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Crime & Punishment

 
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CCP: To Catch an Awoxer, where do we draw the line?

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Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#21 - 2013-03-02 11:17:50 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:

So CCP please grant us the tools required to stop spies.


Join an NPC corporation or create your own 1-man corp and suddenly awoxing is not a problem. Otherwise no. Everything has risk. Including corp ownership. The bigger the corp, the greater the risk. Be careful as to who you let in your corp, be especially careful as to who you give roles to, and for GOD'S SAKE WHEN WILL YOU LEARN NOT TO LEAVE CAPITAL SHIPS FLOATING IN A POS BUBBLE HOW STUPID ARE YOU PEOPLE?

Corps that get "awoxed" deserve to be awoxed in my opinion. Alliances are more complicated because usually the victims have nothing to do with the recruitment process but still if you don't reset the awoxer's corp immediately thats your probelm.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-03-02 11:22:14 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
if you don't reset the awoxer's corp immediately thats your probelm.

Bit overkill, isn't it?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#23 - 2013-03-02 11:33:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Bit overkill, isn't it?


You play EVE and you're worried about overkill? Big smile
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-03-02 11:37:11 UTC
Well when it comes to my alliance I'd hope the leadership is more sensible than to kick an entire corp (even if temporarily) merely because one of their members turned out to be an awoxer.
I'm pretty sure they do, but I don't remember the last time we actually had an awoxer so I can't say for certain.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Spurty
#25 - 2013-03-02 13:09:55 UTC
Where's the part about how you actually catch the AWOXer?

There's talk about how people get into corps and what they do there, but little evidence on how to verify someone as such a player?

You're taking this space ships game way too seriously. Lay down for a bit

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Whitehound
#26 - 2013-03-02 13:12:23 UTC
Spurty wrote:
You're taking this space ships game way too seriously. Lay down for a bit

You have not met Tom yet. He is only getting up.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-03-02 13:16:23 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
All of these out-of-game tools can be used and have been used to find out who doesn't belong. Most of them are borderline or cross the line to "Creepy".


Much like your posting.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-03-02 13:19:06 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Where's the part about how you actually catch the AWOXer?

There's talk about how people get into corps and what they do there, but little evidence on how to verify someone as such a player?

You're taking this space ships game way too seriously. Lay down for a bit



The only way to catch an awoxer is to read some tea leaves, follow your gut instinct or wait for him to make a mistake.

Don't ban me, bro!
Whitehound
#29 - 2013-03-02 13:34:34 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
The only way to catch an awoxer is to read some tea leaves, follow your gut instinct or wait for him to make a mistake.

The term "catch" is rather misleading. Once you find an awoxer will there be nothing left to catch, because your stuff will be in his hangar and therefore unreachable. Prevention is still the best method. Limit your assets to what is essential, do not stock or hoard stuff you do not need. Run your industry like a just-in-time production. Divide all access, have separate corporations and never give anyone full access. I could just say "do not trust anybody", but it is not about trust but really about being smart. One can trust others and still be smart about how one operates.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-03-02 13:48:01 UTC
Oh overpowered alliances and your "problems".

Let the tears flow.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#31 - 2013-03-02 14:09:55 UTC
So what do you propose for a "solution" Tom?

Corp officers having the ability to see into private hangers and to see ship fits without a scanner would help, so they could look for Cyno's at any time.

but what other ways can an Awoxer be caught before its too late?
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-03-02 15:40:01 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
The amount of damage a spy can inflict is disproportional to the amount of defense offered. No alliance in EVE is immune to this threat, as a matter of fact the poster child for spying "Awox" is a verb to even the newest players of EVE learn.

Awoxing is basically the act of placing a member within a hostile alliance and betraying that alliance to tackle and cyno hell down upon your unsuspecting alliance mates. This term originates from an actual player named "Awox"

So what the hell do we do about it?

In EVE our toolbox is empty, so our real power comes from "outside" and this right here folks is where the line is crossed.

+ Making friends via 3rd party activities (Guilds, clans, etc)
+ Using facebook information to present yourself as a former classmate. (Dale from the Latin Club)
+ Selling yourself as a potential business partner who could land you a big sale! (Toyota Dealership in Detroit Michican)
+ Setting up a meet IRL (2012 EVE Vegas)

All of these out-of-game tools can be used and have been used to find out who doesn't belong. Most of them are borderline or cross the line to "Creepy".


So CCP please grant us the tools required to stop spies.

"Golly Mr. Gerard, you sure have given us a lot to think about."

But wait there's more!

I have been given the dubious honor of revealing a awoxer! =) This bit of information may not be relevant to most of you but should be a *popcorn* event for those who are.

Kaylee Jakuard the "Industry Captain" of Imperial Guardians, and member of the Tribal Band alliance, is actually an informant for the alliance Black Legion.



Its not CCPs job to do background checks on potential employees. Thats up to your corps leadership.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#33 - 2013-03-02 16:53:18 UTC
Moving this from General Discussion to Crime and Punishment.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-03-02 18:55:25 UTC
Wow, a counter has already been provided for awoxers and still this thread persists?

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Jess Tanner
Bangworks Systems Inc.
#35 - 2013-03-02 23:33:03 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
The amount of damage a spy can inflict is disproportional to the amount of defense offered. No alliance in EVE is immune to this threat, as a matter of fact the poster child for spying "Awox" is a verb to even the newest players of EVE learn.

Awoxing is basically the act of placing a member within a hostile alliance and betraying that alliance to tackle and cyno hell down upon your unsuspecting alliance mates. This term originates from an actual player named "Awox"

So what the hell do we do about it?

In EVE our toolbox is empty, so our real power comes from "outside" and this right here folks is where the line is crossed.

+ Making friends via 3rd party activities (Guilds, clans, etc)
+ Using facebook information to present yourself as a former classmate. (Dale from the Latin Club)
+ Selling yourself as a potential business partner who could land you a big sale! (Toyota Dealership in Detroit Michican)
+ Setting up a meet IRL (2012 EVE Vegas)

All of these out-of-game tools can be used and have been used to find out who doesn't belong. Most of them are borderline or cross the line to "Creepy".


So CCP please grant us the tools required to stop spies.

"Golly Mr. Gerard, you sure have given us a lot to think about."

But wait there's more!

I have been given the dubious honor of revealing a awoxer! =) This bit of information may not be relevant to most of you but should be a *popcorn* event for those who are.

Kaylee Jakuard the "Industry Captain" of Imperial Guardians, and member of the Tribal Band alliance, is actually an informant for the alliance Black Legion.



Link provided to me by the most annoying person I've met, this week...

Go with Bob, keep Him always in your heart. He is your Sword, Shield, and the Knife in your back.
Jess Tanner
Bangworks Systems Inc.
#36 - 2013-03-02 23:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jess Tanner
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#37 - 2013-03-02 23:39:34 UTC
So you want to Chris Hansen anyone who joins your corp?

I'm down with that
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-03-04 00:33:08 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Bit overkill, isn't it?


You play EVE and you're worried about overkill? Big smile


There is no such thing as overkill. There is only under-targeting.

to the OP:

Demand an API. Study it. Have newbs join a newb corp, and recruit the competent out of that. Only recruit out of an IRL organization, so there are actual consequences for screwing you over.

Ultimately, the problem here will always be trust, and people who don't make others earn it.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#39 - 2013-03-04 11:56:41 UTC
Spies are part of EVE. If you can't accept that then there are other games you could try.

I mean god damn, CCP actively promoted infiltrating an enemy and ruining their corp in one of the promotional videos
Professional Forum Alt
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-03-04 12:38:50 UTC
There is a thread on the "Features & Ideas Discussion" about this subject too.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=210905

Simple idea - Remove legal killing of corp mates. Why is actually allowed ?

This is Angelica Everstar's alt