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Simple rebalance of Empire security ratings
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Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#1 - 2013-02-25 16:11:22 UTC

High security offers a wide variety of "advantages" and perks over Low Security. CONCORD, safer travel, no infrastructure burdens, etc. How do the Empires "pay" for this, in theory? Taxes. Then why is Low Sec, who gets a lot less infrastructure "advantages" pay the same taxes as high sec?

Either lower Low Sec Taxes, or preferably raise High Sec station taxes.

The market will feel the taxes (even a moderate doubling from 1% to 2%) will reduce inflation due to High Sec trading velocity, and it will promote the advantage of low security trade hubs even further. More dangerous? Sure? More valuable to struggle over? Yes. Low Sec = slightly improved.

We pay a very high tax for the safety of our current western world, as high as 20-30% of our income, on top of sales taxes, etc. Yet in EVE High Seccers barely pay even 1% on their taxes to do the same? Seems ridiculous.

Will it break the High Sec market? No way. It will just make all those greedy traders sit and look, "Man, if only we could have that space over there..." Greedy eyes.


Where I am.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2013-02-25 16:18:18 UTC
Your logic is sound which is why the bears will start throwing insults your way. Prepare your anus.
Ares Farway
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-02-25 16:21:13 UTC
SO I have to sit in a low sec station to install my region wise buy orders and have an alt collect em? Same safety for me once I am there, and Jump clones are gonna be my best friend then :)
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#4 - 2013-02-25 16:24:38 UTC
Ares Farway wrote:
SO I have to sit in a low sec station to install my region wise buy orders and have an alt collect em? Same safety for me once I am there, and Jump clones are gonna be my best friend then :)


Go for it. You'd still be promoting more Low Sec interaction than not. Also, no reason that sales tax can't be dependent on station being sold.

Where I am.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2013-02-25 16:24:58 UTC
Why not just move highsec to its own shard and leave low and nullsec as a hardcore PvP server?

At least then people will no longer feel compelled to post the same **** over and over again while the same people have over pages and pages the same old arguments with nothing constructive ever coming out of it.

This idiot puppet theater is playing for years now. I am getting tired of it.

It. Does. Nothing.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-02-25 16:26:15 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Greedy eyes.

exactly

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#7 - 2013-02-25 16:30:21 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Why not just move highsec to its own shard and leave low and nullsec as a hardcore PvP server?

At least then people will no longer feel compelled to post the same **** over and over again while the same people have over pages and pages the same old arguments with nothing constructive ever coming out of it.

This idiot puppet theater is playing for years now. I am getting tired of it.

It. Does. Nothing.


That'd be fine with me.

But it's not happening, so drop the Straw Mans and discuss the topic that is actually at hand.


Where I am.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#8 - 2013-02-25 16:37:09 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Why not just move highsec to its own shard and leave low and nullsec as a hardcore PvP server?

At least then people will no longer feel compelled to post the same **** over and over again while the same people have over pages and pages the same old arguments with nothing constructive ever coming out of it.

This idiot puppet theater is playing for years now. I am getting tired of it.

It. Does. Nothing.


That'd be fine with me.

But it's not happening, so drop the Straw Mans and discuss the topic that is actually at hand.



Nerfing highsec does not make lowsec a better place. Only when lowsec (and nullsec) become viable on their own terms, balancing them with highsec becomes feasible. Until then, it's just a squabbling over which piece of **** gets to be on the top of the pile.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#9 - 2013-02-25 16:41:49 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Why not just move highsec to its own shard and leave low and nullsec as a hardcore PvP server?

At least then people will no longer feel compelled to post the same **** over and over again while the same people have over pages and pages the same old arguments with nothing constructive ever coming out of it.

This idiot puppet theater is playing for years now. I am getting tired of it.

It. Does. Nothing.


non-high sec does not mean hardcore PVP in Eve. There are plenty of noob bears in all parts of eve.

This idiot puppet theater is playing for years now. I am getting tired of it.
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#10 - 2013-02-25 16:43:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Onomerous
Abrazzar wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Why not just move highsec to its own shard and leave low and nullsec as a hardcore PvP server?

At least then people will no longer feel compelled to post the same **** over and over again while the same people have over pages and pages the same old arguments with nothing constructive ever coming out of it.

This idiot puppet theater is playing for years now. I am getting tired of it.

It. Does. Nothing.


That'd be fine with me.

But it's not happening, so drop the Straw Mans and discuss the topic that is actually at hand.



Nerfing highsec does not make lowsec a better place. Only when lowsec (and nullsec) become viable on their own terms, balancing them with highsec becomes feasible. Until then, it's just a squabbling over which piece of **** gets to be on the top of the pile.


The problem isn't hi-sec... it's that low sec and null sec suck more. Fix what sucks rather than destroy what doesn't suck as much. (for god sake, do not touch WH since it is easily the best part of Eve).
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2013-02-25 16:47:07 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:

Nerfing highsec does not make lowsec a better place. Only when lowsec (and nullsec) become viable on their own terms, balancing them with highsec becomes feasible. Until then, it's just a squabbling over which piece of **** gets to be on the top of the pile.


It must be a nerf because simply buffing isk income from null and low sec areas leads to runaway inflation which is very bad for the game.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-02-25 16:49:45 UTC
it doesn't matter if tax is lower, no one in their right mind is going to trade in low over high.

forums.  serious business.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#13 - 2013-02-25 16:51:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
What "sucks" is that High Sec has many advantages with no penalties.

Raising taxes to, let's say, 2% is hardly breaking high sec. The Accounting Skill and Corporate standings can lower the taxes back down to 1% very easily. You're basically getting a .5% increase to taxes really for professional traders. Does it add up though? Yes.

There has to be a perception of COST for high sec. And there is no "COST" to living in high sec.

This is hardly a nerf, this is a rebalancing.

If you don't see the difference, let's put it this way.

ADVANTAGES
On the one side you have High Sec :
CONCORD protection, Gate Guns, Easy MIssions, Easy Incursions, Easy Trading, Easy hauling, stress free.

COSTS : ... 1% taxes?

On the other side you have Low Sec :
Gate guns, Ability to shoot who you want when you want.

COSTS : Your Ship, Your time, your safety, 1% taxes


Let's see. Quick rebalance...

High Sec COSTS : 2% tax rate.

Gee, that feels a lot more balanced, doesn't it?

Where I am.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#14 - 2013-02-25 16:53:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:

Nerfing highsec does not make lowsec a better place. Only when lowsec (and nullsec) become viable on their own terms, balancing them with highsec becomes feasible. Until then, it's just a squabbling over which piece of **** gets to be on the top of the pile.


It must be a nerf because simply buffing isk income from null and low sec areas leads to runaway inflation which is very bad for the game.

And without a concept of what to buff and how much ISK gets created, the nerf of highsec becomes pointless.

First, agree on how low and null sec gets buffed, then evaluate the effect on inflation and then nerf inflation as appropriate. All this partisanship makes people forget (or ignore) the big picture. Us versus them has no place in good game design.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#15 - 2013-02-25 17:16:32 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:

Nerfing highsec does not make lowsec a better place. Only when lowsec (and nullsec) become viable on their own terms, balancing them with highsec becomes feasible. Until then, it's just a squabbling over which piece of **** gets to be on the top of the pile.


It must be a nerf because simply buffing isk income from null and low sec areas leads to runaway inflation which is very bad for the game.

And without a concept of what to buff and how much ISK gets created, the nerf of highsec becomes pointless.

First, agree on how low and null sec gets buffed, then evaluate the effect on inflation and then nerf inflation as appropriate. All this partisanship makes people forget (or ignore) the big picture. Us versus them has no place in good game design.



More Straw Men.

You're not discussing the actual topic. You're just flailing around saying we have a position we don't have in this discussion. Talk about how 2% tax rates would be bad for high sec.



Where I am.
Sorlac
Cosmos Industrial
Cosmos Origins
#16 - 2013-02-25 17:22:51 UTC
With less people operating in Low-Sec they would need to charge those living there the same or possibly a larger tax so as to cover the cost of the reduced infrastructure. As it is chances are very likely that portions of the high-sec taxes wre having to be used to cover low-sec costs as it is.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-02-25 17:25:50 UTC
do you really think people are going to swap to hauling by jump freighter for a measly 1% tax advantage?

forums.  serious business.
Aedh Phelan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-02-25 17:42:22 UTC
Seems to me the owner operators of low and null sec stations would want their cut. Profit motivated. It is listed as a tax but I see it more as an access fee.

Hi sec stations tax access ideally to provide the protective (I mean reactive) infrastructure such as CONCORD.

Now, more in line with your thought however; what doesn't seem to change and I would expect it to from a supply versus demand perspective is how much it costs to install a job or the cost per hour. If the installations were wildly popular and constantly used shouldn't they cost more to use? Wouldn't this apply to any level of security space? This is probably not a new thought but I always wondered why the costs were the same in a station with a three month wait and a station that always has slots available.

The coding to do it might already exist in the game based on how the price of seeded skill books, and the old station containers, changes in response to the number bought.

Sorry for wasting your time if this misses the mark.
RAP ACTION HERO
#19 - 2013-02-25 17:49:23 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Why not just move highsec to its own shard and leave low and nullsec as a hardcore PvP server?

At least then people will no longer feel compelled to post the same **** over and over again while the same people have over pages and pages the same old arguments with nothing constructive ever coming out of it.

This idiot puppet theater is playing for years now. I am getting tired of it.

It. Does. Nothing.

look at dat bear go oooooo

vitoc erryday
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-02-25 17:56:18 UTC
Ares Farway wrote:
SO I have to sit in a low sec station to install my region wise buy orders and have an alt collect em? Same safety for me once I am there, and Jump clones are gonna be my best friend then :)


Happens all the time in real life with tax havens. For example Ireland has a number of tech companies headquartered here to take advantage of the 12.5% corporation tax rate , and just funnel lots of their worldwide profits through.
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