EVE General Discussion

I bet he has mwd fitted but what do I know, I cant fly an Orca

DCII, Bulkheads II, Shield mods and rigs, command bonuses and overheat. It's not rocket surgery. In fact, you could probably do it without the command bonuses if you want to, or (otherwise) even if you drop a shield mod or so for some other utility.
Yeah, see… this is the kind of false economy that makes victims such victims. Onoz, I can't possibly spend ε ISK to protect my several-hundred-mil investment because that cuts my profits by .0003%.

Are you really going to quibble over 3,000 EHP? Really?

Oh, and…Yes, but that's not quite what you said at first. That was what perhaps you meant, but you weren't particularly clear about it. What you said was “that build wihtout at shield tank costs about 407 mil isk”. At any rate, what I was reacting to was the false economy of the statement “its already over 400mil adding more stuff to that ship will just make it cost more” (which is why I quoted that bit). No, adding more stuff will not “just make it cost more” — it will reduce the risk of that investment.

That is the full build of my 300k Orca. As you can see, I have 4 MW to spare. Figure it out.

Also, if you really go nuts (as in, you start to increase that risk again… and you probably have to accept an agonizing 15s align time to make the risk increase even further), you can push the poor Orca to 370k EHP and beyond, but that one will be left as an exercise for the reader.

In case you were unaware, that personal responsibility stuff was cooked up by people who felt bad about never giving to charity in their lives, even though they were multi-millionaires. Making charitable donations tax deductible helps them a little, but not enough.

WTF? Lets stay on topic. This is about teaching miners some piloting mechanics and reaffirming the intentional design of vulnerability in the game, both of which are clearly a struggle for many to understand and /or accept. This is not some political/moral discussion.

Morality has nothing to do with this thread at all. Eve is designed to facilitate "immoral" activities that other games restrict with safety mechanics. Eve does not. When players scam other players out of thousands of dollars equivalent in real cash, the developers sit back and applaud. Suicide ganks are also clearly allowed and supported by the game's mechanical design.

Like a fellow poster already said, Concord is designed to create a consequence after you commit a crime, not prevent one.

No one will ever be truly safe in EvE if they are decloaked, and undocked in space, no matter where they are. This is EvE 101 stuff. You can lose your ship at anytime, any place, whether you are watching the screen or not.

Well well well! If it isn't the Queen of Hulkageddon herself. Welcome to our lively discussion, good to see you back in the game, hopefully you weren't locked out for too long...

Personally, I think we're splitting hairs here. Whether anyone sees ganking as "illegal" or not is pure RP fluff. From a mechanics perspective, the developers' intent is clear - anyone should be able to lose their ship, anytime, anywhere. The Goons, as well as those that organize "community events" like yourself, are simply playing the game as it is designed to be played. CCP is unsympathetic to "victims" in situations like these because they have been both warned of the dangers, and have plenty of gameplay options at their disposal to avoid unfortunate losses.

The fact remains, those that remain angry over suicide ganks are simply unwilling to modify their methods or location of operation, and feel that the game should be modified to allow them a style of play that is completely free from danger. I support their right to ask for such changes so the developers can ultimately decide, and in the meantime I will continue to support the right of all capsuleers to engage in piracy, theft, blackmail, deceit, destruction,and murder anywhere in the game, as it was designed.

TL;DR: This turned into a bit of a rant about why AFK mining is not the smartest thing to do.

About d-scan. To the comments earlier on regarding d-scan being "cluttered" in high sec systems. There's a thing called the "overview", learn to use it in conjunction with the "use current overview settings" check-box on d-scan. You'll find that you can clear through the clutter very effectively.

Mining *is* possible while constantly aligned. You just have to do some scouting of the belts and spend 10minutes or so making warp-to bookmarks (skill train for micro-warps and fit a 1MN MWD to a frigate like the Amarrian Executioner for a ship that will make this much quicker).

Scout the field itself. How many of those rocks are going to be within 12km (leaving 3km for movement) of your ships if you crawl from one end to the other aligned with one of your bookmarks?

People keep talking about PvP ships showing up on d-scan like it's a surprise. Unless you are in wormhole-space, and unless CCP changes local, use said local. Someone jumps in system, open their profile. While it's not always the case, if they have a -1.8 sec status and a big red WANTED pasted across their face, you might want to consider checking your alignment speed so when a Brutix named "De4th Br1Ng3r!!" shows up on d-scan, you can decide that maybe it's time to check on the space dust at that warp to point.

If you are into mining and pay attention and use d-scan: Know your celestials! Smaller systems make the d-scan game a pain because you might be within scan range of a station or gate. This has advantages and disadvantages. When said Brutix shows up on d-scan and the pilot has been in system for a bit, is he coming towards you, or is he going to the gate/station?
On the flip side, if someone new pops up on local, and the ship shows almost at the same time on d-scan, you have more info than they may want you to have. Brutix, -1.3sec, lots of haulers/pods/miners on killboards? Again, check your alignment.

Warping out is up to the miner and how much they want to risk

Cloaked frigates? Dont' fly 13km above the rocks. Hug them as close as possible without blocking your align. It limits the angles they can sneak up on you at.

Smart bombs? Keep your ships 1km or so apart to minimize damage.

"But then I can't dump my ore into the Orca!!" Yes, you can. it's called a jet-can and a tractor beam. Orca pilots with skill have a 60km range with the tractor beam. pop the can, target with the orca and haul it in manually. This also keeps your Orca away from your hulks (see "Smart Bombs?" above).

Can-flippers? You jet-canned ore when someone was on d-scan or in the belt?

Ice Belts: use that frigate I was talking about, and make a bookmark that is 140km from the default belt warp in. On a point scale of 1 to 1000, it's only a couple points in your favor, but it's still more points in your favor.

You can't stop ganking completely, but you can minimize it.

I can't believe how many of the "buff Hulks!" threads are filled with people who openly admit that they watch TV, read a book, etc. while mining.
That's fine, but don't ***** about it when you get popped. Plead with CCP to change the mechanics in your favor? Sure, but I mostly agree with the OP. If you get ganked, it's very possible that you weren't paying attention.

People want mining to be more interactive. I do to. I'd like mining to be more PvE interactive, however, as the system is right now, it is a PvP interactive. I just like mining enough that I choose to play that "interactive" part of mining.

@OP (and a few others): I can see how the various advice in this thread would help someone mine in low-sec, which is something I'd like to do, but what about getting in and out of low-sec? Isn't it usually the gates where they pop the miners/freighters anyway?

If any of my suggestions are completely off base, please let me know and I'll edit them out. I am going on my experience, but I do not assume my methods of mining safely are perfect.

epilogue: I can't believe I found a thread in which a goon actually said something I agree with. wtf?