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Cloak Detection Probes

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Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-02-27 14:46:33 UTC
Lillith Sakata wrote:
I have an alt
He's in space
people look for him
and can't find him...
because he's cloaked.

They do whatever, and I light a candle.
buddies come, target dies in <8 seconds.
They give me more fuel in a can,
I cloak
I sit in system without anything you can do about it.

Rinse.
Repeat.




Let me correct this or you.


You have an alt
He's cloaked.

He is in High space -> People ignore him

He's in low sec Space -> People ignore him or travel to an other system

He's in WH Space -> People don't see him anywhers so ignore him

He's in NPC 0.0 -> People ignore him or travel to an other system

He's in Souvrain 0.0 -> now your story goes for a part though.

people in system can jump to the next -> I'he follows he isn't AFK.

People run plexes he still need to find those by probing, you can use D-scan to see that.

you can still keep doing what you do just stay aligned. if he tackles you, he can't lit his candle, i he lits his candle he can't tackle you.


So it seems to only be a problem in 0.0 souv space, and nerfing cloaking, will only lead to a safer 0.0 souv space all other places in space can work arround this problem.

0.0 and low sec candle lighters can just as well be afk in a station, high sec you don't need to be cloaked to sneak up on people, WH space doesn't show you in local.

0.0 Souv space has eliminated all other forms of ganking by closng down stations, big blue clouds that prevent anyother ship of becomming a threat, aside from a man in his cloaky vessle, that is or is not paying attention to your movements. and strangly people are going to use that last option to bug you.
Lillith Sakata
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2013-02-27 14:55:48 UTC
Here's the thing. I'm not the nullbear. I'm actually hunting the wierdos that think renting is fun, and happen to be supplying the enemies of my main (who is mostly a money grinder now)

I'm the guy sittign in the cloaked ship, being a pain in someone's ass. Sure they can operate... they can undock. but then they end up with a bunch of torps shoved down their throat. if its a bigger group... well that is easy. bomb em and torp the remains.

The point of this thread is that since I started flying cloakers, I've loved them. They are extremely useful tools int he game. but they are, as they stand, unbalanced. There is a counter to hellcats, rohks, titans, and frigates. But there is no counter to a cloaked ship. You can't chase me off, and by the time you see and lock me when I decide to be visible, there's already too many ships on grid for you to handle. And if you pop me, big deal I have 30-40 fully fitted replacements that are a dime a dozen -- and you're still dead from the mates that arrived.

It's a no-win situation for the other guy. I win regardless. I've only encountered ONE group that had a semi effective counter, and its ******** the length of time they spent to enact it, and the number of people it took, to counter one cloaker and it only worked once, the second day.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-02-27 15:10:43 UTC
Lillith Sakata wrote:
It's a no-win situation for the other guy. I win regardless. I've only encountered ONE group that had a semi effective counter, and its ******** the length of time they spent to enact it, and the number of people it took, to counter one cloaker and it only worked once, the second day.



Yes there is.

I'm not there to fight you, I'm there to run my plex and get out. at any given time I finish my plex, without you having been able to interfere I won. I go home with my fancy Faction mod if I'm lucky or a lot o cash, you where there to make it intresting, without you this run could have been done in anygame being the boring PVE run, but you made it a challenge.

And I´m winning that fight most of the time or else I wouldn´t do it.
Lillith Sakata
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2013-02-27 15:22:11 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
Lillith Sakata wrote:
I have an alt
He's in space
people look for him
and can't find him...
because he's cloaked.

They do whatever, and I light a candle.
buddies come, target dies in <8 seconds.
They give me more fuel in a can,
I cloak
I sit in system without anything you can do about it.

Rinse.
Repeat.


Let me correct this or you.

You have an alt
He's cloaked.

He is in High space -> People ignore him (1)
He's in low sec Space -> People ignore him or travel to an other system (2)
He's in WH Space -> People don't see him anywhers so ignore him (3)
He's in NPC 0.0 -> People ignore him or travel to an other system (4)
He's in Souvrain 0.0 -> now your story goes for a part though. (5)
people in system can jump to the next -> I'he follows he isn't AFK. (6)
People run plexes he still need to find those by probing, you can use D-scan to see that. (7)
you can still keep doing what you do just stay aligned. if he tackles you, he can't lit his candle, i he lits his candle he can't tackle you.
So it seems to only be a problem in 0.0 souv space, and nerfing cloaking, will only lead to a safer 0.0 souv space all other places in space can work arround this problem. (8)
0.0 and low sec candle lighters can just as well be afk in a station, high sec you don't need to be cloaked to sneak up on people, WH space doesn't show you in local. (9)
0.0 Souv space has eliminated all other forms of ganking by closng down stations, big blue clouds that prevent anyother ship of becomming a threat, aside from a man in his cloaky vessle, that is or is not paying attention to your movements. and strangly people are going to use that last option to bug you. (10)



  1. Because in highsec unless you are wardec'd, it doesn't matter anyways. moot point
  2. They might, but still can apply here.
  3. And while I haven't tried, if a cov cyno works there and can be pigged in, its still an issue. If this works, please let me know where you are so I can make the point.
  4. Still applies. If its an enemy ship, I can still drop it without recourse.
  5. Same as above.
  6. or maybe you just weren't worth chasing through to your blue gatecamp.
  7. You're assuming something: Did I scan it down already while you were in highsec mining?
  8. Incorrect. It leads to a balanced cloaking system that doesn't involve completely invulnerable ships.
  9. There aren't always stations. And I'm not talkign about utility candle lighters. High sec, it doesn't matter if you sneak up on someone. CONCORD. WH space sounds perfect, if I can drop a cyno beacon. Preferably covert. No local so you'd never know I was about to bend you over.
  10. Apparently you don't fly around nul much, or something. There is plenty of gank out there. Dunno wtf the big blue could is other than that red cloud that ends up on HED gates...


I'm not saying this wouldn't take adjustment. It would actually require people to pay attention just like everyone else. if you're cloaked, it shouldn't be a free pass. But as it stands, it is a free pass.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#45 - 2013-02-27 15:36:02 UTC
Lillith Sakata wrote:
Take your bitching about local to a thread and I'll happily argue the points about that issue there. This is about how once you are cloaked, you are un-f'n-touchable. Period, the end, needs fixing.
It's not about local, or this stupid 'psychological asshattery' that people are bitching about, its about this:

I have an alt
He's in space
people look for him
and can't find him...
because he's cloaked.

They do whatever, and I light a candle.
buddies come, target dies in <8 seconds.
They give me more fuel in a can,
I cloak
I sit in system without anything you can do about it.

Rinse.
Repeat.

Now... if there were cloak detection probes... guess what? The longer I sit in the system, the more people I'd have probing me down. I'd actually have to pay attention to that screen instead of typing this up. Eventually I'd have to do something like leave the area for a while...

So far the way I see it is that the people that whine about how this idea, or any that make cloakign more balanced, would ruin cloaking (or otherwise try and ***** about local to derail the thread) are lazy ***** that don't want to see a broken mechanic go away, so that they can just sit around and **** with enemy alliances' space without them being able to do a damned thing about it.


You haven't actually said anything about how it's "broken", mate. So what if they're "untouchable" when cloaked - they're 100% incapable of touching anyone else at the same time. So it's perfectly balanced. I also don't see you crying about how "untouchable" you are when you're docked or pos'd up in your system.

As for those of us who don't want your solution, rather than just scream and throw ad hominem at us why not address what we're saying? Your "solution" destroys wormhole space, it doesn't fix any problem and in fact makes another problem WORSE. You can't discuss the issue and it's solution in absolute isolation when it is related to other things bro, no matter how many tears you spurt
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#46 - 2013-02-27 15:38:14 UTC
I have removed some ranting, off-topic, and personal attacks from this thread.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#47 - 2013-02-28 00:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
invulnerability in eve is common phenomena.

docked, POS, warping, undocking without moving and cloaks.

why such hate against cloaks?

whether u like it or not, afk cloaking is centred around local. it is the reason afk cloaking exists and it is how afk cloakers interact with other inhabitants of that particular system. if there was no local there would be no afk cloaking. u simply cannot address one without the other.

im sorry if that hurts and makes u go crazy, but its the truth.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-02-28 08:03:37 UTC
Lillith Sakata wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:
[You have an alt
He's cloaked.

He is in High space -> People ignore him (1)---------------------------------
-------0.0 Souv space has eliminated all other forms of ganking by closng down stations, big blue clouds that prevent anyother ship of becomming a threat, aside from a man in his cloaky vessle, that is or is not paying attention to your movements. and strangly people are going to use that last option to bug you. (10)



  1. Because in highsec unless you are wardec'd, it doesn't matter anyways. moot point
    2. ----------------------------------------------------
  2. Apparently you don't fly around nul much, or something. There is plenty of gank out there. Dunno wtf the big blue could is other than that red cloud that ends up on HED gates...


I'm not saying this wouldn't take adjustment. It would actually require people to pay attention just like everyone else. if you're cloaked, it shouldn't be a free pass. But as it stands, it is a free pass.



You seem to be confused with the direction of this post and this thread as a whole. You're talking about hotdrops, not about cloaking. There are several threads o people complaing about hotdrops, you don't need to be cloaked to do a hot drop, it isn't even possible to light a cyno when cloaked.

The list you aswered with that it was possible or could be possible to hotdrop, was never ment to point out you could not hot drop or be afk cloaked, it was to show that it's effect is rather limited, and most of the time can be out preformed by any other means than the AFK cloaker.

secondly people are not as clustered arround there one upgraded to the max system, so they just move on to the next, or they are more than aware of the many possible Gankers out there that one more doesn't realy matter, and just keep a close watch at what they are doing.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#49 - 2013-02-28 09:17:43 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:


You seem to be confused with the direction of this post and this thread as a whole. You're talking about hotdrops, not about cloaking. There are several threads o people complaing about hotdrops, you don't need to be cloaked to do a hot drop, it isn't even possible to light a cyno when cloaked.



Because their problem is not hotdrop itself. Their problem is the "if any neutral is in the system dock and stay in safe" directive their null-bears directors give to them. Not blue in local -> stay docked, this is pretty much the only thing they learn about EVE and teach to their noobs.

It's an easy policy, requires no effort, no skills and the current joke sov mechanics allow them to hold sovreignity even with no daily effort or gameplay and systematically evading any risk or fight.
While on the countrary for instance in FW a group applying this kind of policy will loose his home system in 24 hours.

So the eventuality of someone able to be in "their" system (the system they pretend to own) undefinitively drive them crazy, it broke their policy and they fall in a deadlock loop unable to do anything.

And of course when an personal/alliance policy doesn't match a game mechanic is the game mechanic to be changed :)
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-02-28 09:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinigr Shadowsong
Terrible Idea OP. It will have way too large impact on PvP balance.

Many PvP Alliances rely on stealth bombers for fleet battles. Your "stealth breaking probes" would allow find combat spots of bomber-wings way too easily effectively making stealth bombers obsolete in fleet warfare.

Btw 0.0 Sov space is already so safe that it is safer than High-sec.

Carebears in 0.0 have for their deffence:

1. A lot of buffer "Blue" space just to came there.
2. Outposts and POSes that make them invulnerable for prolonged period of time.
3. Truckloads of Mobile Warp Disruption Generators on every entrance to system. It may take a lot of time to cross those bubbles and actually warp even if you know where to find your target.
4. Cloacked observers in adjustent systems so noone can enter their cozy carebear corner unnoticed.
5. Cynojammers to prevent any opportunities for hot-dropping.
6. Jump bridges to take them away from most blockades or bring them back in.
7. Plexes and Gravimetric sites that have to be scanned down by ganker. It gives you immunity to ships without probes and more than enough time to war away when you see probes on d-scan.
8. NPC that will sacrifice their digital lives for a noble deed of saving the one who is mass-murdering them.
9. Local chat that gives perfect intel.

Considering all those I'm surprised how some of those farmers allow gankers to kill them without awoxing.
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