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'Splain this please
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Mymuff Tutuff
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-02-28 00:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mymuff Tutuff
I'm a serious newb, so bear with me. I'm also no PvP'er [EDIT: means I'm no pro when it comes to PvP]. At this point in my career, I'm simply a flying joke.

So I was attempting to dock at a station in a seriously high security area in Gallente space, when all of a sudden my overview shows a criminal/pirate icon flashing (had skull and crosses). I was in an Amarr Coercer outfitted with 8 radio lasers. I opened fire on him and hit him with 5 or 6 volleys of all 8 lasers before he knew what hit him. At that point he turned around and returned fire, plus released a ton of drones. It then became apparent to me that this was some kind of heavy cruiser - can't remember the type. I just know that one hit stripped off my entire shields, and I just warped out of there as fast as I could before I could take another hit. Fortunately, I lived.

Here's the part that surprised me. I got 3 timers out of this. One timer was for "aggression against another pilot" which stopped me from using stargates, and I believe docking as well. The other two were limited engagement and something else. But my question is about the first timer.

I had safety on, so from my understanding I should not have been able to fire at another pilot unless he 'deserved' it so to speak. He was also flashing some kind of criminal or pirate icon, so apparently (afaik) he was 'fair game'. Also, I didn't have Concord or police breathing down my neck after this, so I assume I didn't act illegally, yet I still got this flag for 'aggression against another pilot.' Is this what should have happened? Can anyone explain? Why couldn't I use stargates or dock at a station (I'd understand if I acted improperly)?

Secondly, how was he able to fly around sentry guns and cops and everything else freely without any repercussions?

Note that I'm not complaining about anything, nor do I want anything changed, nerfed, etc. I'm just trying to understand the rules is all.

(Oh, forgot to mention, after the encounter I checked the guy and he had over 300 million bounty on his head. Not sure if that's considered a 'lot' to most folks, but it's a lot to me!)
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-02-28 00:30:33 UTC
he was flashy yellow? that means he's a suspect.

you shot at him so you get suspect flagged too so you get locked down in the system.

forums.  serious business.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#3 - 2013-02-28 00:32:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
The PvP flag (aggressed another pilot) you always get for shooting another pilot, irrelevant of why or who.
You also got a weapons flag because you fired a weapon.
CCP decided that if you fire on a suspect he gains the right to shoot you back. So he did. That's the "limited engagement" part. The idea is anyone under attack should get the right to defend themselves, even suspects. Be glad he did not get you with a warp disruptor, and grats on being aggressive and surviving.

Edit: There are two flags for bad guys: Suspect and criminal. Suspect (yellow) means CONCORD stays away and leaves the shooting to us by giving us all the right to shoot. Criminal means CONCORD is coming (at least in high sec).

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
The Initiative.
#4 - 2013-02-28 00:37:26 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
he was flashy yellow? that means he's a suspect.

you shot at him so you get suspect flagged too so you get locked down in the system.


That's not true. Shooting a suspect doesn't make you a suspect!

The flag you got were limited engegament, weapons flag and pvp flag.

Limited engagement allows the other person to shoot you without concord repurcussion while it's active.

PvP flag prevents you from disappearing when you log out so you can't just log off when you see you're loosing. You do emergency warp if you're not warp disrupted but you stay in space while it's active and can be probed down.

The pvp timer prevents you from docking and using stargets so you're comitted to the fight. You don't want people that are shooting you just dock up right before they're about to pop. Unless they haven't been shooting you for a while(deaggress)

Search the forums/dev blogs/internet for better explanations ont he terhms.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#5 - 2013-02-28 01:20:26 UTC
Hi there! It was me you aggressed.

You gained the following three timers:

1. Limited Engagement

As soon as you aggress a legal target, you gain a limited engagement timer. This can also be created by accepting a duel request. It essentially just gives you 5 mins to extend the engagement with the target and allows you to shoot freely without goign suspect or criminal yourself.

2. Weapons Timer

Any aggressive action you take will earn you a weapons timer of 1 minute. This timer will prevent you from docking, jumping (except WHs), ejecting, or switching ships. Performing logistics that would generate any timer for you will also earn a weapons timer (I.E. inheriting one for remote repairing someone else)

3. Log-off Timer

Any aggressive action done to you or by you will generate a 15 minute timer that will prevent you from logging off safely in space. If you have to log off in space, you always want to make sure this goes away first or you may find yourself dead. An exception might be logging off in a POS.

I hope you enjoyed the little encounter. I wouldn't have killed you due to your age, but I do like to send newbs scurrying when they aggress. The bounty you pointed out is because I have a tendency to **** people off.

Fly safe, and enjoy a nice little isk bonus!

Tah'ris

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#6 - 2013-02-28 01:21:08 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
edit: also, don't shoot him. Seriously, it's a bad idea.

So many people don't understand how this works. It's sad, really.

First, let me explain the timers:

- Limited engagement (blue): this timer is created between you and one other pilot, either by shooting a legal target or declaring a duel. It lasts for five minutes after the lass aggressive action between the two pilots. NOTE: if they shoot you, it resets your timer.

Providing reps or other logistical support to a pilot who has an LE will cause you to be flagged as a suspect.

- Recent aggression timer: If you engage in a hostile act against another player, you are prevented from docking in a station or using a jump gate for 60 seconds. Unlike the LE timer, only your actions count here.

- Combat logoff timer: This timer prevents your ship from disappearing if you log off. You get a 5 minute timer from NPC combat, and a 15 minute timer from PVP. This timer is refreshed by aggression from either side, meaning that your ship will not disappear so long as they continue to aggress you.

- Suspect timer (yellow): You set your safety to yellow and stole something from someone. Now you're yellow on the overview, got that nifty little icon, and anyone can shoot you, but you aren't free to shoot first. When they do, it will created a limited engagement timer between you. NOTE: Limited engagement timers can outlast the suspect timers that originated them.

Providing reps or other logistical support to a pilot who is a suspect will cause you to be flagged as a suspect.

- Criminal timer (red): Concord be coming for you. Anyone can shoot you. You turned off your safety, shot something, and you will be shot. NOTE: shooting a criminal still generates an LE, allowing them to return fire until concord shows up.

Providing reps or other logistical support to a criminal pilot would be really, really stupid.

Alright, there are five reasons you can shoot someone in high sec:

1) Their security status is below -5. This means they have committed quite a few criminal acts.

2) They have committed a criminal act and are about to be shot by concord.Whore that killmail!

3) You are at war with them.

4) They are a suspect.

5) You have entered into honorably combat via a duel, and gained an LE against them.

Every one of those will generate an LE. You won't see the LE timer when you're at war with your target, but it exists because neutral logi support will go suspect if they intervene.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#7 - 2013-02-28 01:23:37 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
you shot at him so you get suspect flagged too so you get locked down in the system.

*facepalm*

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Mymuff Tutuff
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-02-28 01:28:05 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Hi there! It was me you aggressed.


Hello good Sir! Thanks for your fine explanation, and thanks for the... uh... 'flying lesson' too, heh heh.

Quote:
I hope you enjoyed the little encounter.


I'm just a scrub, so it doesn't take much to give me a thrill. I guess I was basically a gnat buzzing around you, but it was fun regardless! I'm just glad to be alive!

Nice ship btw.

Quote:
I wouldn't have killed you due to your age...


Not sure I believe you here... but thanks.

Quote:
...but I do like to send newbs scurrying when they aggress.


And scurry I did!

Quote:
Fly safe, and enjoy a nice little isk bonus!


Don't think I got any isk, as I didn't kill you, but fly safe, and don't let the bedbugs, er, newb-bugs bite!

And thanks to all the other answers too - I understand it a little better, and it mostly makes sense.
Clara Stewart
Stewart Collections
#9 - 2013-02-28 01:31:01 UTC
Quite simply. YOU ARE A NOOBLET
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#10 - 2013-02-28 01:36:08 UTC
Mymuff Tutuff wrote:
Quote:
Fly safe, and enjoy a nice little isk bonus!


Don't think I got any isk, as I didn't kill you, but fly safe, and don't let the bedbugs, er, newb-bugs bite!


I sent you a small quantity of isk as a leg up once I saw your forum post. People who help themselves, deserve respect. Posting and seeking out the answer early on in your career shows you'll probably go far in EVE.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-02-28 01:37:38 UTC
Mymuff Tutuff wrote:
I'm a serious newb, so bear with me. I'm also no PvP'er. At this point in my career, I'm simply a flying joke.

So I was attempting to dock at a station in a seriously high security area in Gallente space, when all of a sudden my overview shows a criminal/pirate icon flashing (had skull and crosses). I was in an Amarr Coercer outfitted with 8 radio lasers. I opened fire on him and hit him with 5 or 6 volleys of all 8 lasers before he knew what hit him. At that point he turned around and returned fire, plus released a ton of drones. It then became apparent to me that this was some kind of heavy cruiser - can't remember the type. I just know that one hit stripped off my entire shields, and I just warped out of there as fast as I could before I could take another hit. Fortunately, I lived.

Here's the part that surprised me. I got 3 timers out of this. One timer was for "aggression against another pilot" which stopped me from using stargates, and I believe docking as well. The other two were limited engagement and something else. But my question is about the first timer.

I had safety on, so from my understanding I should not have been able to fire at another pilot unless he 'deserved' it so to speak. He was also flashing some kind of criminal or pirate icon, so apparently (afaik) he was 'fair game'. Also, I didn't have Concord or police breathing down my neck after this, so I assume I didn't act illegally, yet I still got this flag for 'aggression against another pilot.' Is this what should have happened? Can anyone explain? Why couldn't I use stargates or dock at a station (I'd understand if I acted improperly)?

Secondly, how was he able to fly around sentry guns and cops and everything else freely without any repercussions?

Note that I'm not complaining about anything, nor do I want anything changed, nerfed, etc. I'm just trying to understand the rules is all.

(Oh, forgot to mention, after the encounter I checked the guy and he had over 300 million bounty on his head. Not sure if that's considered a 'lot' to most folks, but it's a lot to me!)



No pvp? why do you even play mmorpg then? The are games call X3- Terran Conflict. Thats a pve game. I think thats a better choice to play. Eve is based on pvp you can do pve offcourse but whats the point of only farming money and then sitting in dock space.....

Its just me or people are that scared to lose a ship. Its only a ship. Its no real thing. Just go outside kick the ball and score. So like real thing go undock, go to low sec get pod killed and start over. Till you know how to defend and how to play agains other people. Thats more fun than only isk farming fest. Thats borring like hell. Just my opinion on your view offcourse.
Galenwade
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-02-28 01:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Galenwade
Johan Civire wrote:
Mymuff Tutuff wrote:
I'm a serious newb, so bear with me. I'm also no PvP'er. At this point in my career, I'm simply a flying joke.

So I was attempting to dock at a station in a seriously high security area in Gallente space, when all of a sudden my overview shows a criminal/pirate icon flashing (had skull and crosses). I was in an Amarr Coercer outfitted with 8 radio lasers. I opened fire on him and hit him with 5 or 6 volleys of all 8 lasers before he knew what hit him. At that point he turned around and returned fire, plus released a ton of drones. It then became apparent to me that this was some kind of heavy cruiser - can't remember the type. I just know that one hit stripped off my entire shields, and I just warped out of there as fast as I could before I could take another hit. Fortunately, I lived.

Here's the part that surprised me. I got 3 timers out of this. One timer was for "aggression against another pilot" which stopped me from using stargates, and I believe docking as well. The other two were limited engagement and something else. But my question is about the first timer.

I had safety on, so from my understanding I should not have been able to fire at another pilot unless he 'deserved' it so to speak. He was also flashing some kind of criminal or pirate icon, so apparently (afaik) he was 'fair game'. Also, I didn't have Concord or police breathing down my neck after this, so I assume I didn't act illegally, yet I still got this flag for 'aggression against another pilot.' Is this what should have happened? Can anyone explain? Why couldn't I use stargates or dock at a station (I'd understand if I acted improperly)?

Secondly, how was he able to fly around sentry guns and cops and everything else freely without any repercussions?

Note that I'm not complaining about anything, nor do I want anything changed, nerfed, etc. I'm just trying to understand the rules is all.

(Oh, forgot to mention, after the encounter I checked the guy and he had over 300 million bounty on his head. Not sure if that's considered a 'lot' to most folks, but it's a lot to me!)



No pvp? why do you even play mmorpg then? The are games call X3- Terran Conflict. Thats a pve game. I think thats a better choice to play. Eve is based on pvp you can do pve offcourse but whats the point of only farming money and then sitting in dock space.....

Its just me or people are that scared to lose a ship. Its only a ship. Its no real thing. Just go outside kick the ball and score. So like real thing go undock, go to low sec get pod killed and start over. Till you know how to defend and how to play agains other people. Thats more fun than only isk farming fest. Thats borring like hell. Just my opinion on your view offcourse.



Maybe Because he wants to play in the sandbox his/her way funny that ,oh and mmorpg stands for Massively multiplayer online role-playing game i dont see the term PVP in there . Maybe they want to pve with other people ? Maybe he is Roleplaying a carebear !!!



Oh and +1 to the OP for shooting , it was a bad idea but fun :)
Mymuff Tutuff
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-02-28 01:48:50 UTC
Quote:
Quite simply. YOU ARE A NOOBLET


Hey! I resemble that! And for future reference, I prefer the term 'noob-cakes' if you don't mind.

Quote:
I sent you a small quantity of isk as a leg up once I saw your forum post. People who help themselves, deserve respect. Posting and seeking out the answer early on in your career shows you'll probably go far in EVE.


Thank you good Sir. You are my hero.

Quote:
No pvp? why do you even play mmorpg then? The are games call X3- Terran Conflict. Thats a pve game. I think thats a better choice to play. Eve is based on pvp you can do pve offcourse but whats the point of only farming money and then sitting in dock space.....

Its just me or people are that scared to lose a ship. Its only a ship. Its no real thing. Just go outside kick the ball and score. So like real thing go undock, go to low sec get pod killed and start over. Till you know how to defend and how to play agains other people. Thats more fun than only isk farming fest. Thats borring like hell. Just my opinion on your view offcourse.


I didn't mean to imply that I didn't like PvP, or didn't want to try PvP when the time comes (in fact, I do, and I do). I simply meant to say that at this point in time I don't know jack. I'm a nooblet. I'm noob-cakes. I'm noob-escent.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#14 - 2013-02-28 02:30:03 UTC
Mymuff Tutuff wrote:
But my question is about the first timer.


That timer exists simply to prevent people from playing stupid station/gate games. It doesn't matter if it's a legitimate target or not, you shoot at another player, you have to wait a minute before you can dock/jump. Likewise if he shoots back he can't dock for a minute either.
Revman Zim
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2013-02-28 03:40:59 UTC
Ignore Johan Civire...

He is one of those idiots that think if you don't play the game their way, you aren't playing the game. A very Fascist way of thinking.

Anyways, good job on taking the initiative and trying something new. The best thing to come out of your experience is... well, Experience. You will be better informed and better prepared for any future engagements.

Most of us are not a55holes and understand that new players are the only thing that add content to the EVE universe. Not patches, not ship-balancing, not nullsec or hisec. NEW PLAYERS.

Welcome to EVE and good luck!
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#16 - 2013-02-28 04:33:44 UTC
Tah'ris is pretty dumb, you can kill him pretty easily if you get together with some other people that hate him. (There are a lot of them)
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-02-28 05:48:29 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Tah'ris is pretty dumb, you can kill him pretty easily if you get together with some other people that hate him. (There are a lot of them)

Hmmm, for some reason I'm reminded of a story about not throwing stones in a glass house.............



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Galenwade
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-02-28 06:35:39 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Tah'ris is pretty dumb, you can kill him pretty easily if you get together with some other people that hate him. (There are a lot of them)

Hmmm, for some reason I'm reminded of a story about not throwing stones in a glass house.............



DMC



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XzFXzabR68
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#19 - 2013-02-28 07:08:25 UTC
Clara Stewart wrote:
Quite simply. YOU ARE A NOOBLET


A nooblet that tried.

She's already leagues beyond most of the EvE playerbase!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Josef Djugashvilis
#20 - 2013-02-28 08:32:00 UTC
Best thread in GD for quite some time.

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