These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

How many SP does your suicide ganker pilot have?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#61 - 2013-02-25 23:44:54 UTC
Fawn Tailor wrote:

I have a nasty feeling that you're going to continue on your "fact finding mission" right up until the votes close so that you can have some kind of plausible deniability later on in the game, just like a RL politician would.

Hopefully, I'm wrong.


He might actually learn something. Maybe he'll take us up on the invite to do some whale hunting.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Fawn Tailor
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-02-26 00:01:37 UTC
Agent Trask wrote:
Fawn Tailor wrote:

I have a nasty feeling that you're going to continue on your "fact finding mission" right up until the votes close so that you can have some kind of plausible deniability later on in the game, just like a RL politician would.

Hopefully, I'm wrong.


He might actually learn something. Maybe he'll take us up on the invite to do some whale hunting.

Nah, too many votes in the Orca owners between 1 and 4 years old demographic.

Highsec Mining Permits - Ask me How! Salvaging Permits also available! www.minerbumping.com
Ripard Teg
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#63 - 2013-02-26 08:09:50 UTC
Fawn Tailor wrote:
I have a nasty feeling that you're going to continue on your "fact finding mission" right up until the votes close so that you can have some kind of plausible deniability later on in the game, just like a RL politician would.

Hopefully, I'm wrong.

I'm never going to be the "ganking candidate" and I'm not trying to be. But it's a part of the game that I don't have a lot of direct experience at and I'm trying to learn from those that do. That's not gonna change whether I get elected or not.

And I was OK at it, actually. I learned quite a bit just from the first few ganks. I went exclusively after Hulks and Macks, using arty Hurricanes as my platform of choice, pre-scanning to go after ones with dead-space shield reppers. I had about a 60% success rate against them, which I felt was pretty good. I came out with a small profit after I collected the reppers and assorted T2 mining lasers from the stuff I killed, plus the pre-scan platform was also my salvage platform...

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Fawn Tailor
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-02-26 10:26:56 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
I'm never going to be the "ganking candidate" and I'm not trying to be. But it's a part of the game that I don't have a lot of direct experience at and I'm trying to learn from those that do. That's not gonna change whether I get elected or not.

And I was OK at it, actually. I learned quite a bit just from the first few ganks. I went exclusively after Hulks and Macks, using arty Hurricanes as my platform of choice, pre-scanning to go after ones with dead-space shield reppers. I had about a 60% success rate against them, which I felt was pretty good. I came out with a small profit after I collected the reppers and assorted T2 mining lasers from the stuff I killed, plus the pre-scan platform was also my salvage platform...

I appreciate that you're putting in some effort here and in the interests of saving you some time I'd be more than happy to arrange for you to speak with someone who has had years of experience at this. A quick 15 minute chat over TeamSpeak and you would know more about this area of the game and it's history than 99% of the Eve player base.

An interview like that might even make a good story for your blog. As you can see from some of the responses we get to our activities, there are a good proportion of Highsec residents who cannot believe that their ships are able to be blown up if they leave them unattended for long periods of time and that they don't have some kind of inherent right to absoloute safety, no matter what their actions. Not only that, many actually think that ganking relies on some sort of broken game mechanic or exploit.

You clearly have the ear of some of these people, you could be a great candidate for the education of players in the realities of the game in this respect. Many of them probably aren't even aware of how good they have it right now compared to 18 months ago.

You've already stated that you don't want to see Eve become a theme park MMO. In the interests of that aim, it would be good to hear you state your position on further buffs to highsec, particularly in respect to all kinds of AFKing, somewhat more categorically and unequivocally than you have to date.

If you were ganking 18 months ago with a 60% success rate, my guess is that you would currently be running at about 30-40% if you tried the same thing now (that's just a guesstimate based on conversations I've had with more experienced players regarding the changes CCP have instituted since that time), if you were running in our fleets with that kind of success rate we'd probably have to shoot you for a spai Blink

Highsec Mining Permits - Ask me How! Salvaging Permits also available! www.minerbumping.com
Ripard Teg
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#65 - 2013-02-28 08:02:09 UTC
Fawn Tailor wrote:
I appreciate that you're putting in some effort here and in the interests of saving you some time I'd be more than happy to arrange for you to speak with someone who has had years of experience at this. A quick 15 minute chat over TeamSpeak and you would know more about this area of the game and it's history than 99% of the Eve player base.
I'd be very happy to do this. Please EVE mail me a time (or have this someone do so) and I'd be very happy to chat. My weekday playtime starts at about 0200, but I'm fully available throughout the weekend.

Fawn Tailor wrote:
An interview like that might even make a good story for your blog. As you can see from some of the responses we get to our activities, there are a good proportion of Highsec residents who cannot believe that their ships are able to be blown up if they leave them unattended for long periods of time and that they don't have some kind of inherent right to absoloute safety, no matter what their actions. Not only that, many actually think that ganking relies on some sort of broken game mechanic or exploit.
That's fine, and if the person involved agreed, I'd love to do that. But I really do want to learn what's happening with this play style. That's my primary goal here.

Fawn Tailor wrote:
If you were ganking 18 months ago with a 60% success rate, my guess is that you would currently be running at about 30-40% if you tried the same thing now (that's just a guesstimate based on conversations I've had with more experienced players regarding the changes CCP have instituted since that time), if you were running in our fleets with that kind of success rate we'd probably have to shoot you for a spai Blink
After the nerfing my beloved Canes got, I think I'd be lucky to get a 20% success rate, but if I were doing it today, I'd probably use a Brutix.

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Miningfor Tears
Doomheim
#66 - 2013-02-28 16:52:20 UTC
For people that use their mains, how do you deal with the kill rights against you if you mainly locate yourself in high sec? I'd love to reduce my mains sec status but the 30 days open target bugs me. Mainly as my main is my do it all character, pvp, pve, miner, hauler etc etc.

Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-02-28 17:51:18 UTC
Miningfor Tears wrote:
For people that use their mains, how do you deal with the kill rights against you if you mainly locate yourself in high sec? I'd love to reduce my mains sec status but the 30 days open target bugs me. Mainly as my main is my do it all character, pvp, pve, miner, hauler etc etc.



Have a buddy kill your noobship.

Proud member of the New Order of HighSec
Miningfor Tears
Doomheim
#68 - 2013-02-28 19:26:38 UTC
My problem is the kill rights are not public, the person who has the kr moves about a fair bit and is obviously an alt so can move the kr to a private person or alliance. It is just the unknowing of when the strike will come, or if it comes. That random frig which burnt to you maybe scanning your hold and ship for worth for when to attack or bring a warp in as out of nowhere suspect timer appears. I just assume people will make use of their kill rights as much as I'd do my best to make use of any KR's I had.

I guess it is the price you pay for ruining their ship, I just want to make sure they are always the worst off.
Hannah Flex
#69 - 2013-02-28 20:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannah Flex
.
Ripard Teg
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#70 - 2013-03-01 06:18:00 UTC
Hannah Flex wrote:
Rex Aparte wrote:
In my opinion, I'm surprised you think ganking isn't pvp. Not to say it is "leet" pvp, but pvp nonetheless. It is just profitable pvp, what it is used for is irrelevant.


Real and elite pvp is 20 Tornados with skirmish links. Rote Kapelle knows Smile

Heh, yeah that was a thing in Rote for about six weeks. Fun as hell, but understandably people stopped fighting those fleets. I haven't undocked in an arty Tornado in months.

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-03-01 07:56:12 UTC
Ripard Teg supports the isk-tanking idea. Why would you go & give him more ammo for his argument?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Fionn macCumhail
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#72 - 2013-03-09 02:34:17 UTC
My Gank alt is 11m SP.

Ganking industrials in highsec used to be my primary income, funding my pvp activities in nullsec as well as plexing all of my accounts.

Since the new changes I found it just too annoying. There were already a lot of negatives before the changes; from unsuccessful ganks, competition, loot grabbers, regaining sec status and of course the time consuming nature of waiting for a good target to appear.

Overall i've moved onto more isk effecient activities. My main motivation for suicide ganking was income, not entertainment.
Eve Terrorist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2013-03-09 03:27:09 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:
Rex Aparte wrote:
In my opinion, I'm surprised you think ganking isn't pvp. Not to say it is "leet" pvp, but pvp nonetheless. It is just profitable pvp, what it is used for is irrelevant.


This is mostly just semantics, but for me the "vs" in "Player vs Player" implies the possibility of the target fighting back, which I see as absent from suicide ganking. In my experience, usually every step is taken to ensure that the target will not be able to offer any resistance; ship scans to make sure their tank is beatable, targeting ships which cannot shoot back such as freighters and, yes, targeting players who are unlikely to be at their keyboard to respond like AFK miners or autopiloting haulers.


Player versus player does not mean fair and balanced, or that the other party has a good chance at fighting back, it means what it says on the tin: One player doing something that has an effect on another player. Simple.

Trying to play dumb semantic games to claim it isn't PVP is something I consider a bit dishonest. Ripard knows that if he flat out said he's against certain types of PVP he'd be a laughing stock, so instead he tried to claim it wasn't PVP (and was instead more like **** or slavery) to try and make it seem like his disagreeing with it was more valid, and to try and paint it as something which everyone should inherently be against.


It's much like my bio says:

'What is called terrorism,' Brian Jenkins has written, 'thus seems to depend on one's point of view. Use of the term implies a moral judgment; and if one party can successfully attach the label terrorist to its opponent, then it has indirectly persuaded others to adopt its moral viewpoint.' Hence the decision to call someone or label some organization terrorist becomes almost unavoidably subjective, depending largely on whether one sympathizes with or opposes the person/group/cause concerned. If one identifies with the victim of the violence, for example, then the act is terrorism. If, however, one identifies with the perpetrator, the violent act is regarded in a more sympathetic, if not positive (or, at the worst, an ambivalent) light; and it is not terrorism.
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#74 - 2013-03-12 00:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: TurAmarth ElRandir
Rex Aparte wrote:
In my opinion, I'm surprised you think ganking isn't pvp. Not to say it is "leet" pvp, but pvp nonetheless. It is just profitable pvp, what it is used for is irrelevant.


Sry, I personally don't suicide gank or otherwise gank... don't see it as honorable or sportsmanlike on a personal level.

I will say this... Ganking, IE to 'Gang Suicide Kill' or to bring overwhelming DPS against an unarmed mining or industrial ship, with or without drones of any type as a gang attacking man who has a small wind up robot with a 1" knife is not a "fight" in anybody's book (and you see I am not saying the 'F' word... you know... 'fair') when he is up against 3, 4 or 6 guys armed with .45 caliber handguns... Nope, it just aint PvP now matter how you look at it. It's just a gank... same as a drive by... it's a damn near guaranteed win for the gankers and a damn near guaranteed loss for their target... as guaranteed as you can get in EVE at least.

It's exactly the same as 3 or 5 of you walking up behind a guy, tapping his shoulder, all of you then shoot him in the face as he turns, now the Police run up and !smack the guns out of your hands!... then they wander off whistling... then you all go and pick up another full brace of free guns while doing the Rocky Balboa dance like you actually DID something worth doing or even worthy of notice... but, you didn't... you never ever have. Not once.

So, should you be stopped? Should Hisec be safe? NO! and again Fuk NO!

But... we could train our noobies all about the ebil gankers so they would find all their juicy targets... all nicely tanked and or escorted... The problem isn't 'safety''or 'Gankers' it's new players who have not been properly prepared for the realities of our virtuality.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#75 - 2013-03-12 01:38:06 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Player versus player does not mean fair and balanced, or that the other party has a good chance at fighting back, it means what it says on the tin: One player doing something that has an effect on another player. Simple.

Trying to play dumb semantic games to claim it isn't PVP is something I consider a bit dishonest. Ripard knows that if he flat out said he's against certain types of PVP he'd be a laughing stock, so instead he tried to claim it wasn't PVP (and was instead more like **** or slavery) to try and make it seem like his disagreeing with it was more valid, and to try and paint it as something which everyone should inherently be against.



ver·sus
[vur-suhs, -suhz] preposition
1. against (used especially to indicate an action brought by one party against another in a court of law, or to denote competing teams or players in a sports contest): Smith versus Jones; Army versus Navy.

ver·sus [ˈvɚsəs, ˈvɚsəz] preposition
1 — used to indicate the two people, teams, etc., that are fighting or competing against each other or that are opposed to each other in a legal case ▪ It's Smith versus Jones in the title fight. ▪ In 1948, the U.S. presidential election was Dewey versus Truman. ▪ I sometimes feel like it's me versus [=against] the rest of the world. ▪ the State versus John Smith — abbr. vs., v.


Huh... strange that a quick sample of just two definitions [Merriam-Webster & Dictionary.com] BOTH state, right there on the tin, Two or more parties/players/teams COMPETING against each other... Not "One party/player/uh... (sry there is no singular for 'team') COMPETING against a memberless party/unmanned ship/not fielded team..."

So assploding an unmanned ship is... well, a little YOU vs nada... but not, Player v Player which is what it says on the tin actually, PLAYER against PLAYER... both active, involved and in the game.... ganking is more... what? sorta masturbatory typing and mousing? at best...

So how about all the one's that are manned? Read the definitions again... Drive by's aren't a gang 'fight' anymore than a gank is PvP...

But what it "IS" however is a classic military tactic in long use ever since... well as far back as my reading goes... but it's not called a fight or a battle, it's called an "Ambush"... and the point of an ambush is that your opponent doesn't have a chance if you do it right.

ambush - verb
ambush·es; ambushed; ambush·ing
[+ obj] : to attack (someone or something) by surprise from a hidden place
▪ We have reports of enemy soldiers ambushing civilians on this road. — often used as (be) ambushed ▪ He was ambushed and killed by robbers on his way home.

But it still aint PvP.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#76 - 2013-03-12 02:03:32 UTC
Fawn Tailor wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
but overall just found that I liked targets that shoot back. Blink

Oooh Ripard, that's a rookie move, we all know that's code for, "...but overall I just wasn't very good at it." Smile

Hopefully, I'm wrong.


You know, if YOU knew anything about the person you have been verbally jousting against, you would have at some point looked at his KB and that would have never allowed you to make such a bald faced idiotic statement... Ripard Teg, the failed ganker... Oh yea, he can PvP, BC KB reports 2.214 kills to 85 losses, Rote KB says 1682 kills to 22 losses... so, uh, yea, no way he can shoot a ship that aint moving or piloted, only good against active ships that fight back... lord save us from the likes of... sigh

(1) thought you were maybe worth listening to right up to the... "..wasn't very good at it." then you lost me and became just another idiot with a Jame315 implanted anti-Jester ax to grind cause you got no mind of yer own.

Oh and...

(2) Don't worry, you really really are. In soooooo many ways.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#77 - 2013-03-12 02:54:25 UTC
TurAmarth ElRandir wrote:

But... we could train our noobies all about the ebil gankers so they would find all their juicy targets... all nicely tanked and or escorted... The problem isn't 'safety''or 'Gankers' it's new players who have not been properly prepared for the realities of our virtuality.


We should operate Code-sanctioned lowsec mining operations sometime.

Can I propose people bring their mining barges to Rancer? I hear that system is criminally under-mined.

Plus you get the benefit of learning to D-scan.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-03-12 05:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Trask
TurAmarth ElRandir wrote:

But... we could train our noobies all about the ebil gankers so they would find all their juicy targets... all nicely tanked and or escorted... The problem isn't 'safety''or 'Gankers' it's new players who have not been properly prepared for the realities of our virtuality.


The best way to train noobies about ganking is to teach them how to gank.

Which is something we do. If you can fly a destroyer after completing your advanced combat career agent quests, seek us out. Doesn't matter what faction ... fit blasters on a Catalyst or Cormorant, autocannons on a Thrasher, and pulse lasers on a Coercer.

We will get you baptized in short order.


Gank a noobie once, and he'll just burn for a day. Teach him how to gank and he will throw himself into the fires of CONCORD his whole life.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#79 - 2013-03-12 05:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Trask
derp, double post.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#80 - 2013-03-12 06:14:41 UTC
Agent Trask wrote:



Gank a noobie once, and he'll just burn for a day. Teach him how to gank and he will throw himself into the fires of CONCORD his whole life.


That should be in someone's sig.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com