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CCP is not the God of EVE ... stop over buffnerfing

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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-02-25 01:22:03 UTC
Iminent Penance wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Hurricane nerfing is a Sin.

first off whats the point in buying different ships if they are all pretty much equal within a tier..... just because of the race we chose at the beginning of the game?

And why cant we in balancing terms simply respect eve for what it is (to an extent that still works of course) without god constantly changing epic things that where for years, into completely medicore soso bits of metal?

The epicness of now nerfed ships where what defined that part of eve ... ccp is constantly working to make eve flat in my opinion.

I find it really disturbing that eve is subject to constant buffing. I dont like ccp 'constantly' intervening with 'working' things because they kind of made eve what it was..... in a way if they want to be sincere in an artistic way then they have to respect an environments flaws as well as its strengths. This would need to be done in order to give eve credibility as a fictional but artisticly and immersively seen real world or universe. (in order to enjoy lord of the rings or alien, u have to believe its real for the duration of the film.

real world places also are not always perfectly balanced.

i agree this intervention makes sense yet it kinda makes eve a little less eve and a little more space simulation.

and i am sort of paying to play eve.... i mean.... it began as a place with hardly any rules... *small tear*

I honestly have to say that this is really turning me off eve.


If you want to fix this, do like goons, and get hired by ccp to break the game for yourself/your friends as *you* see it.

Otherwise GLHF convincing the company to give a damn about a single opinion, or logical suggestion.

Ever.

PS: you might have hope if you convince a few thousand people to go al queda all over jita, they seem to listen to whoever does that if done in large enough numbers


SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:

CCP play Jove, so in lore, they are LITERALLY the gods of ew eden, just an FYI, being the devs with explicit be-all-end-all in developmental decisions doesnt hurt either,.


shame


Jove aren't gods, according to eve lore, just the most advanced technological race who sepaerated after the eve gate wormhole collapse, and later whooped the ass of amarr when amarr stepped up to them.

"God" is a relative term, to the rest of the galaxy the capsuleers are a race of usntoppable demons who woudl lay waste to a planet with semi-automatic nuclear missile launchers because they are bored.

the Jove are way more advanced than that, they are able to alter the very nature of life with their genetic technologies, making them and their potential akin to a gods. (think the aliens from Prometheus, except less likely to die like a B**** when some random scrub flies a cruiser into them)
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-02-25 03:57:59 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Cyprus Black wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:

you are an incredible genius and you have just enlightened my world.

OH i forgot to say thank you. Thank you so very much.
Though the sarcasm is noted, you're welcome.

The pleasure was all mine in wiping away your misconceptions about the nerfs and buffs.


i think what you said before was stated about 3 times in this thread almost word for word.... are you someones clone by any chance?
Not a clone. Just stating the incredibly obvious. Something you seem to be missing over and over and over again. If everyone keeps telling you it's a bad idea, maybe you should reevaluate it. Failure to do so is an indication either your pride is blinding you from truth or you really are that dumb.

Either way it's not my problem since CCP also agrees it's dumb and won't change it.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#43 - 2013-02-25 05:57:00 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Cyprus Black wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:

you are an incredible genius and you have just enlightened my world.

OH i forgot to say thank you. Thank you so very much.
Though the sarcasm is noted, you're welcome.

The pleasure was all mine in wiping away your misconceptions about the nerfs and buffs.


i think what you said before was stated about 3 times in this thread almost word for word.... are you someones clone by any chance?
Not a clone. Just stating the incredibly obvious. Something you seem to be missing over and over and over again. If everyone keeps telling you it's a bad idea, maybe you should reevaluate it. Failure to do so is an indication either your pride is blinding you from truth or you really are that dumb.

Either way it's not my problem since CCP also agrees it's dumb and won't change it.


I understand... new game content and innovation.... bad idea... check !

Legba
Sigras
Conglomo
#44 - 2013-02-25 07:19:57 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I understand... new game content and innovation.... bad idea... check !

no, degrading content by making something else clearly better . . . bad idea . . . check!
Sigras
Conglomo
#45 - 2013-02-25 07:27:35 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Hurricane nerfing is a Sin.

first off whats the point in buying different ships if they are all pretty much equal within a tier..... just because of the race we chose at the beginning of the game?

Have you ever heard of the concept of "different but balanced" because this is exactly what you're describing, and its what most game designers strive for.

SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
And why cant we in balancing terms simply respect eve for what it is (to an extent that still works of course) without god constantly changing epic things that where for years, into completely medicore soso bits of metal?

The epicness of now nerfed ships where[SIC] what defined that part of eve ... ccp is constantly working to make eve flat in my opinion.

This is a good thing; theyre adding MORE content to the game . . . Lets be honest, for the last year the ferox and prophecy might as well not even existed.

Every single ship in the game should be competitive, if that isnt the case then the ones that arent competitive are broken and need to be fixed.

SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I find it really disturbing that eve is subject to constant buffing. I dont like ccp 'constantly' intervening with 'working' things because they kind of made eve what it was..... in a way if they want to be sincere in an artistic way then they have to respect an environments flaws as well as its strengths. This would need to be done in order to give eve credibility as a fictional but artisticly and immersively seen real world or universe. (in order to enjoy lord of the rings or alien, u have to believe its real for the duration of the film.

I agree, CCP shouldnt change working things . . . the problem is that battlecruisers were not "working things"

If X is clearly better than Y in every way to the point that nobody ever uses Y then Y is broken and needs to be fixed. In this case Y is every non-drake non-hurricane battlecruiser.

SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I honestly have to say that this is really turning me off eve.

Honestly if your idea of good game design is to have totally unbalanced things and totally useless ships then new eden is better off without your input anyway.
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#46 - 2013-02-25 07:30:51 UTC
Sigras wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Hurricane nerfing is a Sin.

first off whats the point in buying different ships if they are all pretty much equal within a tier..... just because of the race we chose at the beginning of the game?

Have you ever heard of the concept of "different but balanced" because this is exactly what you're describing, and its what most game designers strive for.

SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
And why cant we in balancing terms simply respect eve for what it is (to an extent that still works of course) without god constantly changing epic things that where for years, into completely medicore soso bits of metal?

The epicness of now nerfed ships where[SIC] what defined that part of eve ... ccp is constantly working to make eve flat in my opinion.

This is a good thing; theyre adding MORE content to the game . . . Lets be honest, for the last year the ferox and prophecy might as well not even existed.

Every single ship in the game should be competitive, if that isnt the case then the ones that arent competitive are broken and need to be fixed.

SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I find it really disturbing that eve is subject to constant buffing. I dont like ccp 'constantly' intervening with 'working' things because they kind of made eve what it was..... in a way if they want to be sincere in an artistic way then they have to respect an environments flaws as well as its strengths. This would need to be done in order to give eve credibility as a fictional but artisticly and immersively seen real world or universe. (in order to enjoy lord of the rings or alien, u have to believe its real for the duration of the film.

I agree, CCP shouldnt change working things . . . the problem is that battlecruisers were not "working things"

If X is clearly better than Y in every way to the point that nobody ever uses Y then Y is broken and needs to be fixed. In this case Y is every non-drake non-hurricane battlecruiser.

SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I honestly have to say that this is really turning me off eve.

Honestly if your idea of good game design is to have totally unbalanced things and totally useless ships then new eden is better off without your input anyway.


;)

Legba
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#47 - 2013-02-25 08:11:11 UTC
remember people they are only rebalanceing t1 ships first. then t2 (hopfully) and then maybe introduction of tech 2 cap ships.
and then probably pirate/navy ship buffs and BC class ships.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#48 - 2013-02-25 08:13:24 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Hurricane nerfing is a Sin.

first off whats the point in buying different ships if they are all pretty much equal within a tier..... just because of the race we chose at the beginning of the game?

And why cant we in balancing terms simply respect eve for what it is (to an extent that still works of course) without god constantly changing epic things that where for years, into completely medicore soso bits of metal?

The epicness of now nerfed ships where what defined that part of eve ... ccp is constantly working to make eve flat in my opinion.

I find it really disturbing that eve is subject to constant buffing. I dont like ccp 'constantly' intervening with 'working' things because they kind of made eve what it was..... in a way if they want to be sincere in an artistic way then they have to respect an environments flaws as well as its strengths. This would need to be done in order to give eve credibility as a fictional but artisticly and immersively seen real world or universe. (in order to enjoy lord of the rings or alien, u have to believe its real for the duration of the film.

real world places also are not always perfectly balanced.

i agree this intervention makes sense yet it kinda makes eve a little less eve and a little more space simulation.

and i am sort of paying to play eve.... i mean.... it began as a place with hardly any rules... *small tear*

I honestly have to say that this is really turning me off eve.

CCP play Jove, so in lore, they are LITERALLY the gods of ew eden, just an FYI, being the devs with explicit be-all-end-all in developmental decisions doesnt hurt either,.


I know they are in avery superficial and simplistic way :) but you also do know what im implying on dont you? :)

Legba
Sigras
Conglomo
#49 - 2013-02-25 09:09:44 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Sigras wrote:

Have you ever heard of the concept of "different but balanced" because this is exactly what you're describing, and its what most game designers strive for.

SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
And why cant we in balancing terms simply respect eve for what it is (to an extent that still works of course) without god constantly changing epic things that where for years, into completely medicore soso bits of metal?

The epicness of now nerfed ships where[SIC] what defined that part of eve ... ccp is constantly working to make eve flat in my opinion.

This is a good thing; theyre adding MORE content to the game . . . Lets be honest, for the last year the ferox and prophecy might as well not even existed.

Every single ship in the game should be competitive, if that isnt the case then the ones that arent competitive are broken and need to be fixed.

SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I find it really disturbing that eve is subject to constant buffing. I dont like ccp 'constantly' intervening with 'working' things because they kind of made eve what it was..... in a way if they want to be sincere in an artistic way then they have to respect an environments flaws as well as its strengths. This would need to be done in order to give eve credibility as a fictional but artisticly and immersively seen real world or universe. (in order to enjoy lord of the rings or alien, u have to believe its real for the duration of the film.

I agree, CCP shouldnt change working things . . . the problem is that battlecruisers were not "working things"

If X is clearly better than Y in every way to the point that nobody ever uses Y then Y is broken and needs to be fixed. In this case Y is every non-drake non-hurricane battlecruiser.

SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
I honestly have to say that this is really turning me off eve.

Honestly if your idea of good game design is to have totally unbalanced things and totally useless ships then new eden is better off without your input anyway.

;)

Ill take that as "you know im right and are just too stubborn to admit it"

its ok, happens all the time

;)
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#50 - 2013-02-25 12:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
Sigras wrote:

Ill take that as "you know im right and are just too stubborn to admit it"

its ok, happens all the time

;)


no im actualy saying you are right but im also implying that i actually mean something totally different with op and im wondering if you know what and your just trolling.... but if not thats ok.

Legba
Sigras
Conglomo
#51 - 2013-02-26 07:35:15 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Sigras wrote:

Ill take that as "you know im right and are just too stubborn to admit it"

its ok, happens all the time

;)


no im actualy saying you are right but im also implying that i actually mean something totally different with op and im wondering if you know what and your just trolling.... but if not thats ok.

perhaps you should enlighten the rest of the class . . .
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#52 - 2013-02-26 07:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
Sigras wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Sigras wrote:

Ill take that as "you know im right and are just too stubborn to admit it"

its ok, happens all the time

;)


no im actualy saying you are right but im also implying that i actually mean something totally different with op and im wondering if you know what and your just trolling.... but if not thats ok.

perhaps you should enlighten the rest of the class . . .


well it says it in op ... im talking about the effects of the changes on roleplaying atmosphere, environmental credibility and immersiveness. aka the effect constant changes having when they are implemented into the game without backing of the environment, lore and character. (i dont think that in a space age races would develop tech for many years to remove a highslot off a ship or to lower its specs) as one example of many... im saying that eve needs to implement these things more carefully and intelligently or leave things as they are... but apparently they dont care and treat it like a schematical game... so in a sense you always know you are playing a board game..

Legba
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#53 - 2013-02-26 08:02:53 UTC
Related, but unrelated.

Why does everyone insist on saying the drake was nerfed by losing a launcher hardpoint? If your BC skill is trained at all past 3 (which, come on, it should be if you actually fly BCs anything resembling seriously) you either see no change in DPS or an increase in DPS. True that the bonus is when using kinetic missiles, but people who PvE in areas where kinetic is unfavorable don't generally fly drakes anyway and do types other than kinetic get used in PvP?
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#54 - 2013-02-26 08:06:12 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Related, but unrelated.

Why does everyone insist on saying the drake was nerfed by losing a launcher hardpoint? If your BC skill is trained at all past 3 (which, come on, it should be if you actually fly BCs anything resembling seriously) you either see no change in DPS or an increase in DPS. True that the bonus is when using kinetic missiles, but people who PvE in areas where kinetic is unfavorable don't generally fly drakes anyway and do types other than kinetic get used in PvP?


its all abot cane here

Legba
Sigras
Conglomo
#55 - 2013-02-26 08:25:10 UTC
game play > RP experience

How terrible would it be if Blizzard decided that the infestor was a unit that had too much lore surrounding it to ever change or nerf. It had become a legend in StarCraft. Does that make it ok to leave a totally broken unit in the game that was ruining game play?

I understand the love for RP, and I always try to come up with RP ways to correct perceived issues in games, but when that doesnt work, a game designer should error on the side of game play every time.

A game can be great with little to no backstory, lore, or immersion as long as the game play is great:
TF2
Gary's Mod
Unreal Tournament
Natural Selection II
Bejeweled
Stratego
Risk


Its nearly impossible for the reverse to be true . . . besides, this isnt even my biggest issue with the RP in eve. The biggest immersion breaking thing for me is that ships seem to have a top speed and dont react as they actually would in space . . .
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#56 - 2013-02-26 08:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
Sigras wrote:
game play > RP experience

How terrible would it be if Blizzard decided that the infestor was a unit that had too much lore surrounding it to ever change or nerf. It had become a legend in StarCraft. Does that make it ok to leave a totally broken unit in the game that was ruining game play?

I understand the love for RP, and I always try to come up with RP ways to correct perceived issues in games, but when that doesnt work, a game designer should error on the side of game play every time.

A game can be great with little to no backstory, lore, or immersion as long as the game play is great:
TF2
Gary's Mod
Unreal Tournament
Natural Selection II
Bejeweled
Stratego
Risk


Its nearly impossible for the reverse to be true . . . besides, this isnt even my biggest issue with the RP in eve. The biggest immersion breaking thing for me is that ships seem to have a top speed and dont react as they actually would in space . . .


I know im just talking about an ideal case... which is what i always strive for

also its not like eve was totally broken because the cane was a badass ship.... if u drive a lamborghini past a bunch of beetles of course all the beetle drivers will scream for a nerfing.

Legba
H2O Hairey
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-02-26 08:43:30 UTC
What if ccp wouldn't nerf anything but buff lesser used items instead?
People wouldn't whine about "they nerfed my best ship ever in eve...."
And items and ships would evolve step by step in better and bigger
eve projects including npc usage.
Why keep everything balanced out? Is it that bad that a buffed item is 10%
better as the old "best" item of that time. You can buff that item 1 or 2 years later.
Samuel Wess
Doomheim
#58 - 2013-02-26 08:49:43 UTC
A game formed from imbalanced things may be balanced , i believe all great games had
one creator that came with the ideea, the vision and there is nobody to fully understand it.
After that, regular people will take over and continue trough trial and error and will break
it at some point :)

Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#59 - 2013-02-26 09:06:33 UTC
Samuel Wess wrote:
A game formed from imbalanced things may be balanced , i believe all great games had
one creator that came with the ideea, the vision and there is nobody to fully understand it.
After that, regular people will take over and continue trough trial and error and will break
it at some point :)


you got it man.

Legba
Sigras
Conglomo
#60 - 2013-02-26 10:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
H2O Hairey wrote:
What if ccp wouldn't nerf anything but buff lesser used items instead?
People wouldn't whine about "they nerfed my best ship ever in eve...."
And items and ships would evolve step by step in better and bigger
eve projects including npc usage.
Why keep everything balanced out? Is it that bad that a buffed item is 10%
better as the old "best" item of that time. You can buff that item 1 or 2 years later.

two words man . . . power creep

actually what you want isnt power creep its power leap!

that would cause no end of game balance issues. Lets say one ship is totally overpowered when theyre all said and done with the re-balance, and every other ship is perfectly balanced. lets call the overpowered ship the harbinger (im not saying it is, just using it as an example)

Now instead of nerfing the harbinger, they would have to buff every other ship in the game in relation to the harbinger . . . wouldnt it be much simpler just to nerf the harbinger?