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[Resolved] Primed for Peace - A Petition to New Eden
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Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#121 - 2013-02-15 14:44:59 UTC
Though the Lord has taken me up onto His path, I have always kept tabs on affairs in the Caldari State. I have been quiet for too long. It is time for my voice to be heard.

What sort of "freedom" does the Gallente Federation stand for when it will commit acts of barbarism and genocide against a people... simply because those people wish for their own sovereignty? Their own independence? The fact is that as long as the Gallente even question that Caldari Prime is the sole property of the sovereign Caldari State, there can be no lasting peace. That is the bare fact; all talk of morality, legality, civilians, culture, sharing, etc... is irrelevant smokescreening.

The Gallente want the Leviathan removed because they fear Caldari military superiority and capability, and the Leviathan is a constant reminder to them. They want us to remove our military assets from Luminaire so that they can retake Caldari Prime. There can be no other reason; the Titan exists only as a vangaurd, a guardian, a deterrant. It has never once made hostile action against the Gallente. Yet the Gallente argue vehemently for it to be removed. This is because the Gallente know full well that retaking Caldari Prime while the Leviathan and it's support fleet remain in system would be tantamount to suicide for the citizens of Gallentia. And after the Titan is removed and Caldari Prime is recaptured, surely the Gallente Federation will use their convoluted talk of morality, laws, bla bla bla, to retroactively justify it.

The Gallente truly are despicable hypocrites, glossing over and rationalizing their acts of barbarism, meanwhile holding the Caldari people morally accountable for their actions. The Gallente are keen at taking up whatever philosophy or citing to whatever laws, ad hoc, that keep them in the advantage of an exchange, and stonewalling and gaslighting like infants when they don't get their way. It was the Gallente who invaded and took Caldari Prime; yet they place the onus for peace on the Caldari? They say the Caldari "abandoned" Caldari Prime, thus surrendering it to the Gallente? Now they are telling the Caldari that they must be the "better person" and step down? It seems the Gallente have no problem with peace as long as they're in charge of the whole affair and the peace is on their terms, their way, calling the shots and letting their moral self-righteousness dictate the actions of others. Let the Gallente Federation hear these words: The Caldari State is a soveriegn nation and does not answer to you, does not owe you a reason, and does not have to play by your rules.

If the Gallente truly want peace, then they need to atone for their centuries of barbarism and discrimination against the Caldari people.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#122 - 2013-02-15 22:56:28 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
It's far too late for the Gallente and Caldari to be one nation again, few people can even remember when we were one nation.
I would argue that its also too early. Who knows what will come about when we've had a prosperous alliance for some time.

Xuixien:
While there is indeed some of what you describe in this thread, I am saddened that you only seem to see the bad and not the good.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2013-02-16 02:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Fey Ivory
Mr Tuulinen

It isent as easy, and black and white as many here say or wish it to be... iwe mentioned this before, and i feel you avoid to adress it... when the Caldari broke off from the Federation, and choose to leave Caldari prime, not every single Caldarian left, it be sort of absurd to paint up or try to paint up a scenario that, after you left Caldari prime, it were a empty uninhabited rock... The majority of your people might have choosen to break off from the federation, but fact remains, some stayed, some dident want to leave the federation, and those few were of same Caldari ancestary, with the same rights to Caldari prime as you Mr Tuulinen, and their desendents now live on Caldari prime, and id suspect most of them are still happy living in the federation...

Or how are you going to adress these several billions of people, ethnic cleansing ?, force them to leave if they dont want to live according to the Laws of the State, and if these were forced to leave, we be back to where we were, now we have these desendents in Gallante Space, without their home world, telling tales of how they lost their home world...

Above said, i dont deny that the Caldari should have access to their home planet as well, and i cant really see any other solotion then sharing it... where the Federations and the States goverment is both equally recogniced... And as Miss Scherezad mentioned earlier, we can both gain alot by trade and science... im not saying its going to be easy, but to have peace and actually wanting to live side by side, there need to be a will for it...

Finally Mr Tuulinen, i am myself a guest in the Federation, but i really do hope that this can be settled and that both sides may prosper and live and be recogniced according to their own choosing !

Miss Xuixien
To solve a equation by trying to add variables that only leads to making the equation harder to solve, is neither constructive nor possetive for the equation at hand !
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#124 - 2013-02-16 02:42:45 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:
Mr Tuulinen

It isent as easy, and black and white as many here say or wish it to be... iwe mentioned this before, and i feel you avoid to adress it... when the Caldari broke off from the Federation, and choose to leave Caldari prime, not every single Caldarian left, it be sort of absurd to paint up or try to paint up a scenario that, after you left Caldari prime, it were a empty uninhabited rock... The majority of your people might have choosen to break off from the federation, but fact remains, some stayed, some dident want to leave the federation, and those few were of same Caldari ancestary, with the same rights to Caldari prime as you Mr Tuulinen, and their desendents now live on Caldari prime, and id suspect most of them are still happy living in the federation...


Mrs. Ivory,

There was little choice in the matter, to be honest. The Gallente Navy was in the process of blockading and invading Home when the Caldari State in its infant leadership decided to leave. The vast majority left because they saw little to no other option, in fact, its very arguable to say that those who didn't leave was largely because time ran out; you simply have to understand our people. The Federation even shot down fleeing transports, people who CHOSE to leave. This wasn't something done willy nilly. Tuulinen-haan isn't attempting to paint the situation in any other way than what it was.

To further that, prior to invasion Caldari Prime was rife with political and social unrest. The Federation even declared martial law and chose to segregate the Caldari from the Gallente. You can postulate all you want about those who wanted to remain with the Federation, but the majority (something that is placed high above anything else in the State) did not.

Respectfully,

Simon Malkov Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Corporate HQ
Federal Administration Information Center
Office Complex 781, Tier V
Luminaire VII (Caldari Prime)

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-02-16 03:00:24 UTC
Mr Louvaki

I dont disagree with you that its the Caldari homeworld, and you should have rights to it... im just point to the fact of those few that stayed, dident leave, dident want to leave, and lived there for quite alot of many years... And both sides done some bad things in this equation, question remains, how you the Caldari and the Gallante can solve it... and i for one sincerly hope you can, i have some exellent cooperation with the Caldari as i have with the Gallante...
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#126 - 2013-02-16 03:09:00 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:
Mr Louvaki

I dont disagree with you that its the Caldari homeworld, and you should have rights to it... im just point to the fact of those few that stayed, dident leave, dident want to leave, and lived there for quite alot of many years... And both sides done some bad things in this equation, question remains, how you the Caldari and the Gallante can solve it... and i for one sincerly hope you can, i have some exellent cooperation with the Caldari as i have with the Gallante...


Mrs. Ivory,

Of cource, the issue remains though we are not speaking of individual claim as per person, but racial claim. The biggest stickler is that there is little 'me' in regards to Caldari culture as opposed to 'we'. The concerns of the few will always be outweighted by the concerns of the many, and that is critical for understanding the position of the State. There are undoubtably people who wished to remain in the Federation and cared nothing for the return of the Caldari State, but in the grand scale that matters little when considering the overwhelming desire of the whole.

I have faith that this can be resolved peacefully, and I personally appreciate your input and support of the cause on the matter. I just hope that if nothing else is gained from this, that we can all leave with a better understanding of each others positions.

Respectfully,

Simon Malkov Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Corporate HQ
Federal Administration Information Center
Office Complex 781, Tier V
Luminaire VII (Caldari Prime)

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Knoot Enderas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#127 - 2013-02-16 14:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Knoot Enderas
Ahem. I am not used to chiming in here, but perhaps it will do no harm in my present situation.

It is clear to State Citizens of all persuasions that any peace with the Gallente must be an honourable peace. Such a peace entitles the State to self-governance in our own home. It is heartening to see that at least some Gallente see this, and their 'democratic' system of government may yet elect a leader that is willing to compromise along these lines.

But the matter is more complicated. For where would we be in this conflict if not for the staunch support of our Amarr allies? Would we not have been all-alone, the enemy of an entire cluster that has been poisoned against us by the lying vultures of the Gallente press?

Peace with the Federation is welcome, and eventually it must come. But it must also include a permanent and satisfactory settlement of the Minmatar issue. An honourable peace cannot be had if the State betrays its only ally for a separate deal.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#128 - 2013-02-16 16:25:45 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:

Miss Xuixien
To solve a equation by trying to add variables that only leads to making the equation harder to solve, is neither constructive nor possetive for the equation at hand !


Typical Gallente obfuscation. The equation is very simple actually:

The Gallenting conceding Caldari sovereignty and ownership of Caldari Prime = peace.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2013-02-16 16:46:18 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Typical Gallente obfuscation. The equation is very simple actually:

The Gallenting conceding Caldari sovereignty and ownership of Caldari Prime = peace.

It's funny how often the Amarr insist that the Gallente have no right to comment on the politics of their empire, but think that this rule does not apply in reverse.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#130 - 2013-02-16 22:36:43 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Typical Gallente obfuscation. The equation is very simple actually:

The Gallenting conceding Caldari sovereignty and ownership of Caldari Prime = peace.

It's funny how often the Amarr insist that the Gallente have no right to comment on the politics of their empire, but think that this rule does not apply in reverse.


You can't argue with her maths though. This is the crux of the matter, Andreus and all the twisting and bending in the universe will not affect the truth of this formula.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Knoot Enderas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#131 - 2013-02-16 23:21:35 UTC
Tuulinen-haan is right, as usual. Moreover, it seems a stretch to call Gallente Irridentism an internal policy.
Canthrop Howl
Doomheim
#132 - 2013-02-17 01:09:25 UTC
If only a great big wormhole might open up and swallow the entire planet, all this unpleasantness would be solved in an instant. I wonder who could do such a thing?
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#133 - 2013-03-03 00:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
Seeing as my fears seem justified by Blaque's words, I've update the OP:

Update 115.03.02
And so it begins:
Mentas Blaque wrote:
The Federation must do something. And it starts by striking at the threat in our midst, bandaging the wound, and then taking the fight directly to them.

There is little doubt in my mind that he's referring to the Leviathan in Luminaire. The time for discussion is over, it's time for each of us to decide where we stand and take action.

Blaque is a fool for making such statements. this will only ensure that more lives are lost, as the State will prepare for the attack. One of the few hopes I have left, is that the statement was made to misdirect the State, threatening one target, and attacking another.
It could also cause the commander of the titan to warp of to Gallente Prime due to stress and an inconveniently timed fly-by of a FDU fleet.

So I add the following to my petition, which I shall send again, and to more people:

  • I urge the capsuleers in the FDU and the men and women in the Federation Navy to not issue or follow any order to attack the Leviathan in Luminaire, at least as long as the Titan does not take hostile action itself.
  • I petition CONCORD to take immediate action in order to prevent an attack on the Luminiare Leviathan.
  • I urge the commander of the Luminaire Leviathan to stay calm and level-headed. Do not let the citizens of Luminaire pay the price for the words and actions of Blaque and those in the Federation government like him. I'm hoping you'll consider the lives of your crew and withdraw the titan to State space. I know you probably consider it your duty to protect your homeworld, you can not be certain that staying in Luminaire would be the best way to do so.
  • I petition (the) Roden (administration) to relieve Mentas Blaque of his position, and distance yourself from his words and assure that the titan shall not be attacked.
  • I urge capsuleers, especially Gallente ones, to fly to the titan (in a non-threatening ship) and picket in order to demonstrate our opposition to an attack, and our wish for a peaceful resolution. I will join you when able.
  • I urge all New Eden citizens to make similar petitions and send them to you government and CONCORD representatives NOW!

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#134 - 2013-03-03 07:15:13 UTC
I think it may be too late Pilot Biko. Neither side wants peace, they only wish to rehash old grievances and blame the other for the evils of the universe. Since these fools can't seem to live together I guess they'll die together. I'll once again try to convince my family to leave the Luminaire system before all hell breaks loose.

Enjoy your charred worlds and the stench of the dead. What's left of humanity after the smoke clears will not mourn your passing.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Seireiki
Doomheim
#135 - 2013-03-03 08:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Seireiki
Anabella Rella wrote:
Neither side wants peace, they only wish to rehash old grievances and blame the other for the evils of the universe. Since these fools can't seem to live together I guess they'll die together.


I know I'm new here, but doesn't this seem a bit like the pot calling the kettle black?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#136 - 2013-03-03 10:02:02 UTC
Dear doves & hawks. May I present you a brief history lesson.
I will call it 'The reason the Titan is in orbit'

The titan is not in orbit to warp to gallente prime and attack it. I quite imagine by now that the Gallente Navy is quite well set up to stop such an attempt anyway, since the titan is warping from a known point, so can easily be trapped in a bubble, and is probably monitored by covert ops frigates to give whole minutes of warning and an exact warp vector if it tried to do so.
The titan is also not in orbit to be a symbol to scare the Gallente.

The titan however is in orbit with it's guns pointing at millions of Gallente civilians trapped & held hostage on Caldari Prime.
And Mr Heth has stated that on any attack against Caldari Prime the Titan has orders to open fire on those hostages.

When you are discussing the presence of the titan, please try to remember this small reason, and not get distracted by poor strategies such as frontal assaulting Gallente Prime with the titan instead as the basis of your negotiations.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#137 - 2013-03-03 16:52:09 UTC
Seireiki wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Neither side wants peace, they only wish to rehash old grievances and blame the other for the evils of the universe. Since these fools can't seem to live together I guess they'll die together.


I know I'm new here, but doesn't this seem a bit like the pot calling the kettle black?


No.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Pierre Echerie
Horseshoe Industries
#138 - 2013-03-04 16:39:24 UTC
Just got out of a hospital - and look what I see! Pots and kettles, old grudges, and a titan to add. Funny how reasons, laws and all that secondary bullshine got mentioned here a lot, yet the really important part was only vaguely referenced in one question: what does everyone want? Politicians can talk about anything, but the real thing they care about are goals.

Now, for the sake of clearing things out, let us try to identify those. And keep in mind also, that there are different kinds of goals, including internal ones involved.

Caldari:
- get their homeworld back (obvious)
- stay in power (Heth and his gang)
- payback, vendetta, all that crap (bittervets)
- make some profit (weapon manufacturers)

Gallente
- prevent the formation of a military base in their home system
- stay in power under the patriotic affair (present administration)
- revenge (same kind of bittervets)
- stay home (the guys and gals that happen to live on Caldari Prime - please note how I reference that planet)

Now this is where the fun starts.
The first goals are antagonistic and generally well-known.
Second goals are actually very sweet, as they are mutually beneficial - as long as there is some serious threat, both leaders stand better chances of keeping their chairs.
Third goals require no further comments, while the fourth pair is a problem very difficult to solve. Especially the current gallente citizens. But make no mistake, to both sides they are nothing more than a political instrument.

So, unless I am mistaken, we are bound to see more hostilities, hot or cold, for the mere sake of political interests of our #glorious# leaders.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#139 - 2013-03-04 22:08:01 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Typical Gallente obfuscation. The equation is very simple actually:

The Gallenting conceding Caldari sovereignty and ownership of Caldari Prime = peace.

It's funny how often the Amarr insist that the Gallente have no right to comment on the politics of their empire, but think that this rule does not apply in reverse.


You can't argue with her maths though. This is the crux of the matter, Andreus and all the twisting and bending in the universe will not affect the truth of this formula.


Actually, I am not so sure it is true.

It only means peace for the Caldari (and even for that, I am not totally sure either).

Peace usually involves both parties.

Seireiki wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Neither side wants peace, they only wish to rehash old grievances and blame the other for the evils of the universe. Since these fools can't seem to live together I guess they'll die together.


I know I'm new here, but doesn't this seem a bit like the pot calling the kettle black?


I think it is quite obvious.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#140 - 2013-03-06 00:27:25 UTC
Well, there's good news, and bad news:

The responses I've recieved so far amount to little more than "We have recieved your petition".
This is the reponse I recieved from the Inner Circle:
Keraimo Hakanuro wrote:
We're well aware of your petition, and have looked over it several times since it was inititally broadcast. In the same respect, the CONCORD Assembly has its mandate, and is obliged by interstellar law to follow it.

While we can appreciate your sentiments, such a thing as universal peace is very wishful thinking.
I interpret this as meaning that some or all of my suggestions are not possible under their current mandate, at least without the consent of the involved parties. However, their interest indicates to me that they are also looking for ways to solve the Luminiare problem, or at least prevent it from escalating. I can only hope that the Inner Circle is currently facilitating diplomatic negotiations between the State and the Federation, perhaps even bringing some suggestions of mine and others to the table.

On a side note, nowhere in the petition did I make mention of "universal peace", but as it is indeed something that I would like to see, I can only assume that for some reason they checked my background and Hakanuro wanted me to keep my feet on the ground. Well, Mr. Hakanuro, if you are still following this; it is appreciated, but not necessary.

And while Blaque has not been removed from his position, at least he's been publicly reproved by Roden. While I was hoping for more, it's the best thing I've seen the Federation president do in a long time.

I also wish to apologize to the people picketing in Luminaire for not being there with them. The past days have been quite hectic for me, and I'm not sure that will be any different in the coming days.

Peace,

-Ché Biko

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate