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Wardec v.s. Bot Miner Corp

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EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#61 - 2013-02-27 23:34:41 UTC
let's just ignore the whole part about where a player gets to run other players out of business and the only recourse that player has involves them being thrown out of highsec

instead let's talk about how a three year player isn't a veteran, or how those veteran players can somehow become immune from wardecs and combat, or how it's all about good players shooting noobs
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#62 - 2013-02-27 23:37:34 UTC
you could just explain what any of that meant in the first place.

forums.  serious business.
Whitehound
#63 - 2013-02-27 23:42:51 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
let's just ignore the whole part about where a player gets to run other players out of business and the only recourse that player has involves them being thrown out of highsec

What exactly happened?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-02-27 23:49:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
EI Digin wrote:
let's just ignore the whole part about where a player gets to run other players out of business and the only recourse that player has involves them being thrown out of highsec

instead let's talk about how a three year player isn't a veteran, or how those veteran players can somehow become immune from wardecs and combat, or how it's all about good players shooting noobs

Or we could not pretend every wardec is noobs trying to force veterans out of business (or about economic competition at all) and look at the mechanics as a whole. We could also look at the fact that recovering sec status is (tediously) possible. Or that they could create or buy dedicated alts and not be concerned with the sec status of that character like many already do.
Lin Suizei
#65 - 2013-02-28 00:06:21 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Or we could not pretend every wardec is noobs trying to force veterans out of business (or about economic competition at all) and look at the mechanics as a whole. We could also look at the fact that recovering sec status is (tediously) possible. Or that they could create or buy dedicated alts and not be concerned with the sec status of that character like many already do.


You cannot seriously think that the current system is okay, and highsec PvP should be based on suicide ganking, especially after the repeated nerfs which the fine art of suicide ganking has suffered.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-02-28 00:16:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Lin Suizei wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Or we could not pretend every wardec is noobs trying to force veterans out of business (or about economic competition at all) and look at the mechanics as a whole. We could also look at the fact that recovering sec status is (tediously) possible. Or that they could create or buy dedicated alts and not be concerned with the sec status of that character like many already do.


You cannot seriously think that the current system is okay, and highsec PvP should be based on suicide ganking, especially after the repeated nerfs which the fine art of suicide ganking has suffered.

I don't think things are in a good state, and I don't know how to fix it. But at the same time I don't believe locking people into combat situations for indefinite periods is going to be good for the game or the subscription base in the long run. some may be of the opinion that those lost are those the game should lose and will gain back others more "in tune with the true spirit of the game" but I'm not so optimistic. I'd also like to believe the sandbox does have some room for casuals, and locking people into wardecs sems a largely anticasual move.

In the meantime suicide ganking is a legit and workable mechanic. The threshold for profitability has been raised several times admittedly, but all that really means is that there is a disconnect between the level of triviality people believe there should be in doing so and possibly things that weren't initially considered in the meta game.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-02-28 00:27:26 UTC
ultimately, seeking to fight people who don't wish to fight is the 'mechanic' that is to blame. perhaps your other hobby is herding cats, i don't know. but there's any number of people up for a ruck in this game and it's not terribly hard to find them. you might not find them on your terms but that;s what you're wishing on others so HTFU etc.

forums.  serious business.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#68 - 2013-02-28 00:31:22 UTC
Suicide ganking is basically a gigantic artificial hoop that players have to jump through in order to get any sort of reaction out of someone who you don't like, for legitimate reasons or not. It's a huge undertaking if you want to start suicide ganking someone, especially if you are a player who doesn't want to live in lowsec or nullsec, a poor player, or a new player.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#69 - 2013-02-28 00:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
EI Digin wrote:
Suicide ganking is basically a gigantic artificial hoop that players have to jump through in order to get any sort of reaction out of someone who you don't like, for legitimate reasons or not. It's a huge undertaking if you want to start suicide ganking someone, especially if you are a player who doesn't want to live in lowsec or nullsec, a poor player, or a new player.


ah, the I care about noobs (I want to gank) post.

glass cannons is all you get, meight. get better at sums.

forums.  serious business.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-02-28 01:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
EI Digin wrote:
Suicide ganking is basically a gigantic artificial hoop that players have to jump through in order to get any sort of reaction out of someone who you don't like, for legitimate reasons or not. It's a huge undertaking if you want to start suicide ganking someone, especially if you are a player who doesn't want to live in lowsec or nullsec, a poor player, or a new player.

Prior to it's most recent nerf(s) subsidizing gankers to promote OTEC profitability was a thing. That said people were doing it quite often without those subsidies prior. Even now it doesn't seem to be limited to only rare and isolated incidents.

Perfectly balanced? Not sure, but there are things I would change. Unworkable and/or terribly intensive? On the scale of activities here, evidence would suggest no unless you were doing something on a large scale.
Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#71 - 2013-02-28 05:04:26 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
, or you could hire people, who would suicide gank their own grandmothers for isk, to go on the rampage for a week or so, on your behalf.



^ always down :)

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-02-28 07:10:10 UTC
Rex Aparte wrote:
Thinks the point of wardecs are for mining or indy or noob corps - check

Whines when said corp uses game mechanics to get out of a wardec they don't want to be in - check

Even calls it an exploit and wants game changed so corps that don't want to be at war get "trapped" for at least a week. - check

I find it so funny that people are a. proud of their "wardecs" and b. surprised when their foe doesn't want to fight, and cry about it all day long on the forums. As someone smarter than me said, go ahead and wardec the best hisec merc alliance. I guarantee you they won't try and get out of it. But then again, that won't give you the easymode free kills you're looking for. Then it would you docking up and dissolving your corp instantly. Cry. Moar.

If they are indeed botters, petition them, wardeccing them does nothing to help your cause.

This guy thinks wardecs have anything to do with anything other then one corp going to war with another.

You're not exempt because you're a miner.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-02-28 07:23:03 UTC
It should be harder til avoid a wardec, and it should be more expensive to start a war. Increase the consequence of both parties.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Whitehound
#74 - 2013-02-28 07:30:58 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Suicide ganking is basically a gigantic artificial hoop that players have to jump through in order to get any sort of reaction out of someone who you don't like, for legitimate reasons or not. It's a huge undertaking if you want to start suicide ganking someone, especially if you are a player who doesn't want to live in lowsec or nullsec, a poor player, or a new player.

You do get a reaction out of them when you declare war and they then surrender to you.

I am coming under the impression that it is something specific you want them to do, like you want them to fail at something, because you failed at it and you now hate them for it. Perhaps you want them to hate you back. If so then know that some players will always win the "hating game", because they just never hate another player and it is only a game to them, but they will only hate the game and themselves for failing at it. You just cannot get any reaction out of anyone just because you want them to.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-02-28 07:40:10 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
Suicide ganking is basically a gigantic artificial hoop that players have to jump through in order to get any sort of reaction out of someone who you don't like, for legitimate reasons or not. It's a huge undertaking if you want to start suicide ganking someone, especially if you are a player who doesn't want to live in lowsec or nullsec, a poor player, or a new player.

You do get a reaction out of them when you declare war and they then surrender to you.

I am coming under the impression that it is something specific you want them to do, like you want them to fail at something, because you failed at it and you now hate them for it. Perhaps you want them to hate you back. If so then know that some players will always win the "hating game", because they just never hate another player and it is only a game to them, but they will only hate the game and themselves for failing at it. You just cannot get any reaction out of anyone just because you want them to.

It's not surrender when you disband your corp due to a wardec. It's exploitation of the NPC corps.

If disbanding the corp to get out of war was the intended method of surrender, there wouldn't be an actual option to surrender and high sec wouldn't be the only place this happens on a regular basis.

This seems to be the point some of you are neglecting, and I would guess because most of you understand this and won't admit to it because your afraid CCP would actually do something about it.

Every person the leaves a player run corp should be losing something significant. If those miners actually lost something, like the ability to mine just as well as before, they wouldn't disband corps as often.

Whitehound
#76 - 2013-02-28 08:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Eterne
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
It's not surrender ... bla bla bla.

Yes, it is. You declare war - they disband. It is a reaction on your declaration and it is a surrender.

*snipped personal attack* - CCP Eterne

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-02-28 08:09:38 UTC
This question boils down to one that needs to be awnsered by the Devs.

Is this a game about competition and player interaction, or is this a single player game with a chat box tacked on?

The game I'm here to play is a cutthroat competitive game where extensive knowledge of the interaction of many systems is your primary weapon and if you're bad at it you lose space-monies.

The game that many other players (and some developers) seem to have come here to be involved in is space-themed grinding sim where if you're bad at it you just don't advance as quickly as your peers.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Whitehound
#78 - 2013-02-28 08:12:19 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Is this a game about competition and player interaction, or is this a single player game with a chat box tacked on?

Seems to me with all the crying over war-dec mechanics that it is an MMO, where some players want to live in high-sec and turn into into a single-player game by using war-decs and to drive others away and when it fails they try even harder by whining on it on the forums.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2013-02-28 08:15:08 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
It's not surrender ... bla bla bla.

Yes, it is. You declare war - they disband. It is a reaction on your declaration and it is a surrender.

You are quite an annoying whiner for a Goon. What is wrong with you?


Not exactly a surrender if all they do is immediately reform soon after quite often. Does not really make for a good argument at all regardless of what side of the fence you're on :/
Whitehound
#80 - 2013-02-28 08:30:12 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Not exactly a surrender if all they do is immediately reform soon after quite often. Does not really make for a good argument at all regardless of what side of the fence you're on :/

That is just you.

It is not different from surrendering to 5 wars simultaneously either. When you then do not like it then find someone else. Insisting to fight a specific target is just dumb and stupid, and riding on it for the sake of an argument can only have one goal - to harass specific players. When people do not want to fight then they do not want to fight. Get it into your head.

Should the game ever change and the targets then decide to fight you back and then suddenly kick your arse will you be again crying on the forum. This time then about how you cannot get out of war or how this is now all unfair. It is not them who cry about some mechanics, you know?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.