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CCP is not the God of EVE ... stop over buffnerfing

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SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#61 - 2013-02-26 10:29:58 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Sigras wrote:
game play > RP experience

How terrible would it be if Blizzard decided that the infestor was a unit that had too much lore surrounding it to ever change or nerf. It had become a legend in StarCraft. Does that make it ok to leave a totally broken unit in the game that was ruining game play?

I understand the love for RP, and I always try to come up with RP ways to correct perceived issues in games, but when that doesnt work, a game designer should error on the side of game play every time.

A game can be great with little to no backstory, lore, or immersion as long as the game play is great:
TF2
Gary's Mod
Unreal Tournament
Natural Selection II
Bejeweled
Stratego
Risk


Its nearly impossible for the reverse to be true . . . besides, this isnt even my biggest issue with the RP in eve. The biggest immersion breaking thing for me is that ships seem to have a top speed and dont react as they actually would in space . . .


I know im just talking about an ideal case... which is what i always strive for

also its not like eve was totally broken because the cane was a badass ship.... if u drive a lamborghini past a bunch of beetles of course all the beetle drivers will scream for a nerfing.


beetles and lamborghinis just happen to exist... thats life.... eve is discrediting eve by balancing it.

Legba
Sigras
Conglomo
#62 - 2013-02-26 10:41:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
which is better than destroying eve by leaving it unbalanced . . .

honestly which would you rather have? one crazy ship of legend that everyone resents and knows is overpowered or 8 fully functional ships that all have different roles and purposes?

We're not talking about ideals here, were talking about real world, what CCP can do with their limited resources.

if you could only pick one, which one would you pick?

1. cool lore
2. a well balanced fun to play game
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#63 - 2013-02-26 10:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
Sigras wrote:
which is better than destroying eve by leaving it unbalanced . . .

honestly which would you rather have? one crazy ship of legend that everyone resents and knows is overpowered or 8 fully functional ships that all have different roles and purposes?

We're not talking about ideals here, were talking about real world, what CCP can do with their limited resources.

if you could only pick one, which one would you pick?

1. cool lore
2. a well balanced fun to play game


if cruisers hadnt been balanced noone would have ever noticed, it wasnt broken before and it isnt now.

what, a reality where ships get worse? get outta here !

eve was great fun before.

Legba
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#64 - 2013-02-26 11:04:56 UTC
Every badposter regarding the Hurricane:
"It was mostly fine/balanced"
"It just needed not to be able to fit everything"
"It needed a bit less speed"
"It needed the neuts"
"They took away too much PG"
"They reuined it when they removed the highslot"
"They made it too slow"
"Now it can't fit anything anymore which was it's strength"

See how all those statements fit perfectly together. Just like religion almost.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#65 - 2013-02-26 11:21:53 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Every badposter regarding the Hurricane:
"It was mostly fine/balanced"
"It just needed not to be able to fit everything"
"It needed a bit less speed"
"It needed the neuts"
"They took away too much PG"
"They reuined it when they removed the highslot"
"They made it too slow"
"Now it can't fit anything anymore which was it's strength"

See how all those statements fit perfectly together. Just like religion almost.


the truth about the cane was its speed and dps meaning its capability made it fun to fly... they could have simply made other cruisers better..... its not like hurricanes never got popped is it?

Legba
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#66 - 2013-02-26 11:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
the truth about the cane was its speed and dps meaning its capability made it fun to fly... they could have simply made other cruisers better..... its not like hurricanes never got popped is it?

No, no, no, no and no. Also, no. They could not just make the other ones better. Why? Power creep.

If you nerf the hurricane, every other battlecruiser, cruiser, destroyer and frigate will by extension get a buff.
If you buff the other battlecruisers, all the same ships will by extension get nerfed and will have to be buffed again.

And the rage would be just as loud if they buffed every ship except the Drake and the Hurricane. Boofuckinghoo, you buffed everything else, now my Drake/Cane will be useless. Same ****.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
MarkyJ
#67 - 2013-02-26 11:31:13 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Sigras wrote:
which is better than destroying eve by leaving it unbalanced . . .

honestly which would you rather have? one crazy ship of legend that everyone resents and knows is overpowered or 8 fully functional ships that all have different roles and purposes?

We're not talking about ideals here, were talking about real world, what CCP can do with their limited resources.

if you could only pick one, which one would you pick?

1. cool lore
2. a well balanced fun to play game


if cruisers hadnt been balanced noone would have ever noticed, it wasnt broken before and it isnt now.

what, a reality where ships get worse? get outta here !

eve was great fun before.


Believe or not, stuff can get worse in reality.

For example, cars have been getting heavier to the point a classic golf GTI accelerates noticably faster than a modern golf with comparable engine.

There might be other reasons. These ships are traded on the open market so they might be subject to commercial law. You could say the old model of hurricane used a reactor liscenced from the caldari, who revoked the liscence due to political reasons forcing the minmatar to resort to an older and less powerful reactor.

I'm pro-balance and too an extent I can accept changes to the lore (some ship changes =/= core mechanic changes by the way) for gameplay reasons. I think the prophecy being turned into a droneboat with missiles is a bit of an ass-pull but I'll accept it since the new ship works.
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#68 - 2013-02-26 11:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
MarkyJ wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Sigras wrote:
which is better than destroying eve by leaving it unbalanced . . .

honestly which would you rather have? one crazy ship of legend that everyone resents and knows is overpowered or 8 fully functional ships that all have different roles and purposes?

We're not talking about ideals here, were talking about real world, what CCP can do with their limited resources.

if you could only pick one, which one would you pick?

1. cool lore
2. a well balanced fun to play game


if cruisers hadnt been balanced noone would have ever noticed, it wasnt broken before and it isnt now.

what, a reality where ships get worse? get outta here !

eve was great fun before.


Believe or not, stuff can get worse in reality.

For example, cars have been getting heavier to the point a classic golf GTI accelerates noticably faster than a modern golf with comparable engine.

There might be other reasons. These ships are traded on the open market so they might be subject to commercial law. You could say the old model of hurricane used a reactor liscenced from the caldari, who revoked the liscence due to political reasons forcing the minmatar to resort to an older and less powerful reactor.

I'm pro-balance and too an extent I can accept changes to the lore (some ship changes =/= core mechanic changes by the way) for gameplay reasons. I think the prophecy being turned into a droneboat with missiles is a bit of an ass-pull but I'll accept it since the new ship works.


I also am pro balance... i just dont like how ccp goes about it. If the changes are due to commercial law ok then ccp should state that in game, yet i still dont see how existing canes can magically change Blink ccp maybe should infuse the new commercial cane model more carefully.

and this would need to be accompanied by ship regulation controls in highsec meaning ships would need a warrant.

and ccp would need to impement a whole new feature meaning the addition of itsself roleplaying concord... which would then again go aginst what eve advertizes to be. a completely open sandbox.

the easiest way to do it is to say recent advances in technology mean new systems on .... named cruisers have changed positivley in order to fight the currently dominant named cruisers.

Legba
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#69 - 2013-02-26 11:51:15 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
the truth about the cane was its speed and dps meaning its capability made it fun to fly... they could have simply made other cruisers better..... its not like hurricanes never got popped is it?

No, no, no, no and no. Also, no. They could not just make the other ones better. Why? Power creep.

If you nerf the hurricane, every other battlecruiser, cruiser, destroyer and frigate will by extension get a buff.
If you buff the other battlecruisers, all the same ships will by extension get nerfed and will have to be buffed again.

And the rage would be just as loud if they buffed every ship except the Drake and the Hurricane. Boofuckinghoo, you buffed everything else, now my Drake/Cane will be useless. Same ****.


i think you are wrong.

Legba
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-02-26 12:21:23 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
the truth about the cane was its speed and dps meaning its capability made it fun to fly... they could have simply made other cruisers better..... its not like hurricanes never got popped is it?

No, no, no, no and no. Also, no. They could not just make the other ones better. Why? Power creep.

If you nerf the hurricane, every other battlecruiser, cruiser, destroyer and frigate will by extension get a buff.
If you buff the other battlecruisers, all the same ships will by extension get nerfed and will have to be buffed again.

And the rage would be just as loud if they buffed every ship except the Drake and the Hurricane. Boofuckinghoo, you buffed everything else, now my Drake/Cane will be useless. Same ****.


i think you are wrong.


Incorrect. He is right in what he is saying. You are the one who has it all arse about face. Eve is even better now than it ever has been and it's going to get even better. The rebalance is here. It's staying. Get over it or quit.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#71 - 2013-02-26 12:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Every other battlecruiser was largely irrelevant. The only ships worth flying were the Drake and the Hurricane. Now people actually fly other things. Imagine my astonishment when the day after Retribution 1.1, I saw Harbingers, Prophecies, Brutixes and Cyclones undocking in Dodixie. There may or may not be a little more tweaking to be done to the specific stats and some background attributes (like having nearly the manufacturing cost of a battleship), but for the most part this rebalance has made the other battlecruisers viable again and brought the previously too-exceptional Hurricane and Drake more in line with the rest of their shiptype without rendering them obsolete and useless. CCP brought them down a little bit and brought the other ships up a little bit. The alternative, of course, would be to have simply brought the Drake and Cane down to match where all the other ships were. I can assure you, you wouldn't have liked that.

They're still good ships, they simply require a little adaptation in order to use them, since using them the old way no longer works quite as well.

This is EVE, though. Adapt or die.
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#72 - 2013-02-26 12:40:13 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Every other battlecruiser was largely irrelevant. The only ships worth flying were the Drake and the Hurricane. Now people actually fly other things. Imagine my astonishment when the day after Retribution 1.1, I saw Harbingers, Prophecies, Brutixes and Cyclones undocking in Dodixie. There may or may not be a little more tweaking to be done to the specific stats and some background attributes (like having nearly the manufacturing cost of a battleship), but for the most part this rebalance has made the other battlecruisers viable again and brought the previously too-exceptional Hurricane and Drake more in line with the rest of their shiptype without rendering them obsolete and useless. CCP brought them down a little bit and brought the other ships up a little bit. The alternative, of course, would be to have simply brought the Drake and Cane down to match where all the other ships were. I can assure you, you wouldn't have liked that.

They're still good ships, they simply require a little adaptation in order to use them, since using them the old way no longer works quite as well.

This is EVE, though. Adapt or die.


I may choose to adapt... eve is officialy no longer a universe to me, it now just a game.

Legba
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#73 - 2013-02-26 12:43:33 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I may choose to adapt... eve is officialy no longer a universe to me, it now just a game.

Wow, you are a sad man...

You no longer sit on the throne of pvp with your be all end all overpowered battlecruiser, and this ruins the entire game for you?
Send your stuff in my general direction, thx

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#74 - 2013-02-26 12:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
Hannott Thanos wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I may choose to adapt... eve is officialy no longer a universe to me, it now just a game.

Wow, you are a sad man...

You no longer sit on the throne of pvp with your be all end all overpowered battlecruiser, and this ruins the entire game for you?
Send your stuff in my general direction, thx


who said i was on throne of pvp im not talking about pvp at all this has nothing to do with me winning at pvp. its about ccp breaking eves artistic credibility now before u answer tell me do you know what i mean with artistic credibility?

Legba
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#75 - 2013-02-26 12:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I may choose to adapt... eve is officialy no longer a universe to me, it now just a game.

Wow, you are a sad man...

You no longer sit on the throne of pvp with your be all end all overpowered battlecruiser, and this ruins the entire game for you?
Send your stuff in my general direction, thx


who said i was on throne of pvp im not talking about pvp at all this has nothing to do with me winning at pvp. its about ccp breaking eves artistic credibility now before u answer tell me do you know what i mean with artistic credibility?

I don't think that word has a meaning...
Yeah it does, but what has it got to do with anything in this context?

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#76 - 2013-02-26 12:48:05 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I may choose to adapt... eve is officialy no longer a universe to me, it now just a game.

Wow, you are a sad man...

You no longer sit on the throne of pvp with your be all end all overpowered battlecruiser, and this ruins the entire game for you?
Send your stuff in my general direction, thx


who said i was on throne of pvp im not talking about pvp at all this has nothing to do with me winning at pvp. its about ccp breaking eves artistic credibility now before u answer tell me do you know what i mean with artistic credibility?

I don't think that word has a meaning...


then you must educate yourself.

Legba
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#77 - 2013-02-26 12:49:14 UTC
I'm off to overbuffnerf my education! Cool
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#78 - 2013-02-26 12:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
Gypsio III wrote:
I'm off to overbuffnerf my education! Cool


that may just get you a job making a grade entertainment my friend.

but heres a tip ... leave away the nerf and just buff.

Legba
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#79 - 2013-02-26 12:51:20 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
I'm off to overbuffnerf my education! Cool


that may just get you a job making a grade entertainment my friend.

but heres a tip ... leave away the nerf and just buff.

Only buffing is what breaks games if you didn't know

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#80 - 2013-02-26 12:53:16 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
I'm off to overbuffnerf my education! Cool


that may just get you a job making a grade entertainment my friend.

but heres a tip ... leave away the nerf and just buff.


But buffing a single ship has the effect of relatively nerfing every other ship. Does not compute!