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Atom Graphics Processing - End of the Polygon?

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BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2013-02-28 01:21:46 UTC  |  Edited by: BEPOHNKA
Hello!

Just wondering if CCP would ever look in to this type of engine? From what it looks like you can scan down any hand made item and place it into your module system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4
Snezz Boscone
Solarmark
Stellarium Alliance
#2 - 2013-02-28 01:38:43 UTC
Voxel trickery. Unless you want a plain diffuse shader with no texture maps. That video has been making rounds for years
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-02-28 01:46:22 UTC
BEPOHNKA wrote:
Hello!

Just wondering if CCP would ever look in to this type of engine? From what it looks like you can scan down any hand made item and place it in to your make making module so much easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4



its fake...... You got trolled.
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#4 - 2013-02-28 01:50:30 UTC
Pie in the sky....
Zak Breen
Breen Enterprises
#5 - 2013-02-28 01:53:21 UTC
Looks very similar to voxels.

It is very cool tech but I don't see EVE benefiting from it.

Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of not knowing. http://www.di.fm/spacemusic
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#6 - 2013-02-28 03:15:14 UTC
I have removed some off topic posts. Please keep it on topic. Thank you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#7 - 2013-02-28 04:26:26 UTC
its a voxel engine. The guy just wants to sound cool so he called it differently. GPUs are designed to work with polygons, its unlikely that we will see a voxel engine in ANY game in the next 10 years.

the last game which used it was outcast, it ran entirely on the CPU

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-02-28 11:57:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Snezz Boscone wrote:
Voxel trickery. Unless you want a plain diffuse shader with no texture maps. That video has been making rounds for years
You don't really know how Voxels work or what they are.
Voxels don't need textures. You have no clue about this.

Johan Civire wrote:
its fake...... You got trolled.
No, it's real and enjoys governmental funding.
You have no clue either.

Bienator II wrote:
its a voxel engine. The guy just wants to sound cool so he called it differently. GPUs are designed to work with polygons, its unlikely that we will see a voxel engine in ANY game in the next 10 years.

the last game which used it was outcast, it ran entirely on the CPU
Well, that last sentence is the only one of all the crap you guys wrote that's actually true. Oh and you can find a lot of voxel engines that run on the GPU. GPUs can be used to calculate a lot of stuff, you know. (No, you don't.)
You don't seem to have any clue either.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-02-28 12:13:28 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Snezz Boscone wrote:
Voxel trickery. Unless you want a plain diffuse shader with no texture maps. That video has been making rounds for years
You don't really know how Voxels work or what they are.
Voxels don't need textures. You have no clue about this.

Johan Civire wrote:
its fake...... You got trolled.
No, it's real and enjoys governmental funding.
You have no clue either.

Bienator II wrote:
its a voxel engine. The guy just wants to sound cool so he called it differently. GPUs are designed to work with polygons, its unlikely that we will see a voxel engine in ANY game in the next 10 years.

the last game which used it was outcast, it ran entirely on the CPU
Well, that last sentence is the only one of all the crap you guys wrote that's actually true. Oh and you can find a lot of voxel engines that run on the GPU. GPUs can be used to calculate a lot of stuff, you know. (No, you don't.)
You don't seem to have any clue either.


You're very good at telling people they have no clue, but not very good at supplying said clues. If you know something about it, why don't you explain it to us?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-02-28 12:18:33 UTC
BEPOHNKA wrote:
Hello!

Just wondering if CCP would ever look in to this type of engine? From what it looks like you can scan down any hand made item and place it in to your make making module so much easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4


This is pretty old and really not as impressing as they make it look... Criticism

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
ashley Eoner
#11 - 2013-02-28 16:07:45 UTC
dexington wrote:
BEPOHNKA wrote:
Hello!

Just wondering if CCP would ever look in to this type of engine? From what it looks like you can scan down any hand made item and place it in to your make making module so much easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4


This is pretty old and really not as impressing as they make it look... Criticism
I've talked with John Carmack and I would take his word over some random schmuck. Simply put Carmack is a freaking genius at programming game engines..
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#12 - 2013-02-28 16:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Solstice Project wrote:
Snezz Boscone wrote:
Voxel trickery. Unless you want a plain diffuse shader with no texture maps. That video has been making rounds for years
You don't really know how Voxels work or what they are.
Voxels don't need textures. You have no clue about this.

Johan Civire wrote:
its fake...... You got trolled.
No, it's real and enjoys governmental funding.
You have no clue either.

Bienator II wrote:
its a voxel engine. The guy just wants to sound cool so he called it differently. GPUs are designed to work with polygons, its unlikely that we will see a voxel engine in ANY game in the next 10 years.

the last game which used it was outcast, it ran entirely on the CPU
Well, that last sentence is the only one of all the crap you guys wrote that's actually true. Oh and you can find a lot of voxel engines that run on the GPU. GPUs can be used to calculate a lot of stuff, you know. (No, you don't.)
You don't seem to have any clue either.

sure you can do that. GPUs are programmable for general purpose tasks, but the architecture is designed to deal with the typical workflow of a rasterization pipeline. Voxel engines have huge memory requirements, no clean solution for animations and as soon you start to optimize it it looks like a graphics demo. Is it useless tech? of course not. Many engines use core concepts of the voxel idea. The crysis 1 terrain editor ofr example used voxels at design time and triangulated them to the final terrain. But the end result are polygons in every case. If you don't believe me, watch a talk of john carmack or other infamous engine devs - but please don't believe in graphics demos - its like watching a shopping TV channel.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-02-28 17:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You're very good at telling people they have no clue, but not very good at supplying said clues. If you know something about it, why don't you explain it to us?
Why ? All i just told you is EASILY findable via google !

Learn to find information yourself, then you people might not make yourself looking ridiculous
by posting things that aren't true at all. It's all out there !

What a voxel is ... wikipedia.
Which government funds them ... google.
How many games ACTUALLY used a voxel engine are used nowadays ... google, youtube.
There are lots of indy games using actual voxel engines.

If you *really* wanted to know, you'd search for it yourself !
You're just mad that i point out that others spread misinformation.
But either you just can't do it, or it doesn't matter !

Bienator II wrote:
But the end result are polygons in every case.

No, not *in every case*. Using CUDA/Ati Stream/OpenCL for computations
doesn't push polygons at all, but use the power of the GPU.
That's a great winner for a voxel engine.

You compare apples with bananas anyway. The marching cubes algorithm creates triangles
out of the map that's made in voxel, because the editor works that way.
It's not a voxel engine, it's a triangle engine.

Carmack is a genius, i agree. But he didn't invent any single one of the ideas he put into code.
raycasting, z-fail, sparse-voxel-octrees, megatexture and so on ... none actually invented by him.
He deserves praise, but some people give him too much.

And i don't know what you mean by "believing a demo".
The unlimited detail engine is *real*, or there's a huge conspiracy going on with said government (look it up yourself)
who wants to trick all the rest of the world by throwing money at people just to troll all of us.


Hell ... write a voxel-engine yourself ... the basics are easy. Then we can have a talk.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2013-02-28 17:47:52 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Why ? All i just told you is EASILY findable via google !
Because you made the claim, so it's not his job to prove it for you. If it's easily findable via google, it should be downright trivial for you who already know what to look for, so there's no excuse for your failure to do so.
Overseer Aliena
Lord of Wars
#15 - 2013-02-28 17:52:53 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You're very good at telling people they have no clue, but not very good at supplying said clues. If you know something about it, why don't you explain it to us?
Why ? All i just told you is EASILY findable via google !

Learn to find information yourself, then you people might not make yourself looking ridiculous
by posting things that aren't true at all. It's all out there !

What a voxel is ... wikipedia.
Which government funds them ... google.
How many games ACTUALLY used a voxel engine are used nowadays ... google, youtube.
There are lots of indy games using actual voxel engines.

If you *really* wanted to know, you'd search for it yourself !
You're just mad that i point out that others spread misinformation.
But either you just can't do it, or it doesn't matter !




This is known as a cop out. You made the claim, it is your responsibility to back it up, not his. Personally if I were him, I would just say that I didn't see anything and therefore you are wrong, which means you would have to find it anyways to prove him wrong or just accept the statement as is.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#16 - 2013-02-28 19:56:43 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

Bienator II wrote:
But the end result are polygons in every case.

No, not *in every case*. Using CUDA/Ati Stream/OpenCL for computations
doesn't push polygons at all, but use the power of the GPU.
That's a great winner for a voxel engine.

You compare apples with bananas anyway. The marching cubes algorithm creates triangles
out of the map that's made in voxel, because the editor works that way.
It's not a voxel engine, it's a triangle engine.

dude, calm down and read what i wrote. I said concepts of voxel engines are used almost everywhere. I did not say that those are voxel engines.

Solstice Project wrote:

Hell ... write a voxel-engine yourself ... the basics are easy. Then we can have a talk.


OpenCL is my dayjob, i wrote a GPU voxel engine myself as student.

polygons are here to stay. Voxels are a nice toy to play with but there is no good reason to use them right now.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mark Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-02-28 21:26:07 UTC
Overseer Aliena wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You're very good at telling people they have no clue, but not very good at supplying said clues. If you know something about it, why don't you explain it to us?
Why ? All i just told you is EASILY findable via google !

Learn to find information yourself, then you people might not make yourself looking ridiculous
by posting things that aren't true at all. It's all out there !

What a voxel is ... wikipedia.
Which government funds them ... google.
How many games ACTUALLY used a voxel engine are used nowadays ... google, youtube.
There are lots of indy games using actual voxel engines.

If you *really* wanted to know, you'd search for it yourself !
You're just mad that i point out that others spread misinformation.
But either you just can't do it, or it doesn't matter !




This is known as a cop out. You made the claim, it is your responsibility to back it up, not his. Personally if I were him, I would just say that I didn't see anything and therefore you are wrong, which means you would have to find it anyways to prove him wrong or just accept the statement as is.


Well considering the original person that posted a "Fact?" didn't put a source or go through the effort to prove his "Fact" why should the guy that is saying he is wrong? Just because he spouted a "Fact" first doesn't place the burden of truth on the other guy. Either way if either of the two sides wanted to prove their point they would. The only people that should be searching for actual facts are those that don't know and have a genuine interest in the truth. I on the other hand don't care, I just like pretty pictures.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2013-02-28 21:33:31 UTC
Mark Munoz wrote:
Well considering the original person that posted a "Fact?" didn't put a source or go through the effort to prove his "Fact" why should the guy that is saying he is wrong?
Because he did the newbie mistake of saying “untrue, X is true instead” rather than ask for a source. Blink

The other guy having a poorly supported argument doesn't mean you can counter it with an equally poorly supported one — that just piles on the unsupported nonsense.
Mark Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-02-28 21:38:42 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mark Munoz wrote:
Well considering the original person that posted a "Fact?" didn't put a source or go through the effort to prove his "Fact" why should the guy that is saying he is wrong?
Because he did the newbie mistake of saying “untrue, X is true instead” rather than ask for a source. Blink

The other guy having a poorly supported argument doesn't mean you can counter it with an equally poorly supported one — that just piles on the unsupported nonsense.


Well clearly either side truly believes the other is wrong there is no reason to waste time. The only people who suffer is those that crave the knowledge and as the second poster wrote anyone craving that knowledge should be doing their own educated research on the subject rather than relying on people who argue on internet spaceship forums.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-02-28 21:44:13 UTC
I'll withhold judgement until they release a finished product, as that's the only logical thing to do... not shout out, "OH ITS JUST THIS THING" while really having no clue. Animations are going to be the key thing, because if I recall, that's where the issue lies in voxels.
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