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Warfare Links
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John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#21 - 2013-02-26 10:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: John Ratcliffe
Kasutra wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
But, the question should be: why the hell do people run L4 missions in the first place... there are so many better choices.

-Liang

I assume it's for fun or because they can.

*shrug*


I enjoy running Lvl 4s. So do the other guys in my Corp.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Ohishi
Apocalypse Reign
#22 - 2013-02-26 11:31:09 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Man, you spend a million on your frigs? You're such a rich pimp baller dude.

-Liang

Warp stabs aren't cheap.

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought.

Lynkon Lawg
Second Six Corporation
#23 - 2013-03-01 21:06:49 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Akturous wrote:
You only get shield HP from the Siege Warfare skill and the mindlink, you don't get any shield from the links.

Your booster must be in squad cmd position with the squad booster role and you must be a squad member in that squad. You must both be undocked in the same system and uncloaked.


My understanding is that the Seige Warfare skill offers 10% bonus, the Seige Mindlink replaces it with a 15% bonus. Correct?


Correct. The Siege Warfare Mindlink SECONDARY benefit is that it replaces Siege Warfare skill bonus (2% Shield Increase per Skill Level) with a straight 15%. This is in addition to the 50% increase of the command bonus of the siege warfare modules.
Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#24 - 2013-03-01 21:46:32 UTC
just don't ask for your sp to be refunded when offgrid boosting gets nerfed.

Some first-hand PI tips
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#25 - 2013-03-01 23:58:33 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Akturous wrote:
You only get shield HP from the Siege Warfare skill and the mindlink, you don't get any shield from the links.

Your booster must be in squad cmd position with the squad booster role and you must be a squad member in that squad. You must both be undocked in the same system and uncloaked.


My understanding is that the Seige Warfare skill offers 10% bonus, the Seige Mindlink replaces it with a 15% bonus. Correct?

The T2 links will provide you with:
Boosts to resists of 12.5%, with the Shield harmonizing
Reduces the cycle time of shield boosters by 12.5%, with Active Shielding
Reduces the capacitor needed for boosters by 12.5%, With Shield Efficiency
(Important to note that if you run the Active Shielding without the Shield Efficiency some cap stable fits will become unstable.)

The Mindlink will give you an additional 50% on those boosts, adding 6.25% on top of the 12.5% for a total of 18.75%. And the ships skill will increase them by another 3% per level for the Vulture command ship or 5% per level with a Tengu (until CCP changes that very soon).

The 15% Command ships boost to command links can be added to the original modifier, adding 1.875% effectiveness to the Links: Or 25% for the Tengu or 3.125% on top of the original link.

So 12.5%(Command Links) + 6.25%(Mindlink) + 1.85%(Vulture) = 20.5% (give or take) and 21.87% with Tengu booster, more effective modules, considerably more than all but the most ridiculously expensive Officer modules.

Probably why they have a bit of a Nerf coming.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-03-02 14:35:58 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Akturous wrote:
You only get shield HP from the Siege Warfare skill and the mindlink, you don't get any shield from the links.

Your booster must be in squad cmd position with the squad booster role and you must be a squad member in that squad. You must both be undocked in the same system and uncloaked.


My understanding is that the Seige Warfare skill offers 10% bonus, the Seige Mindlink replaces it with a 15% bonus. Correct?

The T2 links will provide you with:
Boosts to resists of 12.5%, with the Shield harmonizing
Reduces the cycle time of shield boosters by 12.5%, with Active Shielding
Reduces the capacitor needed for boosters by 12.5%, With Shield Efficiency
(Important to note that if you run the Active Shielding without the Shield Efficiency some cap stable fits will become unstable.)

The Mindlink will give you an additional 50% on those boosts, adding 6.25% on top of the 12.5% for a total of 18.75%. And the ships skill will increase them by another 3% per level for the Vulture command ship or 5% per level with a Tengu (until CCP changes that very soon).

The 15% Command ships boost to command links can be added to the original modifier, adding 1.875% effectiveness to the Links: Or 25% for the Tengu or 3.125% on top of the original link.

So 12.5%(Command Links) + 6.25%(Mindlink) + 1.85%(Vulture) = 20.5% (give or take) and 21.87% with Tengu booster, more effective modules, considerably more than all but the most ridiculously expensive Officer modules.

Probably why they have a bit of a Nerf coming.


You are forgetting the warfare link specialist bonus (extra 50% boost on top of what you already have).

So assuming no skills, a t2 shield harmonizing link gives 2.5% bonus.
Taking seige warfare specialist to lvl 5 takes you to 12.5%.
Adding warfare link specialist, 50% bonus to link effectiveness: 18.75%
Adding in mindlink: 28.125%
running all the above in a vulture: 32.3%
running all of the above in a tengu: 35.15%

So, yeah. Having a tengu with max skilled booster and mindlink is like adding a CN invuln to your ship. The total increase between running with no links and running with a full set of links is close to 100% (depending upon how stack nerfed the resists are).
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#27 - 2013-03-02 15:41:44 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Akturous wrote:
You only get shield HP from the Siege Warfare skill and the mindlink, you don't get any shield from the links.

Your booster must be in squad cmd position with the squad booster role and you must be a squad member in that squad. You must both be undocked in the same system and uncloaked.


My understanding is that the Seige Warfare skill offers 10% bonus, the Seige Mindlink replaces it with a 15% bonus. Correct?

The T2 links will provide you with:
Boosts to resists of 12.5%, with the Shield harmonizing
Reduces the cycle time of shield boosters by 12.5%, with Active Shielding
Reduces the capacitor needed for boosters by 12.5%, With Shield Efficiency
(Important to note that if you run the Active Shielding without the Shield Efficiency some cap stable fits will become unstable.)

The Mindlink will give you an additional 50% on those boosts, adding 6.25% on top of the 12.5% for a total of 18.75%. And the ships skill will increase them by another 3% per level for the Vulture command ship or 5% per level with a Tengu (until CCP changes that very soon).

The 15% Command ships boost to command links can be added to the original modifier, adding 1.875% effectiveness to the Links: Or 25% for the Tengu or 3.125% on top of the original link.

So 12.5%(Command Links) + 6.25%(Mindlink) + 1.85%(Vulture) = 20.5% (give or take) and 21.87% with Tengu booster, more effective modules, considerably more than all but the most ridiculously expensive Officer modules.

Probably why they have a bit of a Nerf coming.


You are forgetting the warfare link specialist bonus (extra 50% boost on top of what you already have).

So assuming no skills, a t2 shield harmonizing link gives 2.5% bonus.
Taking seige warfare specialist to lvl 5 takes you to 12.5%.
Adding warfare link specialist, 50% bonus to link effectiveness: 18.75%
Adding in mindlink: 28.125%
running all the above in a vulture: 32.3%
running all of the above in a tengu: 35.15%

So, yeah. Having a tengu with max skilled booster and mindlink is like adding a CN invuln to your ship. The total increase between running with no links and running with a full set of links is close to 100% (depending upon how stack nerfed the resists are).

My figures might be a little off but not that much the exact wording on the Mindlink is:

50% increase to the command bonus of Siege Warfare Link modules.

Replaces Siege Warfare skill bonus with fixed 15% shield HP bonus.

So the skill for Links is no longer figured into the total bonus, but of course you cant use it till you skill them all the way, so it's a mute point.

Primarily I know a 60% resist becomes a 70% resist when I turn on my Vulture Booster, and the cycle times of remote reps drops from 4.5s to 3.2s a decent Boost for 6 months of training, Plex, and logistics.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2013-03-02 19:12:33 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Kasutra wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
I like how people throw billions of isk on lvl 4's when you can do them in a t2 fitted BS...

It's not about the ISK. It's about sending a message.


Back when I was running L4s, I'd have expected a 2-3 billion ISK fit to net me 80-100M ISK/hr (in high sec). A regular T2 fit on a T1 BS wasn't getting anywhere near that, topping out at maybe 40M ISK/hr. So is dropping 2 billion ISK now and doubling my income a good choice? Yeah, probably.

But, the question should be: why the hell do people run L4 missions in the first place... there are so many better choices.

-Liang


A faction fitted machariel does NOT finish missions twice as fast as a t2 fitted.

Not even close.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#29 - 2013-03-02 19:27:23 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


A faction fitted machariel does NOT finish missions twice as fast as a t2 fitted.

Not even close.


My expierience has been that my 1400 dps Faction fitted Machariel finishes missions faster than a 1000 dps T2 Varient.

Might not be twice as fast but it is certaintly faster.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#30 - 2013-03-02 20:11:48 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


A faction fitted machariel does NOT finish missions twice as fast as a t2 fitted.

Not even close.


My expierience has been that my 1400 dps Faction fitted Machariel finishes missions faster than a 1000 dps T2 Varient.

Might not be twice as fast but it is certaintly faster.


What, a T2 mach can't use implants like your 1400 Mach?
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#31 - 2013-03-02 20:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


A faction fitted machariel does NOT finish missions twice as fast as a t2 fitted.

Not even close.


My expierience has been that my 1400 dps Faction fitted Machariel finishes missions faster than a 1000 dps T2 Varient.

Might not be twice as fast but it is certaintly faster.


What, a T2 mach can't use implants like your 1400 Mach?


Not sure what your saying, I use an 800mm autocannon mach getting 1400 DPS and a 1400 Arty mach at a 1000 DPS (same ship different fits). Yes a set of +6% Implants, and T2 guns, Certaintly not faction guns, as the bonus to dammage only applies to the T2 varients.

I have an alt that a few months ago was flying a mach as well, but no faction lows when I started doing missions with it. The DPS was noticeably lower and completion time for missions done on the alt were considerably slower. Never put a calculator to it, just put a set of faction gyros and tracking enhancers on, and went on my merry way.

My standard Mission pay is 60 mil per toon/per hour could do better or worse depending on the missions Que. Of course I trade off between running Incursions (120mil/h), Epic Arcs(90 to 110mil/h), Missions(60mil/h) Industry(?), and Roams (-ISK) as my gamestyle.

My point was only that the extra 400 dps removes 24,000 HP off the field per minute. Considering that in a ten minute missions it removes 1,440,000 hp faster that a 1000dps ship.

But what does this have to do with warfare links?

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#32 - 2013-03-02 21:12:18 UTC
That's a good question. This thread's so far off topic.
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