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Karrier Kombat
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Mark Blema
#1 - 2013-02-24 00:58:34 UTC
I've recently acquired the skill for a carrier. I would like some help in preparing myself for the pvp that will happen (I look forward to this in fact). This carrier will be in a wormhole.... Which class, I do not know just yet as I am awaiting mentorship for hopefully people that would be intrigued by this prospect. Ideally it'll be a C4 or lower.... Ideally being the key word.

As of the posting of this I can only fly the minmitar carrier (I am we'll aware that the archon is better but I like the minmitar carrier for some odd reason.) I ask you to help. Because I would like to gank and surprise some would be T3 or cruiser gang.

I can say that in 4 days and change I could also fly the thanny but we'll come to that later>:)
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#2 - 2013-02-24 22:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Casidy
Well I hate to burst your bubble but carriers aren't made for open combat. Even a fully blinged out thanny which gets the dps bonus does about 1000 dps, less than a gank battleship. As far as ganking t3's, how do you plan on holding them down for the full minute or so it'll take to lock them when your max speed is like 80 and takes you a minute or two to reach it?
Carriers funcction on the battlefield as support ships; letting others refit in the middle of a fight, spitting out new ships from it's maint bay, resupplying ammo/fuel/whatever, repping, you get the idea.
Don't let that discourage you though, i say try it. Preferably somewhere close to me.

.
Konkel
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#3 - 2013-02-24 22:16:49 UTC
cat you **** dont be a big negative nancy.

jump it iinto Nisuwa whenever you do end up getting one and we'll be more than happy to show you the ropes.
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-24 22:22:08 UTC
Cat Casidy wrote:
Well I hate to burst your bubble but carriers aren't made for open combat. Even a fully blinged out thanny which gets the dps bonus does about 1000 dps, less than a gank battleship. As far as ganking t3's, how do you plan on holding them down for the full minute or so it'll take to lock them when your max speed is like 80 and takes you a minute or two to reach it?
Carriers funcction on the battlefield as support ships; letting others refit in the middle of a fight, spitting out new ships from it's maint bay, resupplying ammo/fuel/whatever, repping, you get the idea.
Don't let that discourage you though, i say try it. Preferably somewhere close to me.

Forget what this guy ever said.

Carriers are great tools.
Primarily as great big reppers which can solo keep fleets alive when outnumbered.

But more and more these days come the slowcats or boots or whatever you call them: big fleets of remote repping carriers with sentry drone on assist. Virtually unkillable for conventional fleets and with the assist and a fast locker the drones do tremendous amounts of damage, basically alphaing everything sub-capital.
The downside is that you need a big coalition behind you to back that kind of playstyle up.

In wormholes they're often the backbone of your fleet, once/if the carrier goes down the battle is done. If the carrier survives the day is won.

Don't underestimate the amount of skills you need to train to fly it effectively though.

Carriers are great tools and multiple times/week I am that guy getting cynoed in on a gate to keep my buddies alive. Or going in a group of over a 100 caps far away from home driving of some hostiles.
Mark Blema
#5 - 2013-02-24 22:25:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Blema
As I feared....

So evidently carriers can't fit points.. That much I get. Also it won't be jumping as I said it'll live in wh space. Ideally it'll keep the t3 held with the prospect of him calling friends. Meanwhile I gank poor t3 with aforementioned point.

Possibilities include sentries with fast tracking... Maybe even god forbid it a corp fellow logged off waiting the me to get pointed so I can spit out an aforementioned insta-cane.

But hey! Thanks for offering to help come up with ideas to fight, ya know those carriers and their paper tanks couldn't last 1 min against the mighty tengu.


[edit] I forgot interdiction nullified t3... Yeah he may warp off.. And since that's the only thing that ever comes into wh space clearly I should biomass and uninstall.

F that. People will be coming to attack my carrier you guys.... What would be the best way you would defend against it besides NOT flying a carrier.
Mark Blema
#6 - 2013-02-24 22:27:22 UTC
Sjugar wrote:
Cat Casidy wrote:
Well I hate to burst your bubble but carriers aren't made for open combat. Even a fully blinged out thanny which gets the dps bonus does about 1000 dps, less than a gank battleship. As far as ganking t3's, how do you plan on holding them down for the full minute or so it'll take to lock them when your max speed is like 80 and takes you a minute or two to reach it?
Carriers funcction on the battlefield as support ships; letting others refit in the middle of a fight, spitting out new ships from it's maint bay, resupplying ammo/fuel/whatever, repping, you get the idea.
Don't let that discourage you though, i say try it. Preferably somewhere close to me.

Forget what this guy ever said.

Carriers are great tools.
Primarily as great big reppers which can solo keep fleets alive when outnumbered.

But more and more these days come the slowcats or boots or whatever you call them: big fleets of remote repping carriers with sentry drone on assist. Virtually unkillable for conventional fleets and with the assist and a fast locker the drones do tremendous amounts of damage, basically alphaing everything sub-capital.
The downside is that you need a big coalition behind you to back that kind of playstyle up.

In wormholes they're often the backbone of your fleet, once/if the carrier goes down the battle is done. If the carrier survives the day is won.

Don't underestimate the amount of skills you need to train to fly it effectively though.

Carriers are great tools and multiple times/week I am that guy getting cynoed in on a gate to keep my buddies alive. Or going in a group of over a 100 caps far away from home driving of some hostiles.



Teach me your ways....
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-02-24 22:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sjugar
Mark Blema wrote:
As I feared....

So evidently carriers can't fit points.. That much I get. Also it won't be jumping as I said it'll live in wh space. Ideally it'll keep the t3 held with the prospect of him calling friends. Meanwhile I gank poor t3 with aforementioned point.

Possibilities include sentries with fast tracking... Maybe even god forbid it a corp fellow logged off waiting the me to get pointed so I can spit out an aforementioned insta-cane.

But hey! Thanks for offering to help come up with ideas to fight, ya know those carriers and their paper tanks couldn't last 1 min against the mighty tengu.


Well a carrier can fit a point. I always carry one in my cargo and it came in handy now and then. But most ships can just fly away from you if you point them because they're faster.

It's just, that a carrier is not really a soloboat. You use it to help your buddies in fleet.
Mark Blema wrote:

Teach me your ways....

Make sure you have enough isk for a replacement carrier.

Also: if you want a carrier in a C4 it has to be built there and can never come out. C5 you can jump into through a wormhole.
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#8 - 2013-02-24 22:30:54 UTC
Yeah Sjugar I wasn't saying what you described isn't valid, I was referring to the OP wanting to solo gank t3 's with a carrier. And OP they can fit points.

.
Mark Blema
#9 - 2013-02-24 22:34:41 UTC
I want to fight with the carrier. Perhaps I won't EVER get a t3, oh well... But they aren't the only boats in eve just an example. As for solo fighting I need to last solo until I know a good fight is happening... Log in alt and fellow corpies.
Mark Blema
#10 - 2013-02-24 22:40:41 UTC
Sjugar wrote:
Mark Blema wrote:
As I feared....

So evidently carriers can't fit points.. That much I get. Also it won't be jumping as I said it'll live in wh space. Ideally it'll keep the t3 held with the prospect of him calling friends. Meanwhile I gank poor t3 with aforementioned point.

Possibilities include sentries with fast tracking... Maybe even god forbid it a corp fellow logged off waiting the me to get pointed so I can spit out an aforementioned insta-cane.

But hey! Thanks for offering to help come up with ideas to fight, ya know those carriers and their paper tanks couldn't last 1 min against the mighty tengu.


Well a carrier can fit a point. I always carry one in my cargo and it came in handy now and then. But most ships can just fly away from you if you point them because they're faster.

It's just, that a carrier is not really a soloboat. You use it to help your buddies in fleet.
Mark Blema wrote:

Teach me your ways....

Make sure you have enough isk for a replacement carrier.

Also: if you want a carrier in a C4 it has to be built there and can never come out. C5 you can jump into through a wormhole.



I know it has to be built in there.... That's the point.... No escalation. Yes dozen plus battleships but honestly how fast to get them there.... Will the t3 stay and keep me pointed while I am chewing him up with a sentries and a insta cane is melting him... Or will he disengage and I warp to a Death Star... See my point?
Salicaz
Verrimus Caelum
#11 - 2013-02-24 23:34:30 UTC
Mark Blema wrote:
Sjugar wrote:
Mark Blema wrote:
As I feared....

So evidently carriers can't fit points.. That much I get. Also it won't be jumping as I said it'll live in wh space. Ideally it'll keep the t3 held with the prospect of him calling friends. Meanwhile I gank poor t3 with aforementioned point.

Possibilities include sentries with fast tracking... Maybe even god forbid it a corp fellow logged off waiting the me to get pointed so I can spit out an aforementioned insta-cane.

But hey! Thanks for offering to help come up with ideas to fight, ya know those carriers and their paper tanks couldn't last 1 min against the mighty tengu.


Well a carrier can fit a point. I always carry one in my cargo and it came in handy now and then. But most ships can just fly away from you if you point them because they're faster.

It's just, that a carrier is not really a soloboat. You use it to help your buddies in fleet.
Mark Blema wrote:

Teach me your ways....

Make sure you have enough isk for a replacement carrier.

Also: if you want a carrier in a C4 it has to be built there and can never come out. C5 you can jump into through a wormhole.



I know it has to be built in there.... That's the point.... No escalation. Yes dozen plus battleships but honestly how fast to get them there.... Will the t3 stay and keep me pointed while I am chewing him up with a sentries and a insta cane is melting him... Or will he disengage and I warp to a Death Star... See my point?



I think you grossly over estimate what a carriers sentries can do. Also, T3 will just kill them.
subtle turtle
Doozer Mining Cartel
#12 - 2013-02-24 23:44:21 UTC  |  Edited by: subtle turtle
I like this thread, because I see in it the probable outcome of a hilarious killmail.

OP, you can bait with your carrier in your C4 by running sites with it. Remember, deadspace, faction and officer mods may be expensive, but that extra edge they give you may just make the difference!
Mark Blema
#13 - 2013-02-24 23:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Blema
subtle turtle wrote:
I like this thread, because I see in the the probable outcome of a hilarious killmail.

OP, you can bait with your carrier in your C4 by running sites with it. Remember, deadspace, faction and officer mods may be expensive, but that extra edge they give you may just make the difference!



Right you keep thinking that... Btw where about are you flying with thos mods...

Anyway

On paper it shows 10 guardes doing something close to 1700 dps, with 3x dda. So they start to pop... I can carry to many to number.

Also remember I need to wait, what, 1 1/2 mins for corp mate who is waiting on log in screen.

I mean seriously the thing is meant to assist in combat. What's wrong with a bit tanking for a bit.

I guess I should just biomass and uninstall huh? How dare I think of something then ask for help?
Salicaz
Verrimus Caelum
#14 - 2013-02-25 06:30:34 UTC
Mark Blema wrote:
subtle turtle wrote:
I like this thread, because I see in the the probable outcome of a hilarious killmail.

OP, you can bait with your carrier in your C4 by running sites with it. Remember, deadspace, faction and officer mods may be expensive, but that extra edge they give you may just make the difference!



Right you keep thinking that... Btw where about are you flying with thos mods...

Anyway

On paper it shows 10 guardes doing something close to 1700 dps, with 3x dda. So they start to pop... I can carry to many to number.

Also remember I need to wait, what, 1 1/2 mins for corp mate who is waiting on log in screen.

I mean seriously the thing is meant to assist in combat. What's wrong with a bit tanking for a bit.

I guess I should just biomass and uninstall huh? How dare I think of something then ask for help?


No. You just wanted to use the wrong tool for the job. When people explained how the tool works you ignored them and continue to believe it can work.

By all means, try it. But this carrier will die doing what you want to do.
Mark Blema
#15 - 2013-02-25 14:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Blema
Capital class star ships are able to PvP. RnK does it quite well. On the much smaller scale that is W-space combat I see no reason a carrier cannot be used. We are talking about a star ship that can easily field more than 1 million EHP with the ability to do 1k DPS conservatively. With proper planning and perhaps some practice on sisi I see no reason why it can't be looked at like an over grown Dominix.

However far to many people would rather just as soon say 'Nope F it all can't happen yer dum, op is ghey.' If you want to do with the tool comparison, I see this as a Vice grips to pliers comparison. The way you guys think it may as well be 20 lb sledge hammer to 1 hair artiest brush on a skill 4 model. Heck with your thought process and reasoning why does ccp even have cap ships. Why even get out of bed in the morning?

My point, if you will allow me to clarify, is simply this. IF you were in a carrier in w-space how best would you defend against would be raiders. Clearly you've all chosen the, "I don't defend against it cause I don't even get out of bed in the morning" option. I see that now. None of you are up to the challenge of this exercise. I also greatly appericate the distinct lack of free thinking you've shown. Makes me wonder if you'll even have the ability to even look in a C4 having jumped already into 1 w-space system.

TL;DR aside from the one guy, thanks for nothing to the rest of you.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#16 - 2013-02-25 15:52:14 UTC
@ Mark.

I'm not being negative, but be assured you are not the first person to have the *solo cap ship concept*.

Your ship will only be strong if it is in Triage mode. When you Triage, you cannot launch drones, so you get 1 or the other, not both.
Fighters don't hit small ships very well, and Sentries have zero transversal, so they die easy.

So this is what happens.
A small crew finds your WH. They fly in, get attacked, maybe lose a ship but probly not, and all warp off.
Some pilot will say"omg! was he solo?"
Some other pilot will say "go grab a neut ship and a couple of Scimitars".
And that will be the end of your Carrier.


Now if you weren't talking solo, then yes, cap ships/carriers have a place in many fleets.

Try and remember, when you use RnK as an example. They have massive amounts of experience, and not 1 of them would launch a solo carrier and expect to live.
subtle turtle
Doozer Mining Cartel
#17 - 2013-02-25 15:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: subtle turtle
Op, you just had a member of WBR tell you that the way you are planning to use your carrier won't work. If you think they don't know what they are doing with capitals, please check their kills to be reeducated.

As far as knowing how capitals in wormholes work, for a long time in my eve career, I was part of a wormhole raiding alliance. Carriers in wormholes made you a target. If we saw you out in a carrier, we wouldn't pounce, we would leave a scanner in your wormhole, learn your habits, what support you have, then build a counter fleet. By the time the bubbles went up, it was to late for you. Your EHP and DPS were irrelevant.

A carrier is not "a big Dominix,"as you incorrectly state. It is more of a big guardian, if anything. You build your fleet around it, it can be a lynchpin part, but it's role is that of support, not DPS. You bring a couple sub cap friends? Good, but unless you are good, and very sneaky, your opponent likely knows this.

Carriers have a very real place in combat, including wh combat, but it is NOT the powerhouse dps brick you think it is. That will get you killed every time.
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#18 - 2013-02-25 16:08:29 UTC
The idea of using a carrier for small gang stuff really appeals to me. I just live in an area where its pants on head ********. Too easy to bat-phone the corps with bored cap pilots.

The image is cool, small gang engages larger gang... starts to go to **** and BAM friendly carrier jumps in to save it's friends. tip the balance then jump out.

The reality is carrier jumps in, targets shout out on intel carrier jumped in. They point it, carrier now can't jump away and friendly forces cant kill tackle quick enough to save carrier. Batphone forces arrive, 20 blap dreads from your friendly local blap dread corp. They set up siege, 5 minutes later they jump out having murdered your carrier.

Unless you have a force on the end of the batphone yourself that can take advantage of those 5 minutes and get some bigger guns in you are out of luck.
Mark Blema
#19 - 2013-02-25 19:01:52 UTC
Cool, rest assure I'll keep being afraid of cap ships. You've all done your job quite well. I will make sure to only fly 3x rep myrm in wh-space.

Actually scratch that. Can't live in WH space, for fear of cloaky campers. All joking aside I'll likely just stay in Hi sec and keep thinking about how uber ba a battleship will be in l4's

And now that I've said what you all know I think like. end of thread.
Salicaz
Verrimus Caelum
#20 - 2013-02-25 19:03:18 UTC
Mark Blema wrote:
Capital class star ships are able to PvP. RnK does it quite well. On the much smaller scale that is W-space combat I see no reason a carrier cannot be used. We are talking about a star ship that can easily field more than 1 million EHP with the ability to do 1k DPS conservatively. With proper planning and perhaps some practice on sisi I see no reason why it can't be looked at like an over grown Dominix.

However far to many people would rather just as soon say 'Nope F it all can't happen yer dum, op is ghey.' If you want to do with the tool comparison, I see this as a Vice grips to pliers comparison. The way you guys think it may as well be 20 lb sledge hammer to 1 hair artiest brush on a skill 4 model. Heck with your thought process and reasoning why does ccp even have cap ships. Why even get out of bed in the morning?

My point, if you will allow me to clarify, is simply this. IF you were in a carrier in w-space how best would you defend against would be raiders. Clearly you've all chosen the, "I don't defend against it cause I don't even get out of bed in the morning" option. I see that now. None of you are up to the challenge of this exercise. I also greatly appericate the distinct lack of free thinking you've shown. Makes me wonder if you'll even have the ability to even look in a C4 having jumped already into 1 w-space system.

TL;DR aside from the one guy, thanks for nothing to the rest of you.


I'm tempted to watch killboards for this, i really am.

I'm a tad confused. You ask for advice, Advice was given and you turned on those who gave it.

To be fair, most of the replies you received were fair, accurate and constructive. You replied like a ****. You remind me of someone who thinks "bigger is better" and I wait in anticipation at the lesson/loss mail you will get. Twisted
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