Missions & Complexes

tl;dr I ramble that in exploration, Risk ≠ Reward

Over the past few weeks there has been a lot of talk about players in T3 ships running sites in high-sec instead of moving to low-sec. Since I’ve lived in low for a while, and moved back to high, and do the T3 thing, I’ll try and explain.

T3s in High-sec DED 4/10s
There are players who will fly a T3 in high-sec. These are players who are after shiny loot and shiny loot alone (whether for ISK or gambling wins). They’re not interested in shooting NPCs or challenging sites. Equipped with an Expanded Probe Launcher (-99% CPU fitting bonus), they can ignore 80% of signatures with a single scan of a single probe. This lets them rapidly cover large amounts of solar systems cherry picking signatures and only running DED 4/10s. When they do run the sites, no amount of applied DPS is wasted because even if you’re killing NPCs 30 seconds faster than another ship, that 30 seconds can mean the difference between getting to the loot can first or having another player scoop half a billion in ISK from under your nose. Lastly, you have a good combination of tank and speed, all in one ship, without any compromise.

Low-sec and Risk
Moving to low-sec, you have to approach it from an entirely different angle. While most systems are empty, when there are players, they are usually looking for your killmail. Covert Ops Cloaks and MWD+Cloak give you a good chance of survival when you hit a gatecamp, but you still need to pay attention and effort. Living in low-sec means you constantly need to have situational awareness and take notice of who is in Local with you. It’s more fun and engaging, but it’s also effort that needs to be spent. Is there risk? Yes. Are you going to die the instant you jump in? No. As long as you take precautions, you'll probably survive. None-the-less, it requires something on your behalf.

Random is random
Now let’s move from risk and take a look at reward. In exploration, loot is random. The only thing a player can do to increase the amount of loot they run, is roll the dice more often, and get as many chances to open more loot cans. This is exactly what the aforementioned T3s are min/maxed to do: increase amount of solarsystems covered to find many signatures, be able to determine whether or not a signature may or may not be a DED 4/10 as fast as possible, and to complete the site as before someone else does.

In low-sec, every time you change solarsystems, there’s a chance you might lose your ship. When you find sites, they’re harder and take longer to run, keeping you exposed like a sitting duck for any passing player. And when any player in something bigger than a Shuttle shows up in Local, they’re a threat. All of these mean you’re running less sites and getting less dice rolls.

While the upper bound of loot in low is higher, and everyone loves that moment when the wreck rolls an A-type Medium Repper, Invuln/EANM, pirate cruiser BPC and implant, odds are still more likely you’re going to get empty wrecks. So what would you rather choose, given the same time period, 4 rolls at Cruiser C-type Medium Shield Booster, or 1 roll at an A-type?

My thoughts
Why should a newbie bother going to low-sec, dodging gatecamps, cloaking up from hostiles in local, and slowly grinding through a site only to get an empty wreck, when an older player can farm C-type Medium Shield Boosters in high-sec without paying attention or interacting with 99% of the other players in Local?

IMHO, players should be rewarded more for taking the risk to fly and run sites in hostile space (or space they’ve earned). If they’re putting in effort and paying attention to Local, scouting for gatecamps, knowing who the locals are and when and where they operate, that explorer should be rewarded more than someone whose only concern is whether a system is high-sec Caldari space. Players who are brave enough to jump out of high-sec should get greater rewards than those who are risk-adverse.

So, what do you think?
[ ] Exploration is fine, Working as Intended™
[ ] Exploration is broken, Risk ≠ Reward
[ ] High-sec exploration should be nerfed
[ ] Low-sec exploration should be buffed
[ ] Ban all T3 ships from high-sec exploration
[ ] Nerf Deep Space Probes

Don't change anything, hi-sec is way to crowded and increasing the rewards in low-sec is just going to destroy a place where exploration is actually fun. I gladly run the risk of exploring in low-sec, just to avoid the heavy competition in hi-sec, even if it means higher risk for the same reward.

hi sec exploration is ******** now.
all i get are mag sites these days.
and yes, cant stand the cherry pickers
but i assume Ill be doing it too before long.
so conclusion?
ccp needs to address this because there is the same amount of loot as when first started and probably 100x more explorers that have now the unforseen advantage of hand picking the sites these days...in hi sec.
as far as lo sec? I wont go there but when i have scanned some sites in lo sec...there were nice plexes i couldnt do cause i wasnt skilled enough to do so. and got some radars and NICE mags all in one system...hi sec mags absolutely are dumb.
the reward in lo sec is less competition at the moment.
hi sec needs to be looked at again...like to no t3 in ded 4's for starters.
tengus can bite me

Random guess is, more Nighthawks?
Abit slower on the AB, a little less range, but effectively the same

Scan bonus loss also means nothing if using a probe alt

With implants and proper skills, you could still use that NH solo as well if you have to
Only thing you miss out on are 3/10s, which still gives decent loot

Ofc, I've not ever used one, so I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong

Problem with that is, some players will just camp DED sites, and eventually noone will run them in high-sec
You'd need a gang to counter any gang already there, at which point, its no longer worth running the site unless you're after high-sec PvP

Of course, said gang would have an alt in the final pocket with orders to pop the AI Piñata if the trap in the first pocket goes bad ;)
And 90% of explorers won't leave high-sec for their ISK, they will either quit the game or do a different activity altogether

But regardless, Pros and Cons aside, we know CCP will never do it anyway

[x] Move all 4/10 to low-sec
[x] Fix 1/10 2/10 spawns as compensation
[x] Rename all Pithum\Gistum Invulns to Pith\Gist and adjust drop tables

Risk vs Reward?


Missions

I think everything is working as intended. The problem is that there's just not enough sites being spawned now due to an increase of players doing exploration and blitzing the sites.

As for those who cherry pick the sites to run, fine. I think the trigger for the Overseer spawn needs to be random. The sites shouldn't have the Overseer / Commander NPC appear until after all the guards have been destroyed. That will insure interaction with all of the content in the site. Sure this makes the site take longer to complete but if you think about it, that in turn will make it seem like there's more sites available.

Being able to fly and use a T3 Cruiser is the end game for an explorers equipment usage. If you want to encourage more players to go into low security and run the exploration sites there, then the sites need to be secure from gang invasions. Plain and simple. Getting there and finding the sites is where the PvP risk factor should be, not while inside the site dealing with PvE risk. Until that is changed, players are not going to do them.

I know, I know. People are gonna say this is a PvP game. I say fine. You have every option to PvP me while I'm trying to find the low sec sites. Hell, you could even try to PvP me in the first room of the DED / Combat sites. But after I get the key and access the next room, that gate should be locked again. Speaking of gates, I think all Radar / Mag sites should have a locked guarded gate leading to the deadspace location of cans.

Cry and whine all you want, majority of players are not going to leave high sec exploration without a measure of safety being implemented into the exploration sites.

Just the other night I found an Angel Vigil site in high security and yes, I was in a T3 Cruiser. There was no other players in system when I started it and while I was in the 1st room, 2 other players showed up in local. I killed all the NPC's in the first room, made the wrecks blue and then entered the 2nd room. First thing I did was destroy all the Stasis and Missile towers. These are triggers for more NPC spawns which I had no problem tanking. However, another player entered the room right after that. Maybe he scanned the site or maybe he scanned my ship, I don't know. He obviously knew I was in the site due to only 3 of us in Local and my wrecks were blue in the 1st room.

What I do know is right after he entered the 2nd room, all NPC's switched target lock onto him and he started moving away from the rat pack. Was excellent to see that. When he landed on grid, I decided to trigger the Overseer spawn and quickly collect the loot, especially since I was right next to it. I not only got the Faction loot drop, I also got the expedition. Meanwhile, I think this guy was having problems with tanking the NPC's due to him moving further away and then warping out, maybe due to me getting the Overseer kill.

Since there were other exploration sites in the system, I decided to go jump on them instead of finishing the current site. I usually partake in and complete all the content within the sites and rarely ever do a blitz. I save that as a last resort for when someone else tries to barge in on my site. Yes, you read that right. I said my site.

Anyway, the total amount of sites in the system was 12 but I had only bookmarked 7:

2x Angel DED 4/10
1x Angel DED 3/10
1x Angel Vigil
1x Angel Lookout
1x Angel Hideout
1x Angel Mag

Before I had even started the Vigil site I had completed the Lookout site. No Commander spawn and no expedition. I decided to run the DED 4/10's but lo and behold, those sites were no longer there. Obviously they had been blitzed so I quickly checked the DED 3/10 which was still active and untouched. One of the players in Local left the system, the one who tried to crash my party in the Vigil site. Probably due to no more high level exploration sites available.

While I was in the 3rd room of the DED 3/10, more players show up in local and after I get the Overseer and loot, salvage the wreck and warp out, one of them asks me about the 3/10 site due to my wrecks. Now the only reason he contacted me was because the site only had 3 rooms available instead of 5. Basically he asked what happened to the gate leading to the last 2 rooms. I told him the site was already completed.

Seems the mentality of players now is to try and screw over everyone else, no matter what. He knew I was in the site just like the other guy. No common courtesy what so ever. They don't care about partaking in all the content available or about enjoying the Dev's hard work. They just want to quickly blitz the site and grab Faction loot.

This is a major problem with exploration. I say make the triggers random and have the Overseer not spawn till all the NPC guards have been destroyed.

Wow, sorry about the long post. Anyway, that's what I think about exploration.


DMC

I couldn't decide which answer to pick, none of the options seemed appropriate. Then I saw this post. I might suggest increasing the 3/10s as well, because deadspace frigs are fun.

Sniped out the trash to show the hilarious parts.

I'm all in favor of this. Even if it means we have to have X-types . Frankly, that would be a huge hit to the largest farming "problems".

As for how broken high sec is: I have no idea. I know some of the hauls posted in the exploration channel are absolutely insane, and they do tend to be from people who chain 4/10s in Tengus.

Having said that, I'm not personally interested in chasing those people to low sec. I like low sec as it is. It's relatively quiet and sites are out there. I'm also not personally interested in changing DSP mechanics; I use them, I like them, and if I had to go back to scanning every sig in every system I'd be tempted to walk away from exploration entirely. (And yes, I know that you don't need DSPs for this, and yes, I know that I miss neat stuff by filtering, but I don't care; I want 6/10s.)

I dunno. Maybe there's something to be done to differentiate high sec 4/10s from low sec 4/10s. Either put an additional obstacle in place in high sec that reduces the ability to blitz or maybe improve the drop rate in low (or reduce drop rate in high?).

So maybe there's something in that combination. Move invulns to null, reduce high sec 4/10 drop rates, increase low sec 4/10 drop rates. You'll still see swarms of T3s in high I'm sure, but maybe some of them will at least bother to go afield once in a while.