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Have Capsuleers forgotten their heritage?
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Siigari Kitawa
Operation Sleepless
#1 - 2013-02-28 07:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Siigari Kitawa
Just found out about the new skill Armor Honeycombing (been busy with real life) and did some checking it out. When I first saw it I drooled. 25% reduction in plate mass? Hell yeah! That's awesome! Then I did a forum search of Armor Honeycombing to find the patch notes of where it was released and instead I found about a dozen whine threads or "by the numbers" of how it is useless and what not.

I want to start out by saying this:

wtf.

Eve isn't about time, it's about ADVANTAGES. Once you've played Eve for years you'll understand what I mean. You train skills to get advantages. Now I'm just going to use the Armor Honeycombing skill here as an example, but I hope it serves as a good vessel for my thoughts.

The skill itself is a module support skill. That means it affects a certain type of module. Said module can be fitted on any ship. Now to seriously say "but is training it to 5 worth it?" makes me immediately think you're a scrub and because I train it to 5 and you train it to 4 I will do the following better than you when we both have plates fitted:

1) Align faster than you
2) Turn faster than you
3) Accelerate faster than you
4) Have a higher top speed than you
5) Be all-around more nimble than you

Why would you give up a 5% times the number of plates fitted bonus? WHY? This makes no sense to me. I haven't seen a support skill this great in ... a really long time.

At any rate, ever since we dropped learning skills it seems to me people have forgotten that Eve is about advantages. Everyone got their free pass on not having to dump time into their skillsheet and now it seems that they all expect everything on a silver platter. If it's not 5 it's not finished. Once you train something to 5 the only way to do it better is with rigs. The only way to do rigs better is to train them to 5. The only way to improve upon rigs is implants. The only way to use better implants is to train Cybernetics to 5.

I hope you guys see what I'm talking about. If I'm just rambling, sorry for rambling. Just wanted to rattle that off my chest.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-02-28 08:12:56 UTC
But then you have to compare if 5% more whatever is worth lacking 20% extra in two other things you gave up because you could have trained two other skills 1-4.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#3 - 2013-02-28 08:18:08 UTC
While in general I agree with you I think that true advantage comes from setting up correct priorities in your training plan. In many cases it is more beneficial to train bunch of skills to lvl 4 to gain more overall boni to corresponding "system" than just take one particular skill to lvl 5.

Gunnery group comes to mind as a good example.

Common consensus is you need t2 guns and I happen to agree with it. But once you have specialization lvl1 trained taking it up to lvl 5 while neglecting all other support skills that can be trained to level 3 or even 4 in the same time that would take you to train just that one final level of specialization is not very good move from my point of view. With t1 guns but with high supports I will have more firepower than you and it will be applied better than paperdps from ETF.

Armor Honeycombing is quick to train and I will train it to 5 just because I honestly have not so much other things to train for what I am doing right now. But as a newbie a year ago I would stop at 4 and move to other, more contributing skills.

Invalid signature format
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-28 08:21:52 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
But then you have to compare if 5% more whatever is worth lacking 20% extra in two other things you gave up because you could have trained two other skills 1-4.


If those are of greater benefit, then by all means, train those two first. That doesn't make honeycombing bad, it just makes it lower priority.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-02-28 08:31:39 UTC
Oh yeah, agreed. Honeycombing is most definitely a thing.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#6 - 2013-02-28 08:36:59 UTC
I knew there was something I forgot to train...
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2013-02-28 09:11:51 UTC
The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough.
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-28 09:44:53 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough.


Armor capitals are disagreeing with you.

Armor ships that fit cov ops cloaks (and their friendly black ops pilots) are disagreeing with you.

Gallente brawler ships are disagreeing with you.

I...I can't think of anything else.

Hello, hello again.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-02-28 09:48:44 UTC
Yes, how quickly they forget.

Ain't that right Grandpa Bill ?

*DeMichael Crimson ques Grandpa Bill to take the stage*

*A stage tech gives DeMichael Crimson an official notice from the Empire Board Of Health*

Well, it seems Grandpa Bill is now resting comfortably in the Twin Lakes Retirement Home due to a wee bit of arthritis acting up. I'm sure he regrets not being here to share his wisdom 'bout the good ole days'. Hopefully he'll be back soon to once again share his vast knowledge with us.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-02-28 09:55:58 UTC
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
... Then I did a forum search ... I found about a dozen whine threads ...


And this thread is a result of the monkey see monkey do effect?

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Whitehound
#11 - 2013-02-28 11:16:49 UTC
Honey combing is serious.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-02-28 14:55:11 UTC
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Eve isn't about time, it's about ADVANTAGES.


I think this is why people get so upset about "blob" warfare. You've spent years training skills, learning the game, pimp fitting your ride... you think you have some newb right where you want him... then... Oh, it was just bait for a blob.


I don't care how many 5% advantages you add, having a couple friends jump into the fight will out trump.

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#13 - 2013-02-28 15:28:26 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Eve isn't about time, it's about ADVANTAGES.


I think this is why people get so upset about "blob" warfare. You've spent years training skills, learning the game, pimp fitting your ride... you think you have some newb right where you want him... then... Oh, it was just bait for a blob.


I don't care how many 5% advantages you add, having a couple friends jump into the fight will out trump.




Yes, because in the "Real world" narcissism fails.

Stroking the ego/ePeen/LOOKHOWCOOLMYSHIPSKILLSAWESOMENESSSAUCEISKWALLETISCUZI"MPLAYINGAVIDEOGAMEIS will always lose to... "Dude, help me shoot this idiot? Kthx!"

And that is how it should be.

Where I am.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#14 - 2013-02-28 16:04:37 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
But then you have to compare if 5% more whatever is worth lacking 20% extra in two other things you gave up because you could have trained two other skills 1-4.


If you're not a scrub you have already trained the "other 2 things" to 5 anyway, so your point is not valid.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#15 - 2013-02-28 16:06:11 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough.
Then de-prioritize it in your queue, if it's not important to what you're flying. No one requires you to train it...

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-02-28 16:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: S'Way
Siigari Kitawa wrote:

At any rate, ever since we dropped learning skills it seems to me people have forgotten that Eve is about advantages. Everyone got their free pass on not having to dump time into their skillsheet and now it seems that they all expect everything on a silver platter.

I 'd say you can't blame capsuleers for changing their way of thinking and forgetting the past, the game has altered so much over the years.
Back in the day EvE was a cold, harsh place where you learnt by mistakes / trial and error. These days there's a safety net at every turn. From the safety button to the pop up warnings, to the way every ship in each class must be balanced equally etc.

The playerbase has just changed to reflect that - the increasing numbers playing must mean it's a popular way of taking the game. Whether it's true to what the original vision of EvE was....well that's another debate.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2013-02-28 16:33:32 UTC
Going 1m/s faster and aligning 0.1 seconds faster will almost certainly win you every fight

Honeycombing is OP

.
Adam Junior
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-02-28 18:23:24 UTC
Degren wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough.


Armor capitals are disagreeing with you.

Armor ships that fit cov ops cloaks (and their friendly black ops pilots) are disagreeing with you.

Gallente brawler ships are disagreeing with you.

I...I can't think of anything else.


You plate caps?
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-02-28 18:25:12 UTC
Adam Junior wrote:
Degren wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough.


Armor capitals are disagreeing with you.

Armor ships that fit cov ops cloaks (and their friendly black ops pilots) are disagreeing with you.

Gallente brawler ships are disagreeing with you.

I...I can't think of anything else.


You plate caps?


Oh dear.

Dodixie > Hek
The Renner
Canadian Operations
#20 - 2013-02-28 20:06:27 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Adam Junior wrote:
Degren wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough.


Armor capitals are disagreeing with you.

Armor ships that fit cov ops cloaks (and their friendly black ops pilots) are disagreeing with you.

Gallente brawler ships are disagreeing with you.

I...I can't think of anything else.


You plate caps?


Oh dear.


With armor honeycombing you would have to be crazy not to!
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