though.

In closing, I have seriously considered running for CSM this time on the "high sec" platform, with some faction warfare tossed in. Having played in three of the militias, I have seen some of the problems plaguing it, and I don't think this expansion will fix them. I do think I have some good things to bring to the table with regards to this, and at the same time I have been quite the vocal critic of "pay attention to the players" since Day 1 of Monoclegate. Time will tell, and this CSM meeting will definitely be what decides for me.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2011-10-28 08:37:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Nyla Skin wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:

I'm not against Gallente Ice Interdiction. It adds spice to the game. But considering Hilmar has his eyes on highsec and seems to want to make it SAFER, then this ongoing interdiction seems to be forcing CCP into making it safer sooner rather than later (after a good sleep and giving it a good think.)


Do you have any other actual proof of that, besides that one change regarding wardecs?


https://twitter.com/#!/HilmarVeigar/status/121912148896137216

https://twitter.com/#!/ArnarHrafn/status/121939274303143936
I wouldn't base my argument on something as sketchy as that.

In this instance, you listen to what they say ... you don't wait until its too late and they've already gone and done it.
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2011-10-28 08:41:40 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
I have seen far more on the internet that supports that, and nothing whatsoever that supports conspiracy theories such as yours.

The conspiracy theory is for fun.

The damage this interdiction could do, forcing CCP to make highsec even safer, is real.

They've already changed wardec policy such that if you want to avoid being wardecced, it is ******* ridiculously easy. If they buff CONCORD to make ganking even harder? Highsec becomes a completely risk-free environment. How is that good for the game?


Ah, I see what it is now, you're new here. It has been public knowledge for a while now, much longer than The Mittani has been a CSM rep, that CCP has been unhappy with the wardec mechanics, and that it was basically just a grief for pay system. I would say then that their new policy on wardecs fall into that context more readily than the one you have provided.

As to the tweets, really? Your founding a grandiose conspiracy on tweets? /facepalm

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#57 - 2011-10-28 08:46:49 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:

In this instance, you listen to what they say ... you don't wait until its too late and they've already gone and done it.


I think this is the 3rd time in 5 years I have seen the 70+ year old sick of ganks comment. I'm not gonna worry about them doing something to ganking to please the spineless who have been whining for years about there being consequences to their own stupidity.

This sudden explosion of bad topics by terrible posters has happened every hulkageddon.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2011-10-28 08:47:05 UTC
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
As to the tweets, really? Your founding a grandiose conspiracy on tweets? /facepalm
A CEO communicating with his Senior Producer. That it was on Twitter invalidates the conversation?

That conversation might have amounted to nothing. It might have amounted to a meeting the next day, and then a directive to change CONCORD. We don't know. Should we wait until it is too late? Both of them obviously think its a good idea (or they did at the time.)

Why wait until we have tonnes of hindsight, when right now he was a little foresight?
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#59 - 2011-10-28 08:48:45 UTC
mkint wrote:
Nyla Skin wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:

I'm not against Gallente Ice Interdiction. It adds spice to the game. But considering Hilmar has his eyes on highsec and seems to want to make it SAFER, then this ongoing interdiction seems to be forcing CCP into making it safer sooner rather than later (after a good sleep and giving it a good think.)


Do you have any other actual proof of that, besides that one change regarding wardecs?

you don't get it... this is a stealth re-nerf eve-u thread. If you follow the blog to see what links were linked, two of them lead straight to the dec-shield threads.

Whats even funnier is that there IS a grand conspiracy... But its against TEST Shocked

If you pay attention, you will see that Goons overwhelmingly detest TEST, and are trying to provoke the mighty highsec blob into attack, at which point they will use TEST as a meatshield, and let them get ground out of existence.

Once Montolio emoragequites, the interdiction will end because Goons achieved their goal.

Its all so obvious, how can you come up with this mind melting garbage about a plot to overthrow CCP.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2011-10-28 08:49:57 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
... a plot to overthrow CCP.
??