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Change to AWSD Flight controls to Ships

Author
Marie Hartinez
Aries Munitions and Defense
#21 - 2013-02-26 00:45:06 UTC
Haven't seen one of these threads in a while.

Surrender is still your slightly less painful option.

Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-02-26 00:45:24 UTC
if WASD was wanted there would be emergent content. the slogans said so!

forums.  serious business.

Sab Sab Five
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-02-26 01:26:13 UTC
aside from the general dislike of the idea, and of course the other uses of such key buttons...

its not terribad if we could actually make it so that the buttons were customizable. I can see setting "orbit" and as you approach you might use "A" and "S" to tilt your craft "up" or "down", depending on how you like your key setups... and also "A" and "D" could be used to strafe for better angle of approach.

It would be far more subtle than actually controlling an avatar in a 2d world with no up or down, but you wouldnt use "W" and "S" for acceleration necessarily.

There is already alot going on in the UI though, and to have yoru hand married to the keys for subtle ship movements would almost not be worth it, but i can see it being nice for fast, small craft pvp where angles of descent as you fall towards opponents far off might matter a bit more.

There really is no "auto-strafe" buttons in this game, u either approach with direct angle, or orbit and can vary angle by orbit radius, or you simply click in space. Of course, it doesnt matter since there is no "facing" in this game either. But angles are still important, especially if you havent been paying attention to your speed relative to your guns tracking and your angle v/s opponents ship
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#24 - 2013-02-26 01:39:51 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
AWSD only works with two dimensions anyway.

As the fellow above me pointed out, you are thinking Forward, Reverse, Left, Right.
In a flight sim it would be Nose up, Nose down, Left, Right... with other keys handling the amount of thrust.

Not practical for general EvE play, but as Mr. ePeen pointed out a mini game would be interesting with fighters/fighter bombers. The one second server tick might make it a very frustrating experience though, even if the server load would allow it to begin with.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

rareden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-02-26 01:41:56 UTC
This would be awesome but would involve people to do something, which they would complain about so will never happen
stoicfaux
#26 - 2013-02-26 01:47:19 UTC
Sara Mars wrote:
Title just bout says it all, my only questions can the server handle it? And would big fleet battles be adversly affected with said change.

Discuss

First question should be: Why?

What benefit or improvement would wasd controls provide?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-02-26 01:56:10 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
AWSD only works with two dimensions anyway.

As the fellow above me pointed out, you are thinking Forward, Reverse, Left, Right.
In a flight sim it would be Nose up, Nose down, Left, Right... with other keys handling the amount of thrust.

Not practical for general EvE play, but as Mr. ePeen pointed out a mini game would be interesting with fighters/fighter bombers. The one second server tick might make it a very frustrating experience though, even if the server load would allow it to begin with.

Right, I didn't think about that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Sab Sab Five
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-02-26 01:57:46 UTC
Quote:
What benefit or improvement would wasd controls provide?


well for one, better angles in fights, if you could strafe, this without having to worry about changing "orbit distance" to suit your angular needs, or having to click in space, which takes you out of the relative equation with regards to the target ship.

it would do nothing but present a way in which to garner better angles.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#29 - 2013-02-26 02:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Ranger 1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
AWSD only works with two dimensions anyway.

As the fellow above me pointed out, you are thinking Forward, Reverse, Left, Right.
In a flight sim it would be Nose up, Nose down, Left, Right... with other keys handling the amount of thrust.

Not practical for general EvE play, but as Mr. ePeen pointed out a mini game would be interesting with fighters/fighter bombers. The one second server tick might make it a very frustrating experience though, even if the server load would allow it to begin with.


In a space sim, you're going to need a bit different controls from an atmospheric flight sim (I'm assuming that we would also want to move EVE away from submarines in space to spaceships in space at the same time)

Pitch Up
Pitch Down
Roll Clockwise
Roll Anticlockwise
Yaw Left
Yaw Right
Thrust Up (Probably at least twice, since a combat spacecraft would have, at a minimum, fore and aft primary thrust units*)
Thrust Down

So now we're at WASDQECZ. And that's before Module, Camera, etc controls.


*There's some great ideas of what a combat spacecraft might look like. They're mostly attempting to approximate balls with thrusters in every direction and weapons poking out the gaps.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#30 - 2013-02-26 03:07:29 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
AWSD only works with two dimensions anyway.

As the fellow above me pointed out, you are thinking Forward, Reverse, Left, Right.
In a flight sim it would be Nose up, Nose down, Left, Right... with other keys handling the amount of thrust.

Not practical for general EvE play, but as Mr. ePeen pointed out a mini game would be interesting with fighters/fighter bombers. The one second server tick might make it a very frustrating experience though, even if the server load would allow it to begin with.


In a space sim, you're going to need a bit different controls from an atmospheric flight sim (I'm assuming that we would also want to move EVE away from submarines in space to spaceships in space at the same time)

Pitch Up
Pitch Down
Roll Clockwise
Roll Anticlockwise
Yaw Left
Yaw Right
Thrust Up (Probably at least twice, since a combat spacecraft would have, at a minimum, fore and aft primary thrust units*)
Thrust Down

So now we're at WASDQECZ. And that's before Module, Camera, etc controls.


*There's some great ideas of what a combat spacecraft might look like. They're mostly attempting to approximate balls with thrusters in every direction and weapons poking out the gaps.


Rather than 'Key controls' which are FPS like. Extend on our current HUD system, we have Speed -/+ on the Hud.
Now add a + (Can overlay the capacitor, or something, I can't make a mock up).
This + then allows you to move a slider on the Up/Down axis and another on the Left/Right axis. Setting a turn amount. The ship then proceeds to turn whatever distance you set, and as it turns, the slider returns to zero. (Maybe an option to 'lock' it which makes it turn rate at current speed or something). This is Submarines in space after all, lets make controls that match the way the flight system actually works. 10 degrees down angle, rudder 20 degrees left, all ships come around.
Fleets can then actually do turns.

Take it one step further (& CCP would have to code server side support for ship orientation for this) and add a 360 degree dial in the middle of the +, and this allows you to rotate your ship, 0 being the standard 'plane' as defined by the tactical overlay, etc.

It gives control of direction without double clicking since double click is problematic when space is busy because it works differently if you double click an object to double click in space, but it doesn't turn Eve into an arcade game.
dark heartt
#31 - 2013-02-26 03:09:23 UTC
I already get enough lag in Australia, why do you want to give me more?
Sab Sab Five
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-02-26 03:28:23 UTC
kangaroo isk farmers.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-02-26 03:35:00 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
AWSD only works with two dimensions anyway.


W pitch up
S pitch down and then add in throttle controls, and then you have your average flight sim controls...

But yeeeeah... I can't see this being viable until server technology improves for much more constant updating, and fiber optic cable becomes the norm. Would be nice to be able to set it where I have to press a key before it'd select my direction though.. Like A, movement cursor appears then click. A lot of times double clicking is either unresponsive, or it ends up responding to single clicks instead... it's kind of weird and annoying, but maybe that's my end?
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#34 - 2013-02-26 07:24:11 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Play a flight simulator at 1 frame per second. That's how fast the server updates and how fast your controls would respond. Mouse commands/clicks will remain superior.


Actually.. I seem to recall a Dev post somewhere, (maybe not here), that this wasn't at all improbable. I don't recall exactly how it was explained, but it had something to do with server tics and pings and so on.

EVE is what it is though. As much as I tend to enjoy first-person-perspective pilot simulations, (and I do), it just doesn't have to be in EVE to make EVE fun or enjoyable. If it was, it certainly wouldn't result in me investing more or less time than I do now. Maybe at first, but I'm certain it wouldn't be long before I returned to my usual habits.

Granted, if it was introduced, I wouldn't suggest it for standard gameplay, but maybe as part of an alternative sort of gameplay. Planetside Avatar gameplay for instance, with much smaller craft used for exploration and scouting of planets surfaces or something. Maybe even small craft for accessing ancient abandoned facilities and stations in space. No pods in these of course.

That would also be done on battleservers, (or something like), so EVE TQ tics would be irrelevant.
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Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#35 - 2013-02-26 07:26:42 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Next youll want joystick controls......

years ago, CCP mentioned in a fanfest they're planning joystick controls. Blink
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#36 - 2013-02-26 07:27:11 UTC
This hasn't popped up before.

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#37 - 2013-02-26 07:35:11 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
This + then allows you to move a slider on the Up/Down axis and another on the Left/Right axis. Setting a turn amount. The ship then proceeds to turn whatever distance you set, and as it turns, the slider returns to zero. (Maybe an option to 'lock' it which makes it turn rate at current speed or something). This is Submarines in space after all, lets make controls that match the way the flight system actually works. 10 degrees down angle, rudder 20 degrees left, all ships come around.
Fleets can then actually do turns.


That sounds horrible. Have you ever tried a flight simulator with a mouse only mode?

I'm not actually sure they exist.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#38 - 2013-02-26 07:35:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Aren Madigan wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
AWSD only works with two dimensions anyway.


W pitch up
S pitch down and then add in throttle controls, and then you have your average flight sim controls...

But yeeeeah... I can't see this being viable until server technology improves for much more constant updating, and fiber optic cable becomes the norm. Would be nice to be able to set it where I have to press a key before it'd select my direction though.. Like A, movement cursor appears then click. A lot of times double clicking is either unresponsive, or it ends up responding to single clicks instead... it's kind of weird and annoying, but maybe that's my end?


Or you can use your mouse for control in addition to WASD.

Simple set I rather like:

W - Strafe up
S - Strafe Down
A - Roll Left
D - Roll Right

Q - Strafe Left
E - Strafe Right

Mouse forward - Pitch Down
Mouse Back - Pitch Up

Mouse Left - Rotate Left (i.e: Fires Aft Port and Forward Starboard Thrusters simultaneously)
Mouse Right - Rotate Right

These can pretty much allow any combination of maneuvers when combined with various levels of engine and thruster power.

Add Right-Click to cycle through available weapons, Spacebar to fire, left click to boost thruster power, (over time pressed), middle scroll to adjust engine power, Shift to cut engines and thrusters, etc.. I could go on obviously, but that is essentially the best control set I've found personally. I made some of it up of course.

edit: Actually, I'd also add to that, middle mouse click to lock target on whatever ship/object is in your targeting reticle, and hold side mouse button, scroll and release to activate EWAR module or secondary weapons systems. Right side hold, scroll, and release for activating defensive system, armor rep, etc..

One reason WASD controls might be impractical for standard EVE mechanics is that they could quite probably get very complicated as a result of the numerous modules, but those latter two controls in combination with the right click control for cycling weapons could be used for High, Middle, and Low racks as well.

Not impossible, but still rather complicated, and--as mentioned--there is the client-server-clients thing to consider. No matter the argument for, it boils down to whether or not it is possible to do in a practical fashion and keep gameplay smooth for all parties.
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Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#39 - 2013-02-26 08:05:02 UTC
First of all, it is WASD... not "awsd".

Secondly, no.

Thank you.

Respect the EVE
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#40 - 2013-02-26 08:09:40 UTC
I could see it, but not for Eve.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden