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War Dodge Clarification Needed
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Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#121 - 2013-03-01 16:39:10 UTC
re: mutually fun PvP

What if kills between wardec'd corps generated Concord LP using the faction warfare system?

Possibly with a higher rate of return for the defender than the attacker, to give them some motivation for actually getting out and killing the attackers?
Spurty
#122 - 2013-03-01 16:53:52 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
It's not an exploit.

If people are leaving the corp you war decced en masse then mission accomplished, you won.



This! YOU WIN! Well played with your war.

You did want to destroy the corp right?

If you're just after killmails, you'd be in low sec / null sec.

Or are you an EThug?

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2013-03-01 17:04:06 UTC
You know, a thought occurred to me, which is pretty rare, I know. I've noticed an uptick in the number of "Wardec evasion fix it CCP" threads on the forums the last month or so, even though nothing has really changed in the mechanics in that time.

My thought was really a question - where is this coming from? And that makes me wonder if what's really happening is the BBD (Big Blue Doughnut) is starving the PvPers in nullsec of their fun, so they've come to highsec hoping to have some pew, only to realize that there even fewer people there to shoot.

I have to admit, if it wasn't for Unclaimed. and the occasional Unthinkables gang, there would be very few targets in our area of the map within what I call a reasonable roaming range (I'm not jumping 45 gates just for the off chance that something might explode - that's ludicrous). It just makes me think that maybe we're finally starting to see another effect of Sov Null being a giant hug fest for the most part (the ongoing war between Solar + friends against the N3 being the only large scale exception I know of).

Thoughts on that?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2013-03-01 17:49:01 UTC
Sal Landry wrote:
re: mutually fun PvP

What if kills between wardec'd corps generated Concord LP using the faction warfare system?

Possibly with a higher rate of return for the defender than the attacker, to give them some motivation for actually getting out and killing the attackers?


I like it. But seems it should only apply to the defender. Attacker obviously already has a motivation to fight. Mutual wars can award it to both or neither.
0Lona 0ltor
Adeptio Gloriae
#125 - 2013-03-01 17:52:28 UTC
Yeah, how about we cut all the crap in this thread and implement a 7 day war follow for any one who craps themselves and drops corp?
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2013-03-01 17:53:50 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:

My thought was really a question - where is this coming from? And that makes me wonder if what's really happening is the BBD (Big Blue Doughnut) is starving the PvPers in nullsec of their fun, so they've come to highsec hoping to have some pew, only to realize that there even fewer people there to shoot.


Probably a bit true. There's not many people to shoot in null, because there aren't that many truly worthwhile activities in null. There's a 34 page threadnaught in GD about how unviable mining and industry is. Sanctums vs level 4 missions and Incursions is kindof a thing aswell.
0Lona 0ltor
Adeptio Gloriae
#127 - 2013-03-01 17:57:51 UTC
Adding this 7 day war follow while preventing vets from entering NPC corps would be a simple and easy to implement nerf to high sec. No longer will people be able to make zero risk isk.
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#128 - 2013-03-01 18:01:51 UTC
0Lona 0ltor wrote:
Yeah, how about we cut all the crap in this thread and implement a 7 day war follow for any one who craps themselves and drops corp?


war is between 2 entities, not between a corp and a single individual.

Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
#129 - 2013-03-01 19:13:27 UTC
What's a wardec?

Proud member of the New Order of HighSec
Whitehound
#130 - 2013-03-01 19:26:35 UTC
Vin King wrote:
What's a wardec?

Better ask what's a war cry as this seems to have a new definition.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#131 - 2013-03-01 19:49:30 UTC
Adaahh Gee wrote:
Put yourself in the shoes of an average miner in Eve

Ah, but the average miner/industrialist/mission runner/trader/whatever is in an NPC corp or a one man shell corp to evade wardecs! Only new or bad players or players looking for ship combat would choose to be a target for war in the first place.

The solution isn't to protect these awful corps, or to shut down a style of gameplay completely, but to involve more people who have the resources and skill to fight back. If these skilled players had a reason to use their resources and skill to prevent anything bad from happening to them during a wardec, we wouldn't have this issue of 70-80% of wardecs being grief wardecs.

When the most attractive (and pretty much only) option as a highsec wardec group is to beat up on new players, don't be surprised when that's all that happens.
Whitehound
#132 - 2013-03-01 19:54:35 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Adaahh Gee wrote:
Put yourself in the shoes of an average miner in Eve

Ah, but the average miner/industrialist/mission runner/trader/whatever ...

So far have war-decs caused tears with the average miners. Now look at all the tears by war-deccers. Roll

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2013-03-01 20:00:16 UTC
EI Digin wrote:


When the most attractive (and pretty much only) option as a highsec wardec group is to beat up on new players...


Your assumption is flawed.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#134 - 2013-03-01 20:05:15 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
EI Digin wrote:


When the most attractive (and pretty much only) option as a highsec wardec group is to beat up on new players...


Your assumption is flawed.


Is it?
Zack Korth
Livid CO.
#135 - 2013-03-01 20:08:13 UTC
lol so many tears, if you want to kill them badly enough, be a man and suicide gank them. you're just trying to war-dec high sec corps to explode haulers and steal assets- and your mad because they found an effortless work around? as opposed to gladly undocking jita 4-4 and handing over their hard earned iskies? ohhh poor you.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2013-03-01 20:14:50 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
EI Digin wrote:


When the most attractive (and pretty much only) option as a highsec wardec group is to beat up on new players...


Your assumption is flawed.


Is it?


Yes. While it might be the most attractive option (to you and yours), it is certainly not the only option available. There are a decent number of corps operating in highsec that won't disband because of a dec and contain experienced pilots.

You have to ask what your real motivation is for starting the war in the first place. If all you want is gudfites, dec another pvp alliance. They're the most likely to actually fight you, or they risk ruining their own reputation.

If you want to drive off a competitor, shooting them is actually not required to win the war - having them leave, or simply remain docked while you lay claim to their potential resources is winning, based on the initial goal.

Market rivals - deccing them is next to pointless anyway since dedicated trade characters rarely, if ever, undock. You'll have more impact by trying to identify and gank their shipments than you will be deccing them directly.

But if you wardec a five man industrial corp expecting them to man-up and provide you with gudfites, you're just deluding yourself. They won't do it (unless they're simply really into PvP or they're masochistic) - and they have absolutely no reason to. Even if the mechanic changed today, all that would happen is people would start having two sets of alts, one for wardecs in NPC corps, and one for non wardecs in their player corps. It wouldn't change their behavior a wit - just which character the log into.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#137 - 2013-03-01 21:28:47 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Yes. While it might be the most attractive option (to you and yours), it is certainly not the only option available. There are a decent number of corps operating in highsec that won't disband because of a dec and contain experienced pilots.
Not nearly enough though, because 70-80% of the wardecs are "grief wars". If there were more good corps out there, this number would be a lot lower.

De'Veldrin wrote:

If you want to drive off a competitor, shooting them is actually not required to win the war - having them leave, or simply remain docked while you lay claim to their potential resources is winning, based on the initial goal.

Market rivals - deccing them is next to pointless anyway since dedicated trade characters rarely, if ever, undock. You'll have more impact by trying to identify and gank their shipments than you will be deccing them directly

But if you wardec a five man industrial corp expecting them to man-up and provide you with gudfites, you're just deluding yourself. They won't do it (unless they're simply really into PvP or they're masochistic) - and they have absolutely no reason to. Even if the mechanic changed today, all that would happen is people would start having two sets of alts, one for wardecs in NPC corps, and one for non wardecs in their player corps. It wouldn't change their behavior a wit - just which character the log into.
Sure people can live in smaller packs, and choose not to use diplomacy tools like finding players like them to assist during wars or joining an alliance. But if they are wardecced, they can use in game mechanics (the ally system and mercenaries, arguably the bounty system) to provide gudfites without ever having to undock.

Do you know why hardly anyone hires mercenaries, or bothers to look for allies? It's because those who are wardecced are poor, inexperienced and have a very small amount of contacts. Most of the players who have the tools to hire mercenaries or to create power blocs simply don't have to, because they receive the same (if not better) benefit for no cost. There would be a lot less grief wars if mercs were more affordable, which is only solvable by having more competition (if there's higher demand, there will be more supply), or if older players that could afford mercs would hire them and have their protection ability "trickle down" on younger and poorer players who they enjoy playing with.
Whitehound
#138 - 2013-03-01 21:41:01 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Do you know why hardly anyone hires mercenaries, or bothers to look for allies?

For every war where a party is open for allies can one find (on average) one ally.

Why then care for those who are not open for allies? They might just be sitting docked or not login at all.

Seems just working fine.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-03-01 21:46:55 UTC
EI Digin wrote:

Do you know why hardly anyone hires mercenaries, or bothers to look for allies? It's because those who are wardecced are poor, inexperienced and have a very small amount of contacts. Most of the players who have the tools to hire mercenaries or to create power blocs simply don't have to, because they receive the same (if not better) benefit for no cost. There would be a lot less grief wars if mercs were more affordable, which is only solvable by having more competition (if there's higher demand, there will be more supply), or if older players that could afford mercs would hire them and have their protection ability "trickle down" on younger and poorer players who they enjoy playing with.

A greater reason for not hiring allies is that it's an inferior solution to just dropping corp. Hiring mercenaries doesn't allow you to bypass the fact that there is a war going on. It still keeps you partially locked down. In the end you are paying isk to respond to someones aggression when you could avoid it altogether.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#140 - 2013-03-01 21:56:59 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
EI Digin wrote:

Do you know why hardly anyone hires mercenaries, or bothers to look for allies? It's because those who are wardecced are poor, inexperienced and have a very small amount of contacts. Most of the players who have the tools to hire mercenaries or to create power blocs simply don't have to, because they receive the same (if not better) benefit for no cost. There would be a lot less grief wars if mercs were more affordable, which is only solvable by having more competition (if there's higher demand, there will be more supply), or if older players that could afford mercs would hire them and have their protection ability "trickle down" on younger and poorer players who they enjoy playing with.

A greater reason for not hiring allies is that it's an inferior solution to just dropping corp. Hiring mercenaries doesn't allow you to bypass the fact that there is a war going on. It still keeps you partially locked down. In the end you are paying isk to respond to someones aggression when you could avoid it altogether.

Lrn2trvialize"highsec pvp"

Nerf ganking as well.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?