Ships & Modules

Oh no! They balanced HM to be comparable to other medium sized long ranger weapons!

Whatever shall we do!!!

Seriously HM did almost as much damage as other medium short ranged weapons but also had some of the longest ranges in game. This is what made HM OP. Now they are comparable to the other medium long ranged weapons.....guess if you want damage in a drake you go fit HAM's now and actually have to engage in pvp rather then squat outside of combat range and blap HM from silly ranges now eh?!

• Train all support skills for missiles at lvl5 -this is MANDATORY, not an option anymore


• Eventually use specific missile implants -explo radius, speed, dmg, explo velocity


• Train Heavy missiles specialization at least at lvl4


• Fit your ship decently with at least T2 modules

Heavy missiles got a slight nerf that was much needed for reasons you seem to voluntarily ignore or haven't took the time to acknowledge.
Heavy missiles are now more in line with other medium weapon systems which is EXCELLENT for the greater good of the game, HAMS are now more viable than ever making them as good as every short range weapon.

And this is being told to you from someone having one character able to fly all T3 ships and one highly spec in Tengu.

Heavy missiles are fine, they're different now and require a little bit more of thinking and tactics but those are really fine now.

Please stop complaining.

At which range are you talking about? I can't get an Arty cane to do that kind of damage at 40km, let alone 100.

Closest I got, and this is a pre-nerf cane:
[Hurricane, Arty cane]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I


493 paper DPS. Considering the range though... At 40km you're halfway into falloff giving you 75% damage. Actual DPS assuming no tracking issues is ~370. At 60km, a range the drake hit pretty well you're at 50% falloff with PP and getting ~250 DPS.
Using Carbonized lead you get 62km optimal for full damage at that range (no tracking issues assumed), but only get 205 weapon DPS.

Now please, show me this magical arty fit that gets 500 DPS at 60km+. Also, didn't pre-nerf drake get closer to 80km range with HM's? And the 400-500 damage as well at that range.

Confirming Heavy Missiles have Javelin varients.
Also confirming that Javelins do increased damage to small targets.

i think useless is a bit of a strong word

"no longer overpowered" is what I'd call it and missiles are still my go-to weapon system for pve

I see people talking about railguns here in terms of comparable dps at 70-100km,

Can i see any of those fittings that also has a tank like a post nerf drake getting dps at 70km?
Or any gallente rail fitting that can get 500 dps at 70km? or at 50?

All numbers before implants or boosters, All skill V numbers
I can get a 250 rail brutix to hit 536 @ 23+25 with Navy AM and 44kehp, but i cant maintain 500+ past that,
I can get a HM drake to 475 @ 72.3 with CN Kin (or 344 with CN Nova)
Isnt that comparable to all other
any comments?

guns also cant get to 60km range without sacrificing a lot, missiles are still good, just not completely overpowered.

Something many people here seem to be forgetting is that HM are LONG RANGE WEAPONS. Yes, I said it. Long range. And they do that full damage to any target that happens to be in their range. They don't ever need to swap for lower damage ammo just to be able to hit farther. And, lastly, they used to be so good that you were an idiot to fit HAM's instead of heavies.

So let us go ahead and look at a few ships. We'll take the cane, harbinger, drake, and brutix for our example ships.

Drake with 6 HM's does 334 dps with no drones, 3 BCU's, and T1 scourge heavies, with a max range of 62km
Drake with 6 HAM's does 464dps with no drones, 3 BCU's, t1 scourge HAM's, and has a max range of 20km

Cane with 6 720's does 417dps with no drones, 3 gyro 2's, 1 TE, and EMP, with a range of 17+28, or 278dps with a range of 35+28 with titanium sabot, or 174 with proton M at 55+28. So to match the range of the HM drake, it has to fit titanium sabot (which btw, does approx 50% of that 278dps at 60km), or use proton. Yes, it can do more dps than the drake - but to do so it has 1/3 the range in optimal, and dps matches at a staggering 31km... or about half the range of the drakes. As far as shooting little ships, unless the frigate pilot is an idiot, the cane won't snipe it on the way in, because it can keep its transversal up. And once it gets under about 20km, the drake can hit it better than the cane can anyways.

Ok, how about the brutix? When fit with 6 250mm railgun 2's, 3 magstabs, and 1 TE 2, the brutix manages an astounding 446dps at 21+20km. That is a whole 30dps more than the cane. To match the drake's damage, it has to swap to thorium (335 at 36+20). I would like to note here, that to do the same dps as the drake, it has only half the range of the drake. So what does it take to match the drake's range? The most effective damage at 60km is going to be tungsten, which manages a wonderful 223dps. Which is at least better than the cane's, and means that it can apply approximately 2/3 the dps of the drake at the same range as the drake. So we can conclusively state that the brutix is better than the cane when looking only at plain damage with long range weapons, but the drake is still better outside of about 35km.

Lastly, for the harbinger. With heavy beam laser 2's, 3 heatsinks, and 1 TE, it does the best of the gunships with 470dps at 17+13. Dropping to drake DPS is standard, at 314dps with a range of 35+13. And finishing things out, it does 196 at 55+13 with radio loaded.

Did we notice something here? Every single time, the drake starts beating the other ships in dps between 30 and 35km. And really, if you are flying a ship with long range guns, you really shouldn't be engaging closer than 30km - if you are, you would be better served with shortrange weapons. I am also not going into the tank that these ships can fit while fitting longrange guns - after all, that is so far in favor of the drake that it isn't even funny. And the drake's tank is still excessive compared to these other ships with longrange fits.

Maybe you should get out of the mindset that the drake is too underpowered and should only be buffed. And if you want to engage at close range, fit HAM's, just like all the turret ships have to fit closerange weapons when engaging inside point range.

-Arazel

you kidding me??? I know of several wh corps in c6's that used tengu's as mandatory, they needed that nerf.

I guess that's why they're one of the most used pvp weapons systems.



Target Painters, webs, rigors, flares, implants. There are plenty of ways to reduce the explosion radius/increase velocity. You could also, you know, stop trying to hit web drones with Furies and use Precision or T1 missiles instead.



A precision heavy with 3x rigor will hit 57m explosion radius, your usual T1 frigate has a sig radius of around 50 before MWD, meaning you should apply most damage to the stationary target even without the painter. What's hurting you is explosion velocity - you'd gain far more out of a web. Still, you'll apply steady, if lower, damage regardless of distance, whereas another ship, say, an Omen, will depend on angular velocity to apply damage at all. If the frigate pilot is good, he can effectively reduce the Omen's laser dps to under your constant missile dps at all distances, except a window between 15 and 30 km, using Scorch, where the Omen's damage spikes up to about 30% higher (side note: that's assuming you didn't replace the TP with a web and one rigor with a flare, which would give you more or less equal spike under 10 km). Meanwhile, you've been steadily hitting him 50 km out. Will you do as much damage to them as Rapid Light Missile launchers would? Of course not - if that was the case, then what would be the point of having RLMs in the first place?

Long story short, heavy missiles are fine. They're still a very good weapon system for those ships that lack a missile velocity bonus, where HAMs would be very, very short range and where you expect to hit ships of cruiser size and larger, but still desire some anti-frigate capability.