Science & Industry

We already know that CCP hates miners.

The rorq... hmmm

The compression interface is a farce and needs to be fixed. Inputs, processes, and outputs should be able to be done form a single window. As it is now I am bouncing between 4 windows trying to keep the ore rolling along. The sad part is the different windows do not display the same data: case in point. You have 4 processes going, one finishes so you deliver it in the science and industry window. You put ore in the hold, and start a new process, but the production window shows all 4 lines as free... select one and it won't load because it tells you that line is busy. Its like a best guess as to which line is actually empty and which one is not. by the time you get it loaded 2 other lines have been delivered and you have wasted another cycle of your industrial module.

Lets not even get into why WH space cannot use the clone bay... and has been said, that fancy tractor beam with all the bonuses, unused because you are not going to risk a 2 bill ship in a belt. Gang assist modules... only get a bonus if the ship is running. sort of wastes them too... why not a passive mod that works like the orca, with the active mode giving you the better boosts is you want to be going through the fuel. I know someone envisioned the rorq sitting in the belt tracktoring cans to it and compressing them on the spot but this is just not reality. Rather its a good way to get the thing killed in no time.

yeah that dscan and local are broken on all mining vessels.

I know everytime we show up in null the miners all scatter to thier little holes, I sure wish null had no local. Afterall it should be that way! I mean who is providing this service anyway. but then that is another dicussion outside this forum

GP post is pointing out that whoever said the mining ships dont have D-Scan/local is wrong...

You make some assumptions that are incorrect so I doubt you have ever mined in null sec.
Rorqual's always sit at towers, rarely if every are they used in belts. Their real value is in their ability to compress and of course bonuses.
If you are diligent, you will never lose a hulk in null sec. I've never lost a hulk in null, 4 years and counting...
Most people mine with multiple toons, when mining ABC's it's not hard to make 150-200 mil per hour with two bonus'd hulks.



You have a point. The tractor bonus should be removed and something useful put in its place. Perhaps a reduction in jump fuel required?

I don't believe I mis-interpreted how the ship was designed to be used. Looking at the description and abilities of the ship it was designed to jump 5 hulks into null, provide bonuses while compressing, clone jump those hulk pilots to you in null, mine, GTFO when done. That on paper was what the rorqual was designed to do.

Yes in reality it is NOT used that way at all. WHY? cause its Big expensive easy target and everybody knows that (except CCP who obviously has never used there own designs ) In reality the rorqual sits in pos shields and just compresses ore....Why even have the ship then. Can't we just make a pos module to do the same thing (since in essence thats what the rorq is i guess).

And Silk your right I have never taken my rorq into null, Im too scared. I have hulk mined in null but only in NPC null in an dead end system that I knew was not frequently traveled. I hated the fact I had to use a small pos to dump the ore in and use the pos refinerery (losing 25% in the process, despite wasting my time training the skill only to realize it does not work on pos modules grrrrr) because I didn't have the means of getting the ore to a station. All in all the isk was crap. I have never tried it again since it just was not worth it. (I averaged about 30mil an hour in null sec, My lvl 4 mission runners blow that away and I afk those things). I guess I was disapointed in all the prep work, sneaking into the system, constantly watching the DS and local, then getting the ore back to a market. only to be flabergasted by the lack of isk.

Over all I am disappointed that CCP does not take the miner seriously.

Wrong. Prices are low because you get minerals from loot and drones in missions and make a ton more isk by doing so. Get refining skill up and a POS and suddenly just from ratting you can make the minerals to create your supercaps.

Mining is pointless. Highsec has little to no profit per hour and nullsec offers nothing to entice the risk.

Let's compare:
-PvE mission lvl 4. easy 10-30mil from salvage, bounties, and reward for mission. Loot can be turned into minerals for manufactoring for no risk. You fit a super tank with stable cap; afk while your drones kill everything. No risk.
-Nullsec/Lowsec ratting. 500mil+ BS rats to free kill and farm, random miners and other ratters to kill for extra loot and turn into minerals for your supercaps. Assault frigs can do this and make more isk/hour. The Risk in Assault frig=Minimal. Cloakies being the only thing to catch them.

-PvE Highsec Mining. Easy 10mil/hour with little to no risk(suicide gankers. Still more risk then PvE missions). We compete for quickly depleted but slowly regenerated rocks and have to constantly fly back to station to drop off ore if not with an alt orca. More active then the lvl 4 missions darn near.

-Nullsec/Lowsec mining. 60mil/hour, tremendous risk as ratters, passerthroughs and various others d-scan and see a hulk; it's straight to the belts for them to try for an easy kill. ABC ores profit is minimal. If paying for protection you're looking at maybe 30mil/hour. With incursions out giving players 1bil/day this is pathetic.

Now explain to me why mining is still a part of this game if you can "Mine" mission loot?
Stupidly ******** economic design.

My real issue is with these new 'incursions' that offer such a TREMENDOUS isk/hour/day reward with almost no risk due to RR fleets. F that. If miners can't get good isk because of this carebear bull giving players no loss of ship for HUGE income then remove remote rep mechanics and let ships be lost. If you wanna make a billion a day, be prepared to lose ships.

I mean a 300mil setup of a ship with 2x 100-200mil RR boats make enough to replace their ships 10 fold with no risk. But a hulk wants to make their max profit? They make 60mil/hr which during this hour it's probably lower because they have to keep fleeing to a safe spot everytime somebody passes through the system.

This entire ordeal is bullcrap and the fact that ANYONE sits there and has even a SMALL idea this is a good way for it to be needs to have their safety nets removed; lose their ships every 6 hours and then comeback and tell us miner pilots that having no safety or minimal isk income is OKAY.

Combat pilots should RELY on us. Not LAUGH at our income. We should be overshadowing them because we should hold the power over their ships.

EVE is designed with the idea that 'when you die, a clone takes your place'. So why not let the ships be destroyed more often? Stop giving people a way to survive for a year in 1 ship and make THOUSANDS more isk then a miner who produces their mods/ships.

I can't believe this is even a 'discussion'. It's a fact. Miners have it bad and we need an income increase, ESPECIALLY with incursions giving so much income.

The concept of mining itself is cool, the actual motions of it is very boring, unrewarding and tedious. And since mining IS a repetitive activity from IRL it's hard to make it not a repetitive activity in game without it not being mining anymore.

How exactly is local a benefit to the hunters, and not the miners?

you have no choice to conform or not to.. like a real world law of physics, game rules just happen... you conform to gravity not by a conscious choice but because you live here.