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Is everything else a sideshow to level 4 missions when raising isk in highsec
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Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-10-27 23:17:19 UTC
You can snype Page 2's

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-10-27 23:55:06 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
I haven't used missions to make isk in years. I wouldn't say it's obsolete or out of style, but in terms of "things one alt can do to bank-roll your account(s)," missions are very much inferior to a good incursion fleet or a dilligent trader/industrialist both in profit and time required to realize that profit. I don't find the modest capital investment of either to be terrible difficut to muster. As you're pointing out there, missions are more than generous enough to provide seed money for a more passive revenue generator. Wormholes are also flush with resources to exploit, but I find them excessively tedious to operate in full-time.

Then again, if you're actually playing and enjoying the missions, more power to you. My point of view, and the reason I haven't run a mission in ages, is that missions are horrendously boring and i'll do anything to avoid them. Everything I do to "make isk," is essentially something I put up with to fund my pvp shenanigans. In most cases recently, my pvp hasn't been terribly expensive to keep up with, so I don't do much isk-making at all.




Basically i had a lot of spare time on my hands for once. 3 days of enjoyment (yes i like them, kinda)

and then i have a plex and 800 million to spend of pvp and with plat insurance and lasts a long time.

Standing in for Karn Dulake who was banned for saying bad words
Baphommet
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-10-28 00:24:32 UTC
I despise level 4 missioning.

-It's easy.
-It's very low risk.
-It's boring and repetitive.
-It's extremely lucrative.
-It has a variety of benefits in addition to ISK gain, such as sec status gain, faction standing gain, corp standing gain, access to free implants, etc.
-It makes mining in any space much less profitable (recycling is silly).
-It requires only combat related skills, most of which are useful in many other fields of work.

In fact, I hate highsec missioning so much that I'm almost genuinely upset about it.

Mining is a big part of why highsec is overpopulated and low/nullsec is not worth the trouble, income-wise.

Missions should be a side job, a way to earn income for pure combat pilots. NOT a huge source of resources.

AMEN - RAWR - RANT - OTHER THINGS!

Baphommet (quote me)

.
The Offerer
Doomheim
#24 - 2011-10-28 00:41:42 UTC
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
I haven't used missions to make isk in years. I wouldn't say it's obsolete or out of style, but in terms of "things one alt can do to bank-roll your account(s)," missions are very much inferior to a good incursion fleet or a dilligent trader/industrialist both in profit and time required to realize that profit. I don't find the modest capital investment of either to be terrible difficut to muster. As you're pointing out there, missions are more than generous enough to provide seed money for a more passive revenue generator. Wormholes are also flush with resources to exploit, but I find them excessively tedious to operate in full-time.

Then again, if you're actually playing and enjoying the missions, more power to you. My point of view, and the reason I haven't run a mission in ages, is that missions are horrendously boring and i'll do anything to avoid them. Everything I do to "make isk," is essentially something I put up with to fund my pvp shenanigans. In most cases recently, my pvp hasn't been terribly expensive to keep up with, so I don't do much isk-making at all.




Basically i had a lot of spare time on my hands for once. 3 days of enjoyment (yes i like them, kinda)

and then i have a plex and 800 million to spend of pvp and with plat insurance and lasts a long time.


That's exactly the point. I can not remember the last time I had enough free time and nothing else to do except playing this game. I think that I had a similar situation last summer when I was unemployed, but I can't say for sure. I don't like being unemployed, so I've looked for a job actively instead of playing the game. And then there's family, girlfriend, going out with friends, bike & camping, movies, books,... All those are a part of my life that are equally or more important than the game.

3 days x 8 hours means that I would be out of my life during that period of time and I don't like that. I mean, congrats to you for doing that, I sometimes wish that I could do the same, but then again something will happen out of the game that would part me from the computer. There's always something.

Now to answer your questions:
1. Industry/ invention/ reverse engineering can compete with this, if you set it up properly. Depending on the initial investment, you could be making way more than level 4 missions. Incursions are the second solution. The good thing about industry is that it's not an ISK faucet, since you are basically buying materials and selling finished goods.

2. No. Missions are not the end goal and are not the most effective way of getting the ISK. Missions can help you get the investment ISK to start whatever you want to start (market manipulation, investments & trade, industry, research,...), not the other way around.

3. No, there should not be any ISK sinks or nerfs because it would destroy the casual gamer like me and the majority of players that actually have jobs. What can be done is the more effective fight against bots. Bots removed sanctums from 0.0 space and caused the first way of players to leave the game in disappointment. Sanctums haven't generated significantly more ISK than level 4 missions and the amount of players in 0.0 space is way lower than in highsec. Additionally, there could be only 2 Sanctums per solar system at a time - that's like having 2 mission runners is a system, you can see that sanctums were not the problem. The problem were alliances that were holding whole regions of space and used a lot of bots that were farming sanctums 24/7.

And if you think hat only "evil 0.0 blob alliances" were using bots to farm sanctums, you are very very wrong. Hundreds of them were active just 5-6 jumps from Jita and judging by my watchlist, some of them still continue to function despite the reports and the evidence presented to CCP both in petitions and by using the report bot option in the game. I haven't been in that infected area for a while, but there are probably new ones active at this moment to replace the banned ones.

Conclusion: Not many players can pimp their ship to generate 50 mil per hour and a lot less can even spend 8 hours a day playing the game. Level 4 missions or any other direct ISK generating activity should not be nerfed because if they are, this game will lose the whole community of casual gamers which would be replaced by bots that have already ruined this game significantly and forced the sanctum nerf which caused the first wave of unsubscriptions. If you can farm that much ISK, then congratulations. But you must understand that you are one of the lucky few that can.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#25 - 2011-10-28 00:48:13 UTC
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:
non judgement wrote:
So you're basically saying is that you don't want people who play for 3 x 8 hours and make isk?
Or, are you saying that you don't want missioning to be the main thing that gives you isk?
You think the other things you can do in game should make the same amount?

It sort of sounds like you just don't like making isk?
Or maybe you think that since you spent all the time getting your skills to elite that you shouldn't get a reward like making heaps of isk in missions?

If something else made more isk than missioning or incursions you'd be commenting about that too? Asking why that thing makes so much isk?


What are you some kind of crazy mind reader? I have not said a thing about any of that. Thanks for the first post deviod of any content.

Thanks to everyone else.

PS your avatar has the post punchable face ive seen in this game

In your post you say
Quote:
3. Do you think that there should be an isk sink in this game to remove the masses of currency that exist.

So you're either saying you made too much during the time you were doing missions or you have nothing to waste your isk on. If you wanted something that made isk faster you would still have the problem of what do I spend isk on. What are you actually asking, if you aren't asking why do missions make too much isk? "everything is a sideshow to lvl 4 missions when making isk".
why not just ask "what makes isk faster than missions and isn't boring or too much effort?"

PS maybe try punching the monitor when you see my avatar? Does punching someone (something) help at all? or does it just display your inability to respond to things in a mature way?
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-10-28 00:58:30 UTC
non judgement wrote:
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:
non judgement wrote:
So you're basically saying is that you don't want people who play for 3 x 8 hours and make isk?
Or, are you saying that you don't want missioning to be the main thing that gives you isk?
You think the other things you can do in game should make the same amount?

It sort of sounds like you just don't like making isk?
Or maybe you think that since you spent all the time getting your skills to elite that you shouldn't get a reward like making heaps of isk in missions?

If something else made more isk than missioning or incursions you'd be commenting about that too? Asking why that thing makes so much isk?


What are you some kind of crazy mind reader? I have not said a thing about any of that. Thanks for the first post deviod of any content.

Thanks to everyone else.

PS your avatar has the post punchable face ive seen in this game

In your post you say
Quote:
3. Do you think that there should be an isk sink in this game to remove the masses of currency that exist.

So you're either saying you made too much during the time you were doing missions or you have nothing to waste your isk on. If you wanted something that made isk faster you would still have the problem of what do I spend isk on. What are you actually asking, if you aren't asking why do missions make too much isk? "everything is a sideshow to lvl 4 missions when making isk".
why not just ask "what makes isk faster than missions and isn't boring or too much effort?"

PS maybe try punching the monitor when you see my avatar? Does punching someone (something) help at all? or does it just display your inability to respond to things in a mature way?



Listen dude im sure that in real life you are a good guy but you have to stop trying to read peoples minds over the internet. again i did not say any of those things. A couple of other people picked it up pretty quickly and did not try to read my mind they just read my words

Standing in for Karn Dulake who was banned for saying bad words
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#27 - 2011-10-28 01:18:35 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:
non judgement wrote:
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:
non judgement wrote:
So you're basically saying is that you don't want people who play for 3 x 8 hours and make isk?
Or, are you saying that you don't want missioning to be the main thing that gives you isk?
You think the other things you can do in game should make the same amount?

It sort of sounds like you just don't like making isk?
Or maybe you think that since you spent all the time getting your skills to elite that you shouldn't get a reward like making heaps of isk in missions?

If something else made more isk than missioning or incursions you'd be commenting about that too? Asking why that thing makes so much isk?


What are you some kind of crazy mind reader? I have not said a thing about any of that. Thanks for the first post deviod of any content.

Thanks to everyone else.

PS your avatar has the post punchable face ive seen in this game

In your post you say
Quote:
3. Do you think that there should be an isk sink in this game to remove the masses of currency that exist.

So you're either saying you made too much during the time you were doing missions or you have nothing to waste your isk on. If you wanted something that made isk faster you would still have the problem of what do I spend isk on. What are you actually asking, if you aren't asking why do missions make too much isk? "everything is a sideshow to lvl 4 missions when making isk".
why not just ask "what makes isk faster than missions and isn't boring or too much effort?"

PS maybe try punching the monitor when you see my avatar? Does punching someone (something) help at all? or does it just display your inability to respond to things in a mature way?



Listen dude im sure that in real life you are a good guy but you have to stop trying to read peoples minds over the internet. again i did not say any of those things. A couple of other people picked it up pretty quickly and did not try to read my mind they just read my words


if someone doesn't understand what you're trying to ask you don't have to say things like that. You could have just corrected them and say what the question was really about.
if you're going to bring up what someone might be like in real life maybe try not to talk about punching faces before hand?
Tommas De'Wins
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-10-28 02:46:31 UTC
Do incursions .... 9/10 mill every 8/9 mins in a decent fleet ........
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2011-10-28 02:51:12 UTC
In the end if what makes you tick in EVE is isk/hr conversion then thats what you gonna look for.

Many of us do. Its unfortunate that such good potential is dumbed to isk/hr ratio.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2011-10-28 02:51:55 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
CCP are trying to fix this issue

funny thing tho; the Goon fun with the Ice an all that, an all the other high sec gankers right now, but noone's making any effort to stop the dreaded missioners

Suddenly ninjas has been at it for years. You're welcome.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#31 - 2011-10-28 19:49:31 UTC
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Not another L4 whine. The horse was beaten to death, cloned, then beaten to death again and it is most certainly as dead as it could be.

Incursions earn more ISK, Trading in highsec earns also more ISK.



Not an L4 whine. Read the post before you polute this thread with you idiotic thoughts


I would like to point you to the fact that you dragged the thing back into the forum, which has been discussed to death and was also answered by a lot of players, including me. You may go into nerdrage now.Lol

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Yummy Tears
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-10-28 19:54:36 UTC
So, you played for 24 hours, made 1.2b isk, or roughly 50m/hour. Have you already converted all your LP and spent the time selling the items? If not, then you're adding more hours onto that, and your 50m/hour is dipping even more.

Yeah, I'm pretty dead positive there are a number of highsec activities that are not level 4 missions where I can beat that number.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2011-10-28 20:01:13 UTC
i just started doing nullsec exploration. im making significantly more isk, and never going back to carebearing.
Dervinus
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#34 - 2011-10-28 20:01:36 UTC
Like many other people above have said, do. Incursions. 100mil/hour. Profit. No need for a shiny faction BS. Make more money in much less time, and go pvp to your heart's desire.

o7 toonies
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#35 - 2011-10-28 20:15:47 UTC
i make a bil a day in faction warfare. sooo your a slideshow to me

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#36 - 2011-10-28 20:21:56 UTC
Kelsi Corynn wrote:
Incursions.

Far better and more fun than missions, only downside is you have to wait to be accepted in the fleet (unless you join an Incursion corp)

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#37 - 2011-10-28 20:23:20 UTC
I think they should nerf level 4 missions

I mean you get money, bounties and LP from them which really adds up.

I say make them more dynamic so that death is possible or remove bounties or isk reward.

Or move level 4's to low sec Twisted

CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool
Callic Veratar
#38 - 2011-10-28 20:31:02 UTC
Here's a new goal: take all that money you're earning and focus on driving a single resource out of a constellation (or set of constellations). Buy every last instance of the item, and trash it. Don't reprocess it or flip it, become a sentient isk sink.
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-10-28 20:31:58 UTC
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:
(This is not a call to ban level 4 missions in highsec. i love and adore them and dont want them moved)


i fly a gank fit faction battleship with all the toys (no officer stuff though gankers). Im maxed out in that i cannot do anymore dps. my elite core skills are there and my lights and meds are also maxed out. I played for 3 days 8 hours a day as i had a lot of down time and an extended weekend and made 1.2 billion isk missioning (includes bounties, rewards and LP conversions).

questions

1. How can anything else compete with this.

...stuff...




You should keep in mind that using a faction BS with faction mods is not a normal way to do lv4.

The normal way to do lv4s is the average Raven/Abaddon/whatever with T2 stuff. And suddenly the income doesn't seem all out of proportions.

By the time you have invested 1.5b or more in a single hull+mods, you should already have grown past them, or you should have enough money that you don't need to grind anymore to live. Faction stuff is for the min-maxers who like to optimise their time as much as they can, and in no way mandatory.
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#40 - 2011-10-28 20:38:32 UTC
Level 4's must die.

Level 5's FTW; they are what every every mission level should be modeled after; difficult as hell without help.

The pie is a tautology