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Optimal Range Disruption
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Maximus Hashur
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-02-24 18:04:42 UTC
Does it affect missles and rockets?

Looked up...saw this F***ING clown dropping like a rock.  Woke up in Vylade wondering what just happened!!!
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#2 - 2013-02-24 18:15:03 UTC
No.

There was an idea to make them do that but it was shelved after a hundred million drakebears found out and the server room almost flooded with their tears.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2013-02-24 18:36:47 UTC
They will .. eventually.

Probably after a tweak to the missile damage formula as they are already hampered by speed/sig .. turrets are too of course but not to the same degree (can usually do some fancy flying to reduce transversal).
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2013-02-24 19:48:25 UTC
TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#5 - 2013-02-25 00:03:45 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too.



TDS are already a good form of ewar. I agree. OP? Well I fit more damage controls than TDs so are damage controls op? Its a hard question.

To use them effecitively you need to quickly adjust to the type of guns your opponent is using or it will be a worthless mod. Plus you need to be able to fit your ship so that you can somewhat dictate range. So they are not an Iwin button by anymeans.


I like the way tds are now. Fitting them greatly opens the envelope of ships you can fight and get a good fight out of.

But yes having them effect missiles would be too much. Plus it makes no sense and dumbs the game down.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-02-25 00:50:02 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too.



TDS are already a good form of ewar. I agree. OP? Well I fit more damage controls than TDs so are damage controls op? Its a hard question.

To use them effecitively you need to quickly adjust to the type of guns your opponent is using or it will be a worthless mod. Plus you need to be able to fit your ship so that you can somewhat dictate range. So they are not an Iwin button by anymeans.


I like the way tds are now. Fitting them greatly opens the envelope of ships you can fight and get a good fight out of.

But yes having them effect missiles would be too much. Plus it makes no sense and dumbs the game down.


I mean unbonused td's are op.

50%+ reduction to range on an unbonused ship? Should be 30

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#7 - 2013-02-25 02:28:22 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too.



TDS are already a good form of ewar. I agree. OP? Well I fit more damage controls than TDs so are damage controls op? Its a hard question.

To use them effecitively you need to quickly adjust to the type of guns your opponent is using or it will be a worthless mod. Plus you need to be able to fit your ship so that you can somewhat dictate range. So they are not an Iwin button by anymeans.


I like the way tds are now. Fitting them greatly opens the envelope of ships you can fight and get a good fight out of.

But yes having them effect missiles would be too much. Plus it makes no sense and dumbs the game down.


I mean unbonused td's are op.

50%+ reduction to range on an unbonused ship? Should be 30



Maybe, but I think that would make them pretty useless. Even now they are often useless if you cant dictate range. They are often effective now because of what people are fitting to their ships.

If they become more common I expect people to fit their ships different.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2013-02-25 03:29:02 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too.



TDS are already a good form of ewar. I agree. OP? Well I fit more damage controls than TDs so are damage controls op? Its a hard question.

To use them effecitively you need to quickly adjust to the type of guns your opponent is using or it will be a worthless mod. Plus you need to be able to fit your ship so that you can somewhat dictate range. So they are not an Iwin button by anymeans.


I like the way tds are now. Fitting them greatly opens the envelope of ships you can fight and get a good fight out of.

But yes having them effect missiles would be too much. Plus it makes no sense and dumbs the game down.


I mean unbonused td's are op.

50%+ reduction to range on an unbonused ship? Should be 30



Maybe, but I think that would make them pretty useless. Even now they are often useless if you cant dictate range. They are often effective now because of what people are fitting to their ships.

If they become more common I expect people to fit their ships different.




Is a single damp very useful on an unbonused ship? Unbonused ewar is generally more annoying than crippling unless there is more than one mod. TD's are the exception to that.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#9 - 2013-02-25 15:13:13 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
TD's are already OP as **** without them affecting missiles too.



TDS are already a good form of ewar. I agree. OP? Well I fit more damage controls than TDs so are damage controls op? Its a hard question.

To use them effecitively you need to quickly adjust to the type of guns your opponent is using or it will be a worthless mod. Plus you need to be able to fit your ship so that you can somewhat dictate range. So they are not an Iwin button by anymeans.


I like the way tds are now. Fitting them greatly opens the envelope of ships you can fight and get a good fight out of.

But yes having them effect missiles would be too much. Plus it makes no sense and dumbs the game down.


I mean unbonused td's are op.

50%+ reduction to range on an unbonused ship? Should be 30



Maybe, but I think that would make them pretty useless. Even now they are often useless if you cant dictate range. They are often effective now because of what people are fitting to their ships.

If they become more common I expect people to fit their ships different.




Is a single damp very useful on an unbonused ship? Unbonused ewar is generally more annoying than crippling unless there is more than one mod. TD's are the exception to that.



Webs are pretty effective. Even a scram can be effective. If somone decides to fly a double mse, mwd merlin with blasters then meeting a punisher with a scram and ab will likely be crippling experience. Like I said allot of people are setting themselves up for having problems with a td due to the fits they are using.

Dictating range is part of just about all small gang pvp. TDs just add another tool in how you can do that.

That said even I can see kiting condors everywhere. And I think that is in part due to their immunity to tds. But I think its mostly due to an already insane agility and speed combined with off grid boosting that allows these ships a huge margin to orbit outside scram/web range. If we want to talk about I win buttons I think we should start there and have a long way to go before we get to unbonused tds.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#10 - 2013-02-25 15:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Desiderya
TDs only work if you can control the range. As someone who enjoys using them I can say that they give you the edge, but they are also very often not overly useful unless you are all rolling out in kiting ships. Even TD'd destroyers are dangerous in web/scram range unless blaster/ac fit.
A balancing approach shouldn't, imho, reduce the efficiency but rather address the cap cost. Slapping a Sensor Damp on a small ship - especially kiting ones - is going to be causing cap problems. TDs don't.

Speaking of damps: Ironically that works well against Condors with their abysmal locking range. Try a condor with that. It's the troll anti-condor condor

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#11 - 2013-02-25 15:57:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Nexxala
TD's are quite OP as it is, anything that is 100% effective in a large percentage of situations is OP.

If they do this eventually, I hope it's a different module.

nom nom
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#12 - 2013-02-27 11:18:51 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
TD's are quite OP as it is, anything that is 100% effective in a large percentage of situations is OP.

If they do this eventually, I hope it's a different module.


This. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing mods (other then rigs) that would help project missiles out farther, or to allow them to move faster.

That being said, I don't oppose the idea of TD's for missiles. But it should be a different module, this way people should either have to carry a variety of them or know their opponent.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#13 - 2013-02-27 12:59:51 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
TD's are quite OP as it is, anything that is 100% effective in a large percentage of situations is OP.

If they do this eventually, I hope it's a different module.



diferent module or diferent script ... anyway not a bad idea ;)
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#14 - 2013-02-27 13:24:01 UTC
The problem with TD is basically that if they introduce TD for missiles they have also to introduce something like Tracking Computers etc. for missiles too. And those have a lot of problems:

  1. Let's assume they allow TD to reduce missile speed this would also mean that a tracking computer should be allowed to raise missile speed. As far as I remember CCP has massive problems with missiles going faster then 10.000 m/s. So scrap this idea.
  2. Let's assume they allow TD to reduce missile flight time... this would make it even much easier to outrun missiles than it is already possible. Furthermore, CCP just nerved heavy missile range because they felt them being overpowered, so Tracking Computer which raise missile flight time would just revert this again.
  3. Let's assume they allow TD to raise the missile explosion radius... this would on the othe side mean that tracking computer should be allowed to reduce it. Imagine heavies with explosion radius of 60m... they will be absolute frigate murder. Seems too overpowered.
  4. Finally lets assume they allows TD to reduce missile explosion speed... okay Tracking computers would to the opposite which should be not too bad. But for TD's this is really not very much use since large missiles do already weak damage to fast targets.


Conclusion... there seems to be a lot of work for CCP to find a solution for missile disruption without completely breaking them or completely risking missiles get overpowered by counter measures to missile disruption ("tracking computers").
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-02-27 14:19:18 UTC
than there is the point of design, missiles ships are more or less designed arround the fact they only have one Damage modifier option. now instead of BCU's they need to fit tracking computers and the like.
Ohishi
Apocalypse Reign
#16 - 2013-02-27 19:20:35 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
TD's are quite OP as it is, anything that is 100% effective in a large percentage of situations is OP.

If they do this eventually, I hope it's a different module.

Considering that TD have been this way since their inception, and then boosted when scripts came out, I doubt that we will see any nerf unless you have Falcon whine sized threads on the subject everyday.

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought.

Ujio Sendai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-03-13 13:27:44 UTC
I found this thread to be relevant to my question.
In regards to missles mentioned in the OP what is the best means to avoid them once a fight has started. If td doesn't work on them what would be the best evasion? Does a fast small orbit affect missle accuracy? From my limited experience it seems missles can deal with higher orbit speeds than many other weapons.

Please enlighten me space clones. I have a light, but know not the way.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2013-03-13 13:43:35 UTC
Ujio Sendai wrote:
I found this thread to be relevant to my question.
In regards to missles mentioned in the OP what is the best means to avoid them once a fight has started. If td doesn't work on them what would be the best evasion? Does a fast small orbit affect missle accuracy? From my limited experience it seems missles can deal with higher orbit speeds than many other weapons.

Please enlighten me space clones. I have a light, but know not the way.



Speed and sig radius effect missile damage applied.

Tight orbits will mean you go slower (so you take more damage) and it will mean your guns will miss for tracking.(so you apply less damage)

Generally when fighting a missile boat try give yourself as wide an orbit as you can without losing much dps due to range. Also I generally overheat my ab to further mitigate the damage.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#19 - 2013-03-13 14:50:47 UTC
Why should a mid slot module costing that many CPU not have a significant effect on the ennemy ship ? There is no reason to use a useless module, and affecting significantly the ennemy ship or your ship is the definition of useful. That's why there is no ECM outside of bonused ships : because they are useless without bonuses. And that's why SD are so rare : they are only useful in very specific situations.

EWAR provide deepness to the game because it allow to break the tank/dps/mobility scheeme. That's a good thing.
Dan Carter Murray
#20 - 2013-03-13 15:06:42 UTC
a single tracking enhancer should null the effect of an unbonused TD

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