EVE General Discussion

you know at some point your computer will be worth like $10 and you probably should upgrade

No worries, Win7 is slated to replace it. ..at least until they come up with something better. ..if they come up with something better.

Yeah Windows 7 is definitely on it's way to replacing XP. With win 8 being so meh we're looking at another vista situation.

A mixed environment network is not a gaming PC; two different apples, and one has many more of them.

My advice on GPUs isn't bad at all. I did state that you can spend much less and get a good gpu. $159 USD will buy a better one than I have now, (marginally), but it is a good 2 generations beyond what I have. and only cost about $100 less than what I paid for mine.

Comparatively speaking, my GPU was an upgrade from a GTX 260 which did not support DirectX11, and the 650 ti is actually a step down with respect to its place in the GPU line up, but brings PCIe 3.0 compatibility, (useless to me atm), while improving performance.

Spend any less than what is required to get that however, and you'll see some serious drop in performance. Many PC stores sell PCs with min. quality GPUs, and quite often now, with just the integrated graphics on the CPUs, which more than cover most applications.

A 670 isn't necessary for EVE, or many other games, but it will outlast the 650 ti in most respects and you can expect it will perform when you need it. It is worth the investment if you plan on doing any gaming on the upper end of the graphics requirements scale. Most MMO's don't have any need for that, if any do. It's counterproductive to having a large user base, as mentioned.

I've been watching the GPU market for some time now, and I can honestly say that it has not more than tripled in capability in the last 5-6 years. Some major changes like PCIe 3.0 and DirectX 11 capability aside, the hardware is scaling up in a relatively linear fashion.

3dMark scores and super clocking hardware with LN2 and Liquid Helium might make it seem so, but these set-ups are taking advantage of increases in both CPU and GPU clocks, increases in throughput, and other features of over clocking, in addition to an increase in both the number of CPUs and GPUs.

The average user doesn't have any use for that, and very few could afford it anyway. 4xSLI or CrossfireX on LN2 with dual quad or hexacore, or octacore, etc.. is just stacking processing capability. Most of this done on extreme gaming server/workstation-platform-based systems.

On the level of the average user, without the benefit of PCIe 3.0, the comparison of a single GTX 260, GTX 460, and GTX 660 isn't going to be that much different in terms of performance afforded. It will be different, but as I said, it is a linear scale and hardware is exceeding software development in most circles, thus the lifetime of these cards generally exceeds that of most systems they are in.

My GTX 260 transitioned 3 systems, with replacements of all other hardware in the process. I switched to a 460 because I wanted DirectX 11 support, and I will upgrade to a 600 or something when I feel the need for DirectX11 and PCIe 3.0. That will require the replacement of my motherboard and CPU by default however, so I don't see that happening any time soon.

I'm not disagreeing with everything you say of course. I'm just trying to point out that a good GPU is by no means a bad investment if you have a use for it. Most people don't.

Win7 does kick you out of games if you have it set up to auto-update. I have had it happen, before turning off that feature when I've forgotten about it. On a clean install from OEM, there is no default set-up; it is configured by the user as the OS is installed as part of the process.

The only way of avoiding that is to configure an install, which done over networks is likely the case. For most home users who build their own PCs at any point however, the process is step-by-step. A retail version might be different, but I've never used one.

Even in setting up the OS, you have to pick and choose updates or run the risk of having your OS completely scrapped in the process. I have found it is best to leave security updates until last.

As for Norton, I've not had many viruses, but I have had my Kernel scrapped on more than a few occasions. This is either due to someone directly hacking my PC and attempting to bypass UAC and AV protocol, or it is a result of the AV. I do know, this does not happen unless an AV is present and running.

I'm sure you know your stuff, but one environment does not account for every user.

MAC uses Intel Xeon processors btw, and quite often high end ATi or Nvidia GPUs. I'd hardly consider that third rate hardware.

Does this look cheap to you? https://www.apple.com/ca/macpro/design.html Check out any server board from Tyan, SunMicro, or any of the various others. Varying degrees of quality aside.. what is it that Russian in Armageddon said? "..all made in Taiwan!"

..anyway, the point is, that if you check out any motherboard, aside from the extreme gamer hardware like EVGAs classified motherboards and various others, most of the parts of of somewhat generic quality. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Apples hardware.

[quote=ashley Eoner...
You told him to buy a $600 card not a $160 so there's a bit of a difference in those statements...[/quote]

you fail at reading.


edit: ..and besides, they're much less than $600 for most of them, (~$400), and if you read the OP, they already bought it for $500. I never told him/her to do anything; I just used the example from the hardware they had already purchased and set up.

edit: also, you're a frickin tech genius; good for you. Consider me suitably impressed. Too bad you can't understand that the rest of the world isn't working out of your 'lab'

..wasn't this about tessellation.

Also, nice to know someone out there recaps their boards when they fry. Have to wonder at the cost in hours to do that vs. the cost of just buying a new board. So if I paid you $60 an hour to recap a $150 board for me, would it be worth it?

Also, I've never had a board fry on me.. what's it like?

..and you'll get better multi-screen performance too. I like EVGA; EVGA makes nVidia GPUs which I also like. I like PC, but I don't think any less of Mac for it. I don't think any less of ATi GPUs either; I just have my preferences.

Nothing wrong with the 7950, and you're right, it is ~$100 less right now. Some moderate changes in performance at various levels aside, they actually come close to the same overall performance spec wise. Never tested either though, and I haven't bothered to look up the 3d benchmarking on them.

I don't need to. Not because I know everything I need to know, but because I really have no use for the information, and besides, I know it is somewhat flawed in that it is often relying on a multitude of other factors that can change the way the performance scales for each card.

If I wanted to break it down a bit, I'll assume by faster you are referring to the Memory bandwidth.
240 GB/s on the 7950 as opposed to 192.26 GB/s on the 670

Other Comparisons:

384 bit GDDR5 on the 7950 as opposed to the 256 bit GDDR5 on the 670.
5GHz (QDR) 5Gbps Memory Clock on the 7950 as opposed to 6GHz (QDR) 6Gbps Memory Clock on the 670
3GB Memory on the 7950 as opposed to 2-4GB Memory on the GTX 670

Reference 670 is 2GB but you can get 4GB on it for not much more money, and with binned chips that have better than average performance.

So basically, the 7950 compensates for a slower memory clock with a larger chunk of memory on a 384 bit width bus to increase the memory bandwidth of the card. Having greater than 2GB of momory on the card is fairly non-essential for most people, but can be useful for workstation applications and some very graphics intensive games.

Ultimately, it's up to the buyer what they get, but the additional bandwidth is important to a 7950 because of the multi-monitor application which is I think, why AMD chose to go this route.

To the people saying Macs are easier and better quality: Wrong.

PC quality is just fine. I very rarely need to replace anything. Want to know every piece of hardware that's ever died on me in my entire life? 1 HDD, 2 GPUs (both overclocked), 1 motherboard, 2 PSUs and a few cheapo case fans. Since switching to liquid bearings I haven't had any case fans die. Macs were about double the price of an equivalent PC last time I checked. For the same amount of money you can get a far superior PC.

Easy to use? Macs look slick and that's about it. They're not easy, they're more idiotproof. If you're ever used a "child safe" product like a medicine bottle or cigarette lighter you know that it never makes them easier to use and usually does the opposite. Every time I ever tried to use a mac I never failed to be utterly frustrated by how they actively try to prevent you from doing things that would be simple on a PC in the name of protecting you from yourself. They're computers designed to appeal to people who know little to nothing about computers. It's also hard to find software for them, particularly games.

Further, every time I see a Mac ad I feel like it's trying to convince me not to get one. I once saw an ad talking about how awesome their monitor was because it has a webcam built-in and you don't have to set it up. Ignoring the fact that setting up a webcam is trivial, my reaction was "Wait, so I can't choose my webcam, I have to turn my whole monitor to aim it and if it ever breaks I have to get a new monitor? WTF?!". Keep in mind this wasn't a laptop. It was a desktop monitor. A desktop.

This even extends to their phones. I haven't looked into the current generation, but last time I looked an Evo was better than an iPhone in every way while also being cheaper.

Evo: Cheaper. Higher resolution camera on both the front and back. Removable battery. Faster internet. Bigger screen. Doesn't require wifi to video chat. Removable memory card. More customization. Cheaper monthly bill. Sprint>AT&T.

iPhone: It looks like an iPhone.

Edit: Old, but still funny.

Edit 2: Another oldie, but goodie.

Suddenly freighters would become anti super capital bombs and titans would become planet destroyers.

just imagine what would happen on jita undock when 100 frigates get caught by an inbound Charon coming out of warp?


A neat idea, but not the decade for it, maybe in 20 years when we get multiple undocking points, and joystick control with no lag?

CCP please just do the right thing and actually reward the people who want the game to progress graphically.