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Dev Blog: CSM8 Elections – Schedule and Election Process

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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#301 - 2013-03-03 00:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Ellahan Vhektor wrote:
Cass Lie wrote:
So wormholers will have a primary after all.

yes his name is Cipreh you will find his thread here as a member of his corp 7 months now i would like to voice my oppinion of him i think hes a fair and just leader and some one that you want to represent your voice if you are a wormhole capsuler
CIPREH FOR ALL THE CSM'S!Cool


Given my experience with Clann Fian, I'll be sure to put him at the bottom of my list, or leave him off it entirely if that is an option. Treacherous, no good, back-stabbing...

edit: Of course, I'm sure someone had their reasons, but people don't forget these things. Honestly, I didn't like that alliance much anyway.

edit2: And yet, somehow, petty, simple minded bs is still petty, simple minded bs. Maybe you're done with that though.
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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#302 - 2013-03-03 00:22:04 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I will admit it is kind of funny that we are using the voting system designed to give the fish and chip party an extra seat in the senate.

Please ExplainLol

But one other question, as the votes have to be stored in a database to work out the preference voting will they remain anonymous?


Highsec is the fish and chip party. Makes sense now doesn't it. Blink
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Bubbleboylol
Militia Federation
#303 - 2013-03-03 06:50:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubbleboylol
So why does it have to be that way? Just curious? Why not have the people running and the people voting? THe people voting get an in game email for who to vote for they click who they want then submit it. Now if CCP does not lie and or cheat the system it would work just fine.. That would even promote the CSM as every EvE player would get one. send it early so for those who don't know who to vote for can go read real quick or just vote, or does that put the vote in the peoples hands and is that not good? Smells a bit like elections rigging....

Asking to have more then one ( Option From CCP is like asking a chicken to cook it-self. )
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#304 - 2013-03-03 09:07:32 UTC
Bubbleboylol wrote:
So why does it have to be that way? Just curious?

..

Smells a bit like elections rigging....



It's not nefarious, it's just the closest some nerds* can come to solving a social issue with math.

* I say this in an endearing way

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Bubbleboylol
Militia Federation
#305 - 2013-03-03 09:17:53 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Bubbleboylol wrote:
So why does it have to be that way? Just curious?

..

Smells a bit like elections rigging....



It's not nefarious, it's just the closest some nerds* can come to solving a social issue with math.

* I say this in an endearing way




yarr

Asking to have more then one ( Option From CCP is like asking a chicken to cook it-self. )
Frying Doom
#306 - 2013-03-03 10:21:42 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Bubbleboylol wrote:
So why does it have to be that way? Just curious?

..

Smells a bit like elections rigging....



It's not nefarious, it's just the closest some nerds* can come to solving a social issue with math.

* I say this in an endearing way

Yes but what I want to know as this system was built for the fish and chip party to get another seat and this will allow Goonswarm to easily get that other seat...therefore Goonswarm is the fish and chip party....so

When do they start talking about cutting off pensions for single mothers?


Sorry Australian humorLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#307 - 2013-03-03 17:17:10 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
But one other question, as the votes have to be stored in a database to work out the preference voting will they remain anonymous?

Individual votes will be anonymous (ie: nobody will know that you listed me as your top preference).

However, aggregate ballots will be published so that the election can be confirmed by interested observers. That is, a list will be generated that has entries like this:

52 ballots had preferences A,B,C,D,E,F,G
33 ballots had preferences G,A,L,Q,B,E,D,C

and so on.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Vince Snetterton
#308 - 2013-03-03 17:24:10 UTC
Has the HBC/CFC voting bloc published who the top ten vote-getters will be yet, or are they still sorting that out internally?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#309 - 2013-03-03 17:44:29 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Has the HBC/CFC voting bloc published who the top ten vote-getters will be yet, or are they still sorting that out internally?


You can bet that every last piece of literature on how to rig that Wright algorythm through ballot stuffing is being scrutinized with undeterred attention.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#310 - 2013-03-03 18:05:20 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
You can bet that every last piece of literature on how to rig that Wright algorythm through ballot stuffing is being scrutinized with undeterred attention.


We can only hope.

Praise be to James.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Frying Doom
#311 - 2013-03-03 21:45:45 UTC
Another question

As this election is all about not wasting votes, will the preliminary vote have an up to date counter or a greying out of candidates to show those that have reached the 200 votes required to go on the main ballot?

As is seems strange to have the main as an STV and the prelim as a first past the post.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#312 - 2013-03-03 21:59:53 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
As this election is all about not wasting votes, will the preliminary vote have an up to date counter or a greying out of candidates to show those that have reached the 200 votes required to go on the main ballot?

As is seems strange to have the main as an STV and the prelim as a first past the post.

The first election is not FPTP since there is no limit on how many can qualify. It's just a hoop you have to jump through.

No decision has been made (AFAIK) as to whether there will be any indication that candidates have made it past the threshold. My personal position is that CCP should inform the candidates when they have qualified, and leave it up to them whether they want to reveal that information. Also that the preliminary election is probably not going to achieve what they want.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Frying Doom
#313 - 2013-03-04 01:43:22 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
As this election is all about not wasting votes, will the preliminary vote have an up to date counter or a greying out of candidates to show those that have reached the 200 votes required to go on the main ballot?

As is seems strange to have the main as an STV and the prelim as a first past the post.

The first election is not FPTP since there is no limit on how many can qualify. It's just a hoop you have to jump through.

No decision has been made (AFAIK) as to whether there will be any indication that candidates have made it past the threshold. My personal position is that CCP should inform the candidates when they have qualified, and leave it up to them whether they want to reveal that information. Also that the preliminary election is probably not going to achieve what they want.

Ok so its not FPTP but it is still weird to go through this much for the main election and then have vote wasting in the prelim.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#314 - 2013-03-04 06:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Frying Doom wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
As this election is all about not wasting votes, will the preliminary vote have an up to date counter or a greying out of candidates to show those that have reached the 200 votes required to go on the main ballot?

As is seems strange to have the main as an STV and the prelim as a first past the post.

The first election is not FPTP since there is no limit on how many can qualify. It's just a hoop you have to jump through.

No decision has been made (AFAIK) as to whether there will be any indication that candidates have made it past the threshold. My personal position is that CCP should inform the candidates when they have qualified, and leave it up to them whether they want to reveal that information. Also that the preliminary election is probably not going to achieve what they want.

Ok so its not FPTP but it is still weird to go through this much for the main election and then have vote wasting in the prelim.


Its a business Frying Doom, the waste gets cast aside. Into a lake or an ocean even for the better.

Those wasted votes on the prelims, aren't business enough, or matter too much, so they are caste aside. That way people will focus their strength into voting that will mean business, so no votes are wasted then, so business won't be hurt.

You have to look at determining waste in the business sense Frying Doom to understand this. Waste that has no strength or focus is really waste then.

You keep acting like CCP is a political body over the game or new eden universe, its not, they are a business. This is how you have to look at things to understand, what is happening.

Most of this makes perfect business and what else would you expect from an expert masterful business.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Frying Doom
#315 - 2013-03-04 07:21:32 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
As this election is all about not wasting votes, will the preliminary vote have an up to date counter or a greying out of candidates to show those that have reached the 200 votes required to go on the main ballot?

As is seems strange to have the main as an STV and the prelim as a first past the post.

The first election is not FPTP since there is no limit on how many can qualify. It's just a hoop you have to jump through.

No decision has been made (AFAIK) as to whether there will be any indication that candidates have made it past the threshold. My personal position is that CCP should inform the candidates when they have qualified, and leave it up to them whether they want to reveal that information. Also that the preliminary election is probably not going to achieve what they want.

Ok so its not FPTP but it is still weird to go through this much for the main election and then have vote wasting in the prelim.


Its a business Frying Doom, the waste gets cast aside. Into a lake or an ocean even for the better.

Those wasted votes on the prelims, aren't business enough, or matter too much, so they are caste aside. That way people will focus their strength into voting that will mean business, so no votes are wasted then, so business won't be hurt.

You have to look at determining waste in the business sense Frying Doom to understand this. Waste that has no strength or focus is really waste then.

You keep acting like CCP is a political body over the game or new eden universe, its not, they are a business. This is how you have to look at things to understand, what is happening.

Most of this makes perfect business and what else would you expect from an expert masterful business.

Ok well what I would expect from a "expert masterful business", compared to CCP I will not go into as I think the forum server would explode.

But what your saying is that first they got into trouble with the Norwegians for being a gambling site and now your saying we need to contact the UN for electoral assistance as CCP is illegally dumping votes and contaminating the political wilderness.

So now we just need a civil rights CSM candidateLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#316 - 2013-03-04 07:48:06 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:


The old system, flawed as FPTP is, was moving towards a trend of blocs only putting forth a single official candidiate. This was in large part due to the fact that more than one candidate was completely unnecessary - there were no votes or anything of the sort, everything that needed to be decided (chair, who goes to Iceland) was decided before anyone took office, so "stacking the deck" was a pointless gesture. What this new system has done is introduce the CSM voting on things AND given a voting system that lends itself towards multiple candidates (or at the very least allowing nullsec to dictate who the majority of the council are), which undoes all of that. That's not really a good thing, especially when you're still trying to convince non-bloc-aligned people to actually care enough to participate.

^^
+1
What I was hoping for when I heard there was going to be an electoral change would be a way to allow regional voting so the CSM would be more diversely populated. What it sounds like we'll get is a tyrany of the minority providing CCP with wildly skewed representation of the customer base and I anticipate voter turnout percentage to plummet especiallywith non-bloc customer base.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#317 - 2013-03-04 07:48:50 UTC
@Trebor:

By the way, do you know wether there are any plans to provide candidate insight for the preliminary election? Like a single article explaining who are the candidates, what do they stand for and why should we help them pass the threshold?

Or will that be left to each candidate's initiative so essentially we'll have half a dozen comprehensive dossiers, a few uninformative and incomplete introductions and a bunch of one-liner forum gibberish? Question
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#318 - 2013-03-04 07:59:49 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
+1
What I was hoping for when I heard there was going to be an electoral change would be a way to allow regional voting so the CSM would be more diversely populated. What it sounds like we'll get is a tyrany of the minority providing CCP with wildly skewed representation of the customer base and I anticipate voter turnout percentage to plummet especiallywith non-bloc customer base.


What's really funny is that the "minority" you refer to (obv. you mean nullsec) was pretty firmly AGAINST any kind of change to the voting system (you can check Xhagen's voting reform thread in Jita Park if you don't believe me). If CCP was swayed by anyone (and that's a big IF), it was by people like yourself and Frying Doom crying and screaming about NULL SEC LOBBY GROUPS and other such nonsense that would lead CCP to believe that the current population was not being fairly represented.

So hey, congrats, I guess?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#319 - 2013-03-04 08:05:14 UTC
Quote:

- 12th – 20th of March: candidacy application period
- 22nd – 29th of March: Pre-Election



For the pre-election the voters will be given the RL names connected with the Candidates' characters names correct?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#320 - 2013-03-04 08:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Snow Axe wrote:


The old system, flawed as FPTP is, was moving towards a trend of blocs only putting forth a single official candidiate. This was in large part due to the fact that more than one candidate was completely unnecessary - there were no votes or anything of the sort, everything that needed to be decided (chair, who goes to Iceland) was decided before anyone took office, so "stacking the deck" was a pointless gesture. What this new system has done is introduce the CSM voting on things AND given a voting system that lends itself towards multiple candidates (or at the very least allowing nullsec to dictate who the majority of the council are), which undoes all of that. That's not really a good thing, especially when you're still trying to convince non-bloc-aligned people to actually care enough to participate.



Snow Axe wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
+1
What I was hoping for when I heard there was going to be an electoral change would be a way to allow regional voting so the CSM would be more diversely populated. What it sounds like we'll get is a tyrany of the minority providing CCP with wildly skewed representation of the customer base and I anticipate voter turnout percentage to plummet especiallywith non-bloc customer base.


What's really funny is that the "minority" you refer to (obv. you mean nullsec) was pretty firmly AGAINST any kind of change to the voting system (you can check Xhagen's voting reform thread in Jita Park if you don't believe me). If CCP was swayed by anyone (and that's a big IF), it was by people like yourself and Frying Doom crying and screaming about NULL SEC LOBBY GROUPS and other such nonsense that would lead CCP to believe that the current population was not being fairly represented.

So hey, congrats, I guess?


And yet I guess CCP took what we said & gamed created a system that'll probably do the exact opposite of what we were 'screaming' for Roll
Without compulsorary sufferage like in the country they are modelling the system over (Australia) this thing is missing a major component that would make it work.

I hope I'm wrong but this sounds like Malcanis's rule about newbies in overdrive
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'