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What do you need to run multiple clients?

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Fonac
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-02-26 17:40:19 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Fonac wrote:





1) from personal experience, I disagree

2) All are possible answers, it only became apparent when he was complaining about not being able to play\getting low fps in specific games I was having no issue with (while both having the same settings because my first assumption was his settings were all uber).

3) Cooked components don't sound like a good thing to me. I'd also agree with you that cooling didn't matter if there weren't over the top solutions like water cooling\freon cooling systems out there, although that's more to do with overclocking.

4) If this is the case how come some manufacturers (Fujitsu Siemens for example have always made poor machines in my eyes) machines sport a tech spec but it falls short when compared to other built machines with the same?

It's like you're ignoring the fact that the motherboard actually matters when it comes to the machine build
http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=734&sel_lang=english

5) and from going on that chart (from a 2 second look) I found a ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe for £143 and a ASUS Maximus V Extreme for £267. With the P8Z77-I Deluxe out performing the ASUS Maximus V Extreme in gaming. So that kinda kills the whole "more expensive is better argument". I'm also aware it's only be 5fps.

Each to their own though,



1. http://www.legitreviews.com/article/601/4/ from 161,52 fps to 168,99 fps with tight timings. a massive 4% difference!


2. I dont want to comment on that, you might be right.. i agree.

3. There is a difference between cooked components and normal temperaturs. If you can find a review that show you gain a performance boost, id' love to read it.

4. I would be bold and call it your personal preferences. You buy a machine with specific specs, they will uphold them.
Now, fujitsu can specify you have a 7200/rpm Harddrive.... but there is a big difference on performance on these.
Usually a computer shipped by a brand, comes with a low-range graphiccard... but if you buy the very same graphic card in the store.. it will perform exactly as good as the one you have in your machine already. a graphic card called gts 520, will be a gts 520 no matter where you buy it.
Reason being, the chip is made by nvidia, not the manufacture who has produced the card.

5. Yes there is a difference on motherboards, i myself got a p8z77-v lx2, which is a cheap as they come. Perhaps i should have mentioned motherboards are not really under this rule.
Also there is a reason a motherboard has the "extreme" name in it.... features :)
Ohishi
Apocalypse Reign
#42 - 2013-02-26 19:32:02 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Owena Owoked wrote:

Reading that again brought up a point that I haven't thought about in years. When is CCP going to let drone boats deploy more than 5 drones again? This is something that should seriously be on the table now that the server architecture is so much more powerful. Keep the bandwidth the same, just allow them to have more active drones.

You can deploy more than five right now, with the proper modules. And you can be assigned more beyond that.
No, you can't, and no, you can't.

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought.

ashley Eoner
#43 - 2013-02-26 19:40:37 UTC
Fonac wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Fonac wrote:





1) from personal experience, I disagree

2) All are possible answers, it only became apparent when he was complaining about not being able to play\getting low fps in specific games I was having no issue with (while both having the same settings because my first assumption was his settings were all uber).

3) Cooked components don't sound like a good thing to me. I'd also agree with you that cooling didn't matter if there weren't over the top solutions like water cooling\freon cooling systems out there, although that's more to do with overclocking.

4) If this is the case how come some manufacturers (Fujitsu Siemens for example have always made poor machines in my eyes) machines sport a tech spec but it falls short when compared to other built machines with the same?

It's like you're ignoring the fact that the motherboard actually matters when it comes to the machine build
http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=734&sel_lang=english

5) and from going on that chart (from a 2 second look) I found a ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe for £143 and a ASUS Maximus V Extreme for £267. With the P8Z77-I Deluxe out performing the ASUS Maximus V Extreme in gaming. So that kinda kills the whole "more expensive is better argument". I'm also aware it's only be 5fps.

Each to their own though,



1. http://www.legitreviews.com/article/601/4/ from 161,52 fps to 168,99 fps with tight timings. a massive 4% difference!


2. I dont want to comment on that, you might be right.. i agree.

3. There is a difference between cooked components and normal temperaturs. If you can find a review that show you gain a performance boost, id' love to read it.

4. I would be bold and call it your personal preferences. You buy a machine with specific specs, they will uphold them.
Now, fujitsu can specify you have a 7200/rpm Harddrive.... but there is a big difference on performance on these.
Usually a computer shipped by a brand, comes with a low-range graphiccard... but if you buy the very same graphic card in the store.. it will perform exactly as good as the one you have in your machine already. a graphic card called gts 520, will be a gts 520 no matter where you buy it.
Reason being, the chip is made by nvidia, not the manufacture who has produced the card.

5. Yes there is a difference on motherboards, i myself got a p8z77-v lx2, which is a cheap as they come. Perhaps i should have mentioned motherboards are not really under this rule.
Also there is a reason a motherboard has the "extreme" name in it.... features :)






4. Not always. The GT 520 is a sort of rarity where all the cards use the same dram type and bus width. For most graphics cards there's some variations in the Dram and the bus width which can make a big difference in performance. There can even be a performance difference just because the manufacturer deviates from the reference design to save money or boost performance.

"Extreme" is usually a marketing gimmick..
Fonac
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2013-02-26 20:54:34 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Fonac wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Fonac wrote:





1) from personal experience, I disagree

2) All are possible answers, it only became apparent when he was complaining about not being able to play\getting low fps in specific games I was having no issue with (while both having the same settings because my first assumption was his settings were all uber).

3) Cooked components don't sound like a good thing to me. I'd also agree with you that cooling didn't matter if there weren't over the top solutions like water cooling\freon cooling systems out there, although that's more to do with overclocking.

4) If this is the case how come some manufacturers (Fujitsu Siemens for example have always made poor machines in my eyes) machines sport a tech spec but it falls short when compared to other built machines with the same?

It's like you're ignoring the fact that the motherboard actually matters when it comes to the machine build
http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=734&sel_lang=english

5) and from going on that chart (from a 2 second look) I found a ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe for £143 and a ASUS Maximus V Extreme for £267. With the P8Z77-I Deluxe out performing the ASUS Maximus V Extreme in gaming. So that kinda kills the whole "more expensive is better argument". I'm also aware it's only be 5fps.

Each to their own though,



1. http://www.legitreviews.com/article/601/4/ from 161,52 fps to 168,99 fps with tight timings. a massive 4% difference!


2. I dont want to comment on that, you might be right.. i agree.

3. There is a difference between cooked components and normal temperaturs. If you can find a review that show you gain a performance boost, id' love to read it.

4. I would be bold and call it your personal preferences. You buy a machine with specific specs, they will uphold them.
Now, fujitsu can specify you have a 7200/rpm Harddrive.... but there is a big difference on performance on these.
Usually a computer shipped by a brand, comes with a low-range graphiccard... but if you buy the very same graphic card in the store.. it will perform exactly as good as the one you have in your machine already. a graphic card called gts 520, will be a gts 520 no matter where you buy it.
Reason being, the chip is made by nvidia, not the manufacture who has produced the card.

5. Yes there is a difference on motherboards, i myself got a p8z77-v lx2, which is a cheap as they come. Perhaps i should have mentioned motherboards are not really under this rule.
Also there is a reason a motherboard has the "extreme" name in it.... features :)






4. Not always. The GT 520 is a sort of rarity where all the cards use the same dram type and bus width. For most graphics cards there's some variations in the Dram and the bus width which can make a big difference in performance. There can even be a performance difference just because the manufacturer deviates from the reference design to save money or boost performance.

"Extreme" is usually a marketing gimmick..




Id love to see proof of that.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-02-26 20:59:21 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
I never understood the motivation of people posting an uber PC and asking for confirmation that it is capable of doing something. Low self esteem, maybe?


It's not like it's hard to load up a bunch of clients to see for themselves.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#46 - 2013-02-26 21:01:57 UTC
Vas Vadum wrote:
I've never really bothered with having multiple accounts. In fact, I only have this single account. A friend however has multiple accounts and seems to encounter stability issues trying to run multiple accounts for a while.

So what does one client take? (minimums based on this page).
1.5GHz processing speed?
1.5GB Ram?
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT or higher with 128MB of VRam?

Here are my system specs, how many clients should I be able to run? He mentioned his specs in the topic already.
Core i7-2670QM 2.20GHz (Turbo boost 3.1GHz)
nVidia GeForce GTX 560m 2GB VRAM
8GB RAM
2x 500GB 7200 RPM HDDs

I mentioned my specs so I can compare, plus I was curious what I can do if I really wanted to run multiple clients.

One more question, I heard about specialized clients that basically remove all graphics so a person can run 20+ clients without issues. Is this even allowed? My best guess is it's not.
Again. This topic is not about showing an uber machine. It's asking what exactly is needed to run 4 to 5 clients or more.
Do you need more memory? Well obviously that's a yes.
Do you need more CPU? Probably?
Is there anything else that factors in on running multiple clients successfully?
EDIT: Most helpful person today - Thank you

Cebraio, from the 4S Corporation, from the RAZOR Alliance


If you guys are having stability issues its not the number of clients with those PCs. I run 3-4 on the regular with a corei3 and an old ATI 5770. Maybe the mobile graphics chip has issues with EVE or heat is a problem but not # of clients unless you're trying to run a 10 man mining fleet or something.

Every day I'm wafflin!
ashley Eoner
#47 - 2013-02-27 04:47:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Fonac wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Fonac wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Fonac wrote:





1) from personal experience, I disagree

2) All are possible answers, it only became apparent when he was complaining about not being able to play\getting low fps in specific games I was having no issue with (while both having the same settings because my first assumption was his settings were all uber).

3) Cooked components don't sound like a good thing to me. I'd also agree with you that cooling didn't matter if there weren't over the top solutions like water cooling\freon cooling systems out there, although that's more to do with overclocking.

4) If this is the case how come some manufacturers (Fujitsu Siemens for example have always made poor machines in my eyes) machines sport a tech spec but it falls short when compared to other built machines with the same?

It's like you're ignoring the fact that the motherboard actually matters when it comes to the machine build
http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=734&sel_lang=english

5) and from going on that chart (from a 2 second look) I found a ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe for £143 and a ASUS Maximus V Extreme for £267. With the P8Z77-I Deluxe out performing the ASUS Maximus V Extreme in gaming. So that kinda kills the whole "more expensive is better argument". I'm also aware it's only be 5fps.

Each to their own though,



1. http://www.legitreviews.com/article/601/4/ from 161,52 fps to 168,99 fps with tight timings. a massive 4% difference!


2. I dont want to comment on that, you might be right.. i agree.

3. There is a difference between cooked components and normal temperaturs. If you can find a review that show you gain a performance boost, id' love to read it.

4. I would be bold and call it your personal preferences. You buy a machine with specific specs, they will uphold them.
Now, fujitsu can specify you have a 7200/rpm Harddrive.... but there is a big difference on performance on these.
Usually a computer shipped by a brand, comes with a low-range graphiccard... but if you buy the very same graphic card in the store.. it will perform exactly as good as the one you have in your machine already. a graphic card called gts 520, will be a gts 520 no matter where you buy it.
Reason being, the chip is made by nvidia, not the manufacture who has produced the card.

5. Yes there is a difference on motherboards, i myself got a p8z77-v lx2, which is a cheap as they come. Perhaps i should have mentioned motherboards are not really under this rule.
Also there is a reason a motherboard has the "extreme" name in it.... features :)






4. Not always. The GT 520 is a sort of rarity where all the cards use the same dram type and bus width. For most graphics cards there's some variations in the Dram and the bus width which can make a big difference in performance. There can even be a performance difference just because the manufacturer deviates from the reference design to save money or boost performance.

"Extreme" is usually a marketing gimmick..




Id love to see proof of that.
It's apparent you don't build systems much then..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161430
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121633
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131481

Notice the variation in core clock of the GPU/ram and the type of ram used. Sometimes the difference is even more blatant when one model of card uses 64 bit ram while a slightly pricier version uses 128 bit ram.

If you're really interested in the differences you can do the work for yourself at this point.
The CandyGirl
Candy's Toy Shop
#48 - 2013-02-27 05:24:33 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
My crappy five-year old multi-upgraded-still-obsolescent box will do just fine. I'm frankly more bandwidth challenged than CPU challenged.



Your isp wont let you have one computer connected? Or are you trying to run each client on a separate computer and that is maxing out your allotted bandwidth from your isp, with btw would be hard seeing as most home services are allotted at least 10.

Or do you just have the most common error for computers ( the ID 10T error) and don't know what bandwidth is.

Being a smartass is always better than being a dumbass!
Vas Vadum
Draconian Empire
#49 - 2013-02-27 09:17:21 UTC
Guys, just so you know. I was asking what you need to run multiple clients in case someone wants to buy a system that can handle more. So it's been suggested mostly that it depends on the GPU. While obviously it also needs more memory as well, a computer will need a GPU to be able to run multiple clients. That is what I've gathered so far. Thank you for the help.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2013-02-27 09:40:23 UTC
I've deleted some trolling from this thread.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#51 - 2013-02-27 09:50:05 UTC
I think it should be able to pull off approx 4 clients, if you can tolerate low fps. EVE is still playable at approx 10 fps, btw, afterall, the server runs at 1 fps (1 Hz).

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Vas Vadum
Draconian Empire
#52 - 2013-02-27 10:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vas Vadum
Carniflex wrote:
I think it should be able to pull off approx 4 clients, if you can tolerate low fps. EVE is still playable at approx 10 fps, btw, afterall, the server runs at 1 fps (1 Hz).


I know it (the server) runs at 1FPS. :P I had 24FPS with EVE at max everything and Minecraft at supermax with extreme HD (512x512 texture sizes, default are 16x16 if you didn't know). But yea, mostly the question was to determine what someone would need in a brand new PC to run multiple clients.


For those of you who say laptops are bad, yes. I am aware laptops are always worse than their desktop counterparts. I don't have the luxury of using a desktop as my home internet is a ripoff service that only allows 16GB per month. Can't really game well when you can't download your steam games eh?

Orlacc wrote:
Bottleneck on laptops is always the graphics chip and overheating.

Tell me about it. 160F while playing Just Cause 2. >.> It was 155F - 165F while in EVE a few days ago. My fan was at 3270 RPMs, CPU was 158F, GPU 163. Just from EVE (single client) alone!
Then I found a can of presurized cold air and pulled up speed fan. Blew out a year worth of dust, a huge cloud of grey just came flying out of my system and the temperature started to drop rapidly. I did this for a few hours, had to let the can re-pressurize every 5 min or so though.
After, it dropped 27 Fahrenheit... Amazing. It doesn't hurt to touch the right half of my laptop anymore. :P I woke up this morning with record low temperatures. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30270697/images/recordlow.jpg


If you're on a laptop folks, please remember to air out your system. That little can of cold pressurized air can really clear things up. Especially you gamers. Prolong lifespan by removing dust.
Also, don't tilt the pressure can upside down unless you wanna shoot "white stuff" into/onto whatever you're pointing out. You might risk damaging your system like that. Test the can first by aiming at something not electronic to make sure it doesn't blow stuff out other than air. The can will lose pressure the more you use it, give it a break when it gets weak. The cold stuff in the bottom will rebuild the pressure.
Savage Creampuff
Vivid Entertainment Group
#53 - 2013-02-27 10:58:45 UTC
i used to run 14 windowed at once, much to my shame.

running a first gen i7-920 at 2.66, 2 gtx 260 in sli, 6 gb ram and a 5200 rpm hdd on win 7 64.

the cpu and gpu were hardly being used. my bottleneck was the ram. after 8 clients were up, windows started with using the hdd for ram. 8 was easy to do and could do it all day, 14 required a rigid system of doing things and occasionally sacrificing the neighbours cat to appease the gods.

since then i have upgraded to a ssd and 24 gb ram. i am happy to say my 12 ice miners and 2 orca pilots are no longer subbed, so i don't know how much improvement there would be. I would assume a lot though.
Vas Vadum
Draconian Empire
#54 - 2013-02-27 11:04:51 UTC
Savage Creampuff wrote:
i used to run 14 windowed at once, much to my shame.

running a first gen i7-920 at 2.66, 2 gtx 260 in sli, 6 gb ram and a 5200 rpm hdd on win 7 64.

the cpu and gpu were hardly being used. my bottleneck was the ram. after 8 clients were up, windows started with using the hdd for ram. 8 was easy to do and could do it all day, 14 required a rigid system of doing things and occasionally sacrificing the neighbours cat to appease the gods.

since then i have upgraded to a ssd and 24 gb ram. i am happy to say my 12 ice miners and 2 orca pilots are no longer subbed, so i don't know how much improvement there would be. I would assume a lot though.


Meh, mining got boring. I don't really do it anymore. Basically once you get to the hulk and max out most of your mining skills, the only way to improve is to make an alt and repeat. Then you have a fleet of ships all on one PC. By then the only way to improve is to build a second fleet of ships. :P All you do is the same thing on repeat constantly. At least with missions there's a slight variety and you do more than click a button every 121 seconds and drag cargo every 10 minutes.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#55 - 2013-02-27 11:20:06 UTC
Vas Vadum wrote:
Carniflex wrote:
I think it should be able to pull off approx 4 clients, if you can tolerate low fps. EVE is still playable at approx 10 fps, btw, afterall, the server runs at 1 fps (1 Hz).


I know it (the server) runs at 1FPS. :P I had 24FPS with EVE at max everything and Minecraft at supermax with extreme HD (512x512 texture sizes, default are 16x16 if you didn't know). But yea, mostly the question was to determine what someone would need in a brand new PC to run multiple clients.



Well - mine is anything but brand new, but it can comfortably pull off 6 clients with close to max GFX at ok FPS ~40 (no AA, medium textures, everything else at max). AMD 1055T @ 3.85 GHz, AMD 7870 GFX card, EVE takes approx 1 GB of RAM per client, but I have ofc more than that at 32 GB of RAM.

Thing is EVE is not particularly CPU nor GPU intensive game. What can, often, cause problems when running multiple clients is the video memory, at larger resolutions and settings EVE consumes a fair bit of video memory. The same computer got a bit shaky when running the same clients at lower settings with a 6770 GFX card with just 1 GB of RAM. At 4 clients things got choppy as the card was running out of video memory.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Princess Strawberry
#56 - 2013-02-27 12:03:28 UTC
My PC runs

  • 1 client no problem with the graphics on moderate/high settings
  • 2 clients no problem with the graphics down low (never had any issues so I suspect it can run >2 clients at low settings, certainly I can have a browser open as well no issues and be alt-tabbing between all three easily, and browsers can be real memory hogs)
  • struggles along with 2 clients if I run them both without turning the grahics down low. Changing the graphics settings makes a huge difference, unsurprisingly
  • struggles if you try and use the Captain's Quarters with even 1 client


My PC is pretty old now, about 7 years, and not a gaming PC:

  • Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4 GHz (only 32 bit)
  • 4GB RAM
  • ATI Radeon HD 4800 512MB RAM


My laptop, which is actually a work PC, struggles to run 1 client on minimum everything, but it's usable to change skills and set off science/industry jobs.

  • Intel Core i5 2.5 GHz (only 32 bit)
  • 4GB RAM (but it's a work PC and our IT department put all kinds of software on this which I can't turn off so I suspect a lot of RAM is getting eaten up by those things running in the background)
  • No graphics card, just that horribad integrated "virtual" graphics card thingy


So processor seems to make little difference, RAM /graphics card seems to, and you can do a lot to mitigate a poor PC by turning down the graphics to minimum and switching off the captain's quarters.

http://eveonomics.blogspot.co.uk/
Annihilious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-02-27 12:48:28 UTC
Whilw I agree a Desktop is better I disagree immensly that a Laptop is automatically "crap" for gaming. I have 4 High end Desktops here and 2 ASUS Laptops of their "Republic of Gamers" line. The ASUS Rigs are excellent to run EVE on... Attach a 27 Inch Monitor and external Mouse and Keyboard and it's great, you can play for hours....
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#58 - 2013-02-27 12:52:07 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
The CandyGirl wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
My crappy five-year old multi-upgraded-still-obsolescent box will do just fine. I'm frankly more bandwidth challenged than CPU challenged.



Your isp wont let you have one computer connected? Or are you trying to run each client on a separate computer and that is maxing out your allotted bandwidth from your isp, with btw would be hard seeing as most home services are allotted at least 10.

Or do you just have the most common error for computers ( the ID 10T error) and don't know what bandwidth is.
I know precisely what bandwidth is. I did systems and networking for a living for over a decade (before I wised up and got a job that didn't involve working for and with idiots - like some folks I could name who make unwaranted and stupid assumptions minus evidence).

I meant precisely what I said - Network throughput is more limiting for me than CPU cycles are. Adding additrional boxes would not solve that. Indeed, it's unneccessary; my box will run two clients simultaneously just fine - Did you notice that from previously, or were you too busy leaping to conclusions? Does that mean my ISP sux? Well yes, yes it does. It's effectively a local monopoly - The alternatives are uneconomical for marginal gains in performance.
I deal with it.
*shrug*

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
ashley Eoner
#59 - 2013-02-27 15:37:52 UTC
Vas Vadum wrote:
Guys, just so you know. I was asking what you need to run multiple clients in case someone wants to buy a system that can handle more. So it's been suggested mostly that it depends on the GPU. While obviously it also needs more memory as well, a computer will need a GPU to be able to run multiple clients. That is what I've gathered so far. Thank you for the help.
My bargain bin e4400 system running xp 32 bit can run at least 2 clients with maxed settings with 20 people on grid fighting at 1280x1024. IT's kind of an oddity in that it's running a cheap asrock g41 board with ddr3 ram.

My main system which consists of an OCed e7200 (3.5ghz core 1600mhz fsb) with 4mb of ddr2 and a 5770 running win 7 64bit can run multiple clients easily on my two screens (one is 1920x1200 other is 1920x1080).


So basically to answer your question any decent system built within the last 6 years....
Vas Vadum
Draconian Empire
#60 - 2013-02-27 15:38:04 UTC
Annihilious wrote:
Whilw I agree a Desktop is better I disagree immensly that a Laptop is automatically "crap" for gaming. I have 4 High end Desktops here and 2 ASUS Laptops of their "Republic of Gamers" line. The ASUS Rigs are excellent to run EVE on... Attach a 27 Inch Monitor and external Mouse and Keyboard and it's great, you can play for hours....

http://www.asus.com/ROG/G74SX/ <- is my laptop. :P
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