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War Dodge Clarification Needed
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0Lona 0ltor
Adeptio Gloriae
#1 - 2013-02-24 17:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: 0Lona 0ltor
I'm about to submit a petition regarding a corp who's members drop and then rejoin corp during war. Is this an exploit I've read so many posts saying it is and so many saying it's not?

Why does CCP not simply lock corps when they are dec'd to prevent such exploits? or place a 7 day timer on leaving corp so the War Dec'r gets his war dec for the full 7 days.

Another option would be for CCP to charge ISK to move corporations to prevent people war dodging.


Support

This does really need adressed. A corp that is war dec'd should have a 7 day timer on leaving the corp or the war dec should follow players for the seven days who choose to bail. You pay the fee for 7 days and you should get those 7 days.

Can someone from CSM please support this or a future candidate put it forward, I'm looking at you James 315 as you'll get my vote. I'd like to see and hear people piping up about this at fan fest too please.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-02-24 17:30:16 UTC
well wars are against corps not characters so guess not. if they all quit the corp and tear down their structures then that works does it not?

forums.  serious business.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-02-24 17:30:28 UTC
I don't understand what part of this you're referring to. Does joining a corp at war after leaving it give you immunity or something? It seems to me that leaving corp and joining it again would just put these people back into the war, would it not?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#4 - 2013-02-24 17:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
It's not an exploit.

If people are leaving the corp you war decced en masse then mission accomplished, you won.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-02-24 17:37:20 UTC
0Lona 0ltor wrote:
I'm about to submit a petition regarding a corp who's members drop and then rejoin corp during war. Is this an exploit I've read so many posts saying it is and so many saying it's not?

Why does CCP not simply lock corps when they are dec'd to prevent such exploits? or place a 7 day timer on leaving corp so the War Dec'r gets his war dec for the full 7 days.

Another option would be for CCP to charge ISK to move corporations to prevent people war dodging.


You can only drop and rejoin if your the defender. As an aggressor you cannot rejoin for 7 days once you leave corp.

And no, it is not against the rules to leave corp and join it again. However it is when people are accepted in space and on grid with the target they are engaging.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Google Voices
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-02-24 18:01:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Google Voices
0Lona 0ltor wrote:
I'm about to submit a petition regarding a corp who's members drop and then rejoin corp during war. Is this an exploit I've read so many posts saying it is and so many saying it's not?

Why does CCP not simply lock corps when they are dec'd to prevent such exploits? or place a 7 day timer on leaving corp so the War Dec'r gets his war dec for the full 7 days.

Another option would be for CCP to charge ISK to move corporations to prevent people war dodging.




Wahh?

Posting in "i'm a real bad dude so I harass indys , and it's wrong that they can get away from me thread...."




Roll


Oh, and when did the bricks go full pansy?

"Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle."
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-02-24 18:38:36 UTC
Google Voices wrote:

Wahh?

Posting in "i'm a real bad dude so I harass indys , and it's wrong that they can get away from me thread...."




Roll


Oh, and when did the bricks go full pansy?


Quoting an "I'm an undeccable NPC alt keyboard warrior" post.

Dodixie > Hek
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-02-24 18:42:06 UTC
[http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wars

Quote:
A war declaration (war dec) is a formal state of war between two player corporations or alliances.


it's not there so players can grief other players.

forums.  serious business.
Google Voices
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-02-24 18:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Google Voices
ElQuirko wrote:
Google Voices wrote:

Wahh?

Posting in "i'm a real bad dude so I harass indys , and it's wrong that they can get away from me thread...."




Roll


Oh, and when did the bricks go full pansy?


Quoting an "I'm an undeccable NPC alt keyboard warrior" post.



More tears.....this thread is going places....Shocked


And, your welcome to dec my alt corp, but since I log in rarely, it's probably a waste of isk...Lol

"Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle."
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-02-24 18:55:50 UTC
Interesting side note:

What is a war far if not to cause your enemy grief? If you'll momentarily excuse the comparisons with real life for a second, weren't the Viet Cong trying to cause America grief to the point where they got what they wanted? Weren't the Allies trying to cause such stress on their opponent nations that they surrendered?

Now grief in the video game sense is against the rules here, but I don't think you're talking about that. I think you're talking about the fact that you dislike the actions taken by your opponents and how they effect you.

Unfortunately for you, this is a game in which people are allowed and even encouraged to effect their opponents in pretty much any way they desire.

If EVE Online were a planet, the very continents would be arranged to spell out the words 'Player Interaction'.

(At least until Greyscale releases his next Dev Blog

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-02-24 19:07:01 UTC
griefing in the sense that one single player can use this mechanic to intimidate another single player.

forums.  serious business.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#12 - 2013-02-24 19:08:07 UTC
There is no difference between a shell corp which folds because of a wardec and one that forms seconds afterwards and contains the same players. Or a corp with 20 members then when a wardec hits has 1 member and 19 "friends and allies", then when the wardec ends has a recruitment spree.

You're not fooling anyone, you're just abusing the fact that you can drop a form of non-consensual PVP at your whim, which is an exploit because there's nothing anyone can to do stop you.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#13 - 2013-02-24 19:09:30 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
griefing in the sense that one single player can use this mechanic to intimidate another single player.

You should get suicide ganking removed too then. And sending eve-mails, because someone might threaten you! Those scary EVE players, no one should be able to threaten another in highsec! Roll
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-02-24 19:22:21 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
griefing in the sense that one single player can use this mechanic to intimidate another single player.

You should get suicide ganking removed too then. And sending eve-mails, because someone might threaten you! Those scary EVE players, no one should be able to threaten another in highsec! Roll


er no. it is obviously not cool to be able to grief a player 24/7 for a week for only 50M ISK when you can locate them with clairvoyant accuracy.

a suicide gank is a one off kill with sec status consequences.

forums.  serious business.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-02-24 19:26:50 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
There is no difference between a shell corp which folds because of a wardec and one that forms seconds afterwards and contains the same players. Or a corp with 20 members then when a wardec hits has 1 member and 19 "friends and allies", then when the wardec ends has a recruitment spree.


Sounds like a game mechanics problem then. If an entity has no will to fight and no territory or assets to protect, of course it'll just surrender.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#16 - 2013-02-24 19:32:37 UTC
When you are wardecced there are things you can do to fight back, like hire mercenaries, find recruit PVPers to shoot them, make amends with the person griefing you, move to a lower security status space so they can't bother you as easily, or undock in a PVP ship and fight them yourself. You have many, many options to take if you are wardecced.

There is no option for someone who spends 50m to wardec you to fight you because you can just ditch the war at your leisure. The fact that there are no options available for that person means that it's an exploit.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#17 - 2013-02-24 19:40:37 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Sounds like a game mechanics problem then. If an entity has no will to fight and no territory or assets to protect, of course it'll just surrender.


You're right. Let's make surrender meaningful by locking players into their corp and the war unless they actually use the surrender feature in game (which requires the defender and the attacker to come to a mutual understanding) or the attacker stops paying their wardec (and if you're winning and can beat them, you can wardec them back and force them to surrender).

When you surrender by destroying your corp (and rebuilding it seconds later), you are surrendering while forcing upon others your own terms for surrender. That's not right.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-02-24 19:49:06 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
When you are wardecced there are things you can do to fight back, like hire mercenaries, find recruit PVPers to shoot them, make amends with the person griefing you, move to a lower security status space so they can't bother you as easily, or undock in a PVP ship and fight them yourself. You have many, many options to take if you are wardecced.

There is no option for someone who spends 50m to wardec you to fight you because you can just ditch the war at your leisure. The fact that there are no options available for that person means that it's an exploit.


The problem is that the 'person' wardeccing the other 'person' has no clue what a war is. If you want consensual highsec PvP then you can invite someone to a duel. if you use the war dec mechanic to do this then you may be disappointed, and that's all there is to it. a corp with no anchored assets has no reason to defend anything.

forums.  serious business.
Whitehound
#19 - 2013-02-24 20:02:50 UTC
It is like watching a dog hump a leg.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#20 - 2013-02-24 20:06:51 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:

The problem is that the 'person' wardeccing the other 'person' has no clue what a war is. If you want consensual highsec PvP then you can invite someone to a duel. if you use the war dec mechanic to do this then you may be disappointed, and that's all there is to it. a corp with no anchored assets has no reason to defend anything.
Wardecs are meant to be non-consensual. When you corrupt wardecs using corp hopping exploits you are fundamentally changing the way they were designed to be. Take away the exploit and they are fine the way they are.

A corp with no anchored assets has no reason to defend anything because the human resources the corp has are immune from the war if they or the corp chooses them to be. Take away the immunity and people suddenly have reasons to defend themselves.
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