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What is the community's opinion on permanent wardecs?

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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2013-02-27 01:58:05 UTC
I'm fishing to see which way the wind is blowing.

Eve-Uni endorsed CSM candidates believe that the war-dec system is broken, and that permanent war-decs, (U-Mad vs Ivy, specifically) are a form of harassment. As such, they want long-term decs to be nerfed.

I personally believe that nerfing war-decs would be bad for business. If a corp/alliance refuses to surrender, a war-dec should continue. I'm not sure about the details of the U-mad war, but uni propaganda would have us believe that U-Mad can't be reasoned with.

What is the community's opinion on the matter?

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#2 - 2013-02-27 02:09:41 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I'm fishing to see which way the wind is blowing.

Eve-Uni endorsed CSM candidates believe that the war-dec system is broken, and that permanent war-decs, (U-Mad vs Ivy, specifically) are a form of harassment. As such, they want long-term decs to be nerfed.

I personally believe that nerfing war-decs would be bad for business. If a corp/alliance refuses to surrender, a war-dec should continue. I'm not sure about the details of the U-mad war, but uni propaganda would have us believe that U-Mad can't be reasoned with.

What is the community's opinion on the matter?


If the aggressor is willing to keep paying, they should be allowed to dec you forever.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-02-27 03:12:40 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I'm fishing to see which way the wind is blowing.

Eve-Uni endorsed CSM candidates believe that the war-dec system is broken, and that permanent war-decs, (U-Mad vs Ivy, specifically) are a form of harassment. As such, they want long-term decs to be nerfed.

I personally believe that nerfing war-decs would be bad for business. If a corp/alliance refuses to surrender, a war-dec should continue. I'm not sure about the details of the U-mad war, but uni propaganda would have us believe that U-Mad can't be reasoned with.

What is the community's opinion on the matter?


If the aggressor is willing to keep paying, they should be allowed to dec you forever.


Pretty much this. If I am shelling out the money, sucks to be you.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#4 - 2013-02-27 03:18:25 UTC
Permanent war decs, like bounties, prevent me from undocking and playing the game. Therefore, I deem it a griefer mechanic and should be fixed!

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Marlon Darmazaf
e-L00T Ltd.
#5 - 2013-02-27 03:20:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Marlon Darmazaf
As is usually the case in political affairs, the community opinion will be divided depending on who stands to gain what.

So... um... yeah!
Skarned
Inroads
#6 - 2013-02-27 03:20:27 UTC
I don't get it. Why should that suddenly become considered harassment?

I'd rather see E-Uni adapt and deal with it.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-02-27 03:58:37 UTC
Skarned wrote:
I don't get it. Why should that suddenly become considered harassment?

I'd rather see E-Uni adapt and deal with it.


Tactically and strategically, E-Uni doesn't know how to deal with ganks. They only consider real war to be blob vs blob, or consensual war. We are **** at dealing with the guerrilla trade-hub ganker.

And... we complain that we can't catch kiting t3s and vagabonds.

The main problem is that our overall military organisation is ****. We might be able to field the deadliest roaming blobs ever, but we take a friggin 2 hours to mobilize 200 people. <- With 2 weeks notice.

In theory, our tactical pvp theories and doctrines are solid, but what we really need is fleet discipline and faster response times. We need mobilization drills and combat ship stockpiles.

Quote:
Permanent war decs, like bounties, prevent me from undocking and playing the game. Therefore, I deem it a griefer mechanic and should be fixed!


That's pretty much the attitude of most of the uni directors, most of whom live in high-sec.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-02-27 04:18:38 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Skarned wrote:
I don't get it. Why should that suddenly become considered harassment?

I'd rather see E-Uni adapt and deal with it.


Tactically and strategically, E-Uni doesn't know how to deal with ganks. They only consider real war to be blob vs blob, or consensual war. We are **** at dealing with the guerrilla trade-hub ganker.

And... we complain that we can't catch kiting t3s and vagabonds.

The main problem is that our overall military organisation is ****. We might be able to field the deadliest roaming blobs ever, but we take a friggin 2 hours to mobilize 200 people. <- With 2 weeks notice.

In theory, our tactical pvp theories and doctrines are solid, but what we really need is fleet discipline and faster response times. We need mobilization drills and combat ship stockpiles.

Quote:
Permanent war decs, like bounties, prevent me from undocking and playing the game. Therefore, I deem it a griefer mechanic and should be fixed!


That's pretty much the attitude of most of the uni directors, most of whom live in high-sec.


In the EVE University philosophy, "legitimate PvP" is only happening when EVE University outnumbers the enemy a solid 5-to-1. They fear having any type of actual "fair" fight, or engaging people that might outnumber them.

Back when we dec'd EVE university (I think it was late-2011), Kelduum sent us a letter promising that he would unleash "500-man T1 cruisers complete with more Blackbirds than Goons could dream of". He lived up to it--in part. He brought more Blackbirds than anything. When we went against them to their home system, every docked. They stayed docked. When EVE university's POS was attacked, they exploited out of the war willingly. According to Kelduum ,"The POS is not and should never be considered a legal target."

Kelduum won't commit if it's blob vs. blob. That gives the enemy a chance to come out on top. His belief is that war decs should be a gentlemen's agreement, and no one should be able to dec EVE University without his say-so (look at how he created the EVE University dec shield). I've told hundreds of EVE University players: you don't learn to PvP in EVE University, you learn to be a sheep. I don't know of any FC who wants sheep unable to think for themselves except the massive null sec alliances who are constantly whining about no fights.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Skarned
Inroads
#9 - 2013-02-27 04:41:20 UTC
The strategy of either blobbing or doing nothing at all really breaks down when you’re faced with an extended engagement. At this point, it sounds like you guys are prettymuch screwed no matter what you do, unless you can learn to fight back and win without overwhelming force. If you fight back and constantly fail, you become an awesomer target. If you try to stay docked up, you become an awesome hunt-and-kill target as your members get bored. If you spend hours getting a blob of 200 people together, your plan becomes obvious and you won’t get a fight.

Again, this sounds like an opportunity for E-Uni to adapt in a positive way.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-02-27 05:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
Anya Klibor wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Skarned wrote:
I don't get it. Why should that suddenly become considered harassment?

I'd rather see E-Uni adapt and deal with it.


Tactically and strategically, E-Uni doesn't know how to deal with ganks. They only consider real war to be blob vs blob, or consensual war. We are **** at dealing with the guerrilla trade-hub ganker.

And... we complain that we can't catch kiting t3s and vagabonds.

The main problem is that our overall military organisation is ****. We might be able to field the deadliest roaming blobs ever, but we take a friggin 2 hours to mobilize 200 people. <- With 2 weeks notice.

In theory, our tactical pvp theories and doctrines are solid, but what we really need is fleet discipline and faster response times. We need mobilization drills and combat ship stockpiles.

Quote:
Permanent war decs, like bounties, prevent me from undocking and playing the game. Therefore, I deem it a griefer mechanic and should be fixed!


That's pretty much the attitude of most of the uni directors, most of whom live in high-sec.


In the EVE University philosophy, "legitimate PvP" is only happening when EVE University outnumbers the enemy a solid 5-to-1. They fear having any type of actual "fair" fight, or engaging people that might outnumber them.

Back when we dec'd EVE university (I think it was late-2011), Kelduum sent us a letter promising that he would unleash "500-man T1 cruisers complete with more Blackbirds than Goons could dream of". He lived up to it--in part. He brought more Blackbirds than anything. When we went against them to their home system, every docked. They stayed docked. When EVE university's POS was attacked, they exploited out of the war willingly. According to Kelduum ,"The POS is not and should never be considered a legal target."

Kelduum won't commit if it's blob vs. blob. That gives the enemy a chance to come out on top. His belief is that war decs should be a gentlemen's agreement, and no one should be able to dec EVE University without his say-so (look at how he created the EVE University dec shield). I've told hundreds of EVE University players: you don't learn to PvP in EVE University, you learn to be a sheep. I don't know of any FC who wants sheep unable to think for themselves except the massive null sec alliances who are constantly whining about no fights.


To shed some positive light on eve-university in their defense:

I believe that it has a great community and environment for learning pvp. - Which mostly involves living in the low or null campus and doing things on your own.

We have our pvp community... they just tend to stay clear of the high-sec blobs.

In the recent RvB war, low-sec campus stayed away from blob warfare for most of the war, and focused on shutting down enemy reinforcements. Which meant lots n lots of ganking, the smarter way to fight. We didn't want to bring battleships into fleets where every noobie is broadcasting for armor.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-02-27 06:06:46 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Anya Klibor wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Skarned wrote:
I don't get it. Why should that suddenly become considered harassment?

I'd rather see E-Uni adapt and deal with it.


Tactically and strategically, E-Uni doesn't know how to deal with ganks. They only consider real war to be blob vs blob, or consensual war. We are **** at dealing with the guerrilla trade-hub ganker.

And... we complain that we can't catch kiting t3s and vagabonds.

The main problem is that our overall military organisation is ****. We might be able to field the deadliest roaming blobs ever, but we take a friggin 2 hours to mobilize 200 people. <- With 2 weeks notice.

In theory, our tactical pvp theories and doctrines are solid, but what we really need is fleet discipline and faster response times. We need mobilization drills and combat ship stockpiles.

Quote:
Permanent war decs, like bounties, prevent me from undocking and playing the game. Therefore, I deem it a griefer mechanic and should be fixed!


That's pretty much the attitude of most of the uni directors, most of whom live in high-sec.


In the EVE University philosophy, "legitimate PvP" is only happening when EVE University outnumbers the enemy a solid 5-to-1. They fear having any type of actual "fair" fight, or engaging people that might outnumber them.

Back when we dec'd EVE university (I think it was late-2011), Kelduum sent us a letter promising that he would unleash "500-man T1 cruisers complete with more Blackbirds than Goons could dream of". He lived up to it--in part. He brought more Blackbirds than anything. When we went against them to their home system, every docked. They stayed docked. When EVE university's POS was attacked, they exploited out of the war willingly. According to Kelduum ,"The POS is not and should never be considered a legal target."

Kelduum won't commit if it's blob vs. blob. That gives the enemy a chance to come out on top. His belief is that war decs should be a gentlemen's agreement, and no one should be able to dec EVE University without his say-so (look at how he created the EVE University dec shield). I've told hundreds of EVE University players: you don't learn to PvP in EVE University, you learn to be a sheep. I don't know of any FC who wants sheep unable to think for themselves except the massive null sec alliances who are constantly whining about no fights.


To shed some positive light on eve-university in their defense:

I believe that it has a great community and environment for learning pvp. - Which mostly involves living in the low or null campus and doing things on your own.

We have our pvp community... they just tend to stay clear of the high-sec blobs.

In the recent RvB war, low-sec campus stayed away from blob warfare for most of the war, and focused on shutting down enemy reinforcements. Which meant lots n lots of ganking, the smarter way to fight. We didn't want to bring battleships into fleets where every noobie is broadcasting for armor.


This about sums it up.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2013-02-27 06:25:17 UTC
Quote:

This about sums it up.


Naw, we have compulsory pvp classes with attendance enforced by an external organisation. It's a great learning experience.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#13 - 2013-02-27 06:29:59 UTC
War shall be continued indefinitely :)

2013.02.27 06:29:01 War Fee -500,000,000.00 ISK 20,051,219,000.64 ISK Fee for war against Ivy League.

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

U-MAD Membership Recruitment

PoH Corporation Recruitment
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#14 - 2013-02-27 06:35:05 UTC
If war-decs bother you so much then drop to an NPC corp

The mechanics are already in place in game to help you deal with permanent decs
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-02-27 06:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
Our WSOP requires us to treat you like school yard bullies, and we're not allowed to have any communications with U-Mad...

But out of interest,

Quote:
War shall be continued indefinitely :)


Why?

Quote:
If war-decs bother you so much then drop to an NPC corp

The mechanics are already in place in game to help you deal with permanent decs


And no, war-decs tickle me. I believe that the correct response to being ganked is, thank you, gf, and may I please have another?

I'm just interested in the politics of the nerf-wardecs debate.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#16 - 2013-02-27 06:42:33 UTC
The OP clearly failed our "Trolling 101" and "Alt Usage 101" classes.

Keep paying it Zeus. You need more ISK in that wallet? You only have enough for another 40 weeks...
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2013-02-27 06:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
The OP clearly failed our "Trolling 101" and "Alt Usage 101" classes.

Keep paying it Zeus. You need more ISK in that wallet? You only have enough for another 40 weeks...


It's 500M a week? I thought it's paid monthly... tats quite expensive, even for a corp.

No trolling intended. Just an academic exercise in surveying public opinion... please don't beat me!

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
dark heartt
#18 - 2013-02-27 07:10:58 UTC  |  Edited by: dark heartt
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
The OP clearly failed our "Trolling 101" and "Alt Usage 101" classes.

Keep paying it Zeus. You need more ISK in that wallet? You only have enough for another 40 weeks...


Why would you want him to post on an alt when posting on his main is the right thing to do?

As far as my little corner of Eve is concerned, a permanent wardec is fine. If they want to keep footing the bill, more power to them. It's not griefing, its using a legit game mechanic to your advantage.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
ShipToaster
#19 - 2013-02-27 07:18:29 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
The OP clearly failed our "Trolling 101" and "Alt Usage 101" classes.

Keep paying it Zeus. You need more ISK in that wallet? You only have enough for another 40 weeks...


Why not give him some of your 317 billion?

.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-02-27 07:31:07 UTC
ShipToaster wrote:
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
The OP clearly failed our "Trolling 101" and "Alt Usage 101" classes.

Keep paying it Zeus. You need more ISK in that wallet? You only have enough for another 40 weeks...


Why not give him some of your 317 billion?


Because he gave it all to CCP.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
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