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Why the new voting system CCP?

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Ai Shun
#41 - 2013-02-24 00:20:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

By December I expect to see :
Perfect refine no longer possible in high sec.
Superveld and superscordite in null sec destroying the value of high sec mining.
Incursion income reduced by 75%.
Mission income halved (on top of the devastation that occurred with the AI and TD changes in Dec.
T2 manufacturing removed from high sec
Manufacturing slots at high sec stations severely curtailed or completely removed. Not that it will matter much.


Awesome list of suggestions. Add in changing CONCORD so they are destructible; but swarm in larger numbers and you'd have a winning combination of changes on your hands that will push the game more towards active, player participation instead of apathetic, drone-like grinding.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
High sec, we all know, is not nearly organized enough to pull off getting even one person in the top position on the voting list of 4000 voters. Eve UNi has roughly 2000 potential votes, but not sure if they are even endorsing anyone since Kelduum is not running.


So you're saying because a group of players is too lazy / non-caring / otherwise uninvolved to get themselves together and fight for something they want those who can organise themselves should not get to vote the way they want to?

Get off your ass and actually try and get players together, maybe? See if you can pick up the 2000 vote block from EVE-Uni. Throw in RvB and you're probably there already. Heck, get the Wis on your side and you'll have a 100 votes all from him.

Of course, that would mean actually caring and doing something other than whine Lol

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Why CCP, are you moving to a voting system that caters to the massive voting blocs in null?


I've heard that before. Last CSM and the one before that if I recall. Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#42 - 2013-02-24 00:21:12 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
There's no issue.

Hi seccers don't vote CSM candidates nor spend their life pressing F5 on the EvE forums and posting brainwashed propaganda.

They just vote with their wallet and often times leave without a bang.

It's a fair system and the one that gives CCP the only true feedback to their decisions, much better than any CSM could ever dream to do.


Vaerah, you are ultimately correct.
I shut down all but this account in June in protest of soundwave's attack on datacores and incursions.

But I think of all the hours I have put into this hobby, and I boil with rage at the thought of these guys in null sec pulling off the ultimate grief of thousands of high sec players.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-02-24 00:22:14 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
There's no issue.

Hi seccers don't vote CSM candidates nor spend their life pressing F5 on the EvE forums and posting brainwashed propaganda.

They just vote with their wallet and often times leave without a bang.

It's a fair system and the one that gives CCP the only true feedback to their decisions, much better than any CSM could ever dream to do.


You come across as being very libertarian.


If you're trying to make a point with that statement, I'm really not seeing it. In any case, its not a completely wrong statement.. pretty much a well accepted business statement for the most part... although I'd call a lot of forum posts less brainwashed and more uncaring, lacking in attention to all the details, and really not the kind of statements you want to really base your judgement on entirely. The only sort of brainwashing I could maybe see are those who think that corp is the sum of who a person is and attack that rather than having a proper discussion.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#44 - 2013-02-24 00:22:20 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
There's no issue.

Hi seccers don't vote CSM candidates nor spend their life pressing F5 on the EvE forums and posting brainwashed propaganda.

They just vote with their wallet and often times leave without a bang.

It's a fair system and the one that gives CCP the only true feedback to their decisions, much better than any CSM could ever dream to do.


Vaerah, you are ultimately correct.
I shut down all but this account in June in protest of soundwave's attack on datacores and incursions.

But I think of all the hours I have put into this hobby, and I boil with rage at the thought of these guys in null sec pulling off the ultimate grief of thousands of high sec players.


lol, please just leave. You aren't helping at all.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#45 - 2013-02-24 00:35:24 UTC
He many of the suggestions you listed are quite good ideas. I mean c'mon. Why do pos refine worse than npc station?
So much for player created fun!.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#46 - 2013-02-24 00:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
There's no issue.

Hi seccers don't vote CSM candidates nor spend their life pressing F5 on the EvE forums and posting brainwashed propaganda.

They just vote with their wallet and often times leave without a bang.

It's a fair system and the one that gives CCP the only true feedback to their decisions, much better than any CSM could ever dream to do.


Vaerah, you are ultimately correct.
I shut down all but this account in June in protest of soundwave's attack on datacores and incursions.

But I think of all the hours I have put into this hobby, and I boil with rage at the thought of these guys in null sec pulling off the ultimate grief of thousands of high sec players.

And yet the data core mechanic is working just fine, as are Incursions, so exactly what did you accomplish?

Nothing, aside from making your unpopular stance appear even more so.

High sec players have exactly the same opportunities to influence things as null sec players. If they choose not to do so they have no one but themselves to blame.

The saving grace in all this is that the Null sec players that get elected tend to be more concerned with overall game balance than furthering their own ends.

Have they pointed out where there are awkward imbalances in the risk vs reward systems in EvE? Yes.
Did their proposed solutions involved nerfing certain aspects of High Sec? Yes.
Did their proposed solutions involve nerfing certain (extremely lucrative) aspects of Null Sec? Yes.

Anyone looking at the over all balance between the various area's of EvE can see that things are a bit too generic to function as intended. Each area of space needs their own unique strengths and weaknesses (including low sec by the way). To fix this there are going to have to be a series of buffs and nerfs to various types of game play in those area's, and someone's toes are going to get stepped on.

It is inevitable.

Those that want an over all better and more challenging game will accept this and adapt.
Those that only focus on their own personal agenda will throw tantrums.

I guess we'll see which side you come down on. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#47 - 2013-02-24 00:39:27 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Vaerah, you are ultimately correct.
I shut down all but this account in June in protest of soundwave's attack on datacores and incursions.

But I think of all the hours I have put into this hobby, and I boil with rage at the thought of these guys in null sec pulling off the ultimate grief of thousands of high sec players.


Years ago, before playing EvE, I learned the hard way a generalization of EvE's first law:

"Don't undock with something you cannot afford to lose".

What I learned is:

"Don't attach yourself to anything you cannot afford to lose".


Everything decays or changes or dies or expires, better to make peace with yourself about that thing you love, before you even commit to it.

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Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#48 - 2013-02-24 00:41:48 UTC
Ultimately, players who choose to quit the game in protest don't actually care about the game enough to work things out. They're just whiny little children who are going to throw a temper tantrum until they get everything they ever asked for.

The people who stick around and try to fix things democratically are adults who are willing to work and compromise in order to make the game better.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#49 - 2013-02-24 00:47:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I shut down all but this account in June in protest of soundwave's attack on datacores and incursions.
…and you shut down that account starting the new year in protest of something else. Except not, obviously. That kind of puts the other shut-downs in doubt as well.

So yeah, no. You've pulled the other one so many times even a centipede would have run out of legs by now.

Quote:
I boil with rage at the thought of these guys in null sec pulling off the ultimate grief of thousands of high sec players.
Maybe if you stopped raging and started thinking clearly instead, you'd notice that no-one is getting “griefed” by an improved game.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-02-24 00:52:59 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Ultimately, players who choose to quit the game in protest don't actually care about the game enough to work things out. They're just whiny little children who are going to throw a temper tantrum until they get everything they ever asked for.

The people who stick around and try to fix things democratically are adults who are willing to work and compromise in order to make the game better.


...that is quite literally the most ignorant statement I have ever seen in my entire gaming career. Voting with one's wallet is not a sign of immaturity. If someone isn't having fun, there is no reason they should have to keep throwing their money at something in hopes it gets better. Expecting someone to take anything you throw at them while still paying them just goes beyond absurdly silly. You don't have to agree with their reasons to quit, but people have every right to expect their money to go to something they enjoy when they are paying for entertainment. There is NO validity to any statement to the contrary. They are paying for entertainment. Entertainment. Something they enjoy. Why would you spend money on entertainment you don't enjoy? That's just foolhardy. If a change breaks their enjoyment, there is no reason their maturity should be questioned just because they pulled their money away rather than people insulting them just because some poor baby doesn't like their point of view. Get over yourself. Wanting to make a game great is one thing, but don't be absurd and think that people have to stick around in hopes that it will happen.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#51 - 2013-02-24 00:53:40 UTC
Dinsdale seems like the kind of guy who could cut off his own nose to spite his face.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#52 - 2013-02-24 00:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Tippia wrote:

Maybe if you stopped raging and started thinking clearly instead, you'd notice that no-one is getting “griefed” by an improved game.


Talk about subjectivity promoted to universally accepted truth.

I suppose the same argument could be brought up by those who want WiS. To them it'd improve the game a lot, but oddly enough the same who want the game improved seem to generally think it's not an improvement at all.

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Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#53 - 2013-02-24 01:00:04 UTC
This is getting way off topic, we were discussing the finer points of disenfranchising whole swathes of CCP customers.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2013-02-24 01:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Talk about subjectivity promoted to universally accepted truth.
Not particularly, no.
A move towards objective balance means an objectively improved game.

If you are getting “griefed” because the balance becomes better, you're doing something horribly horribly wrong and the game is probably better off without you…

Quote:
I suppose the same argument could be brought up by those who want WiS
No. WiS offers no balance adjustments. In fact, it offered nothing substantive at all, which is why it was put on the back-burner until they could figure out what it would be for.
Agent Eunoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-02-24 01:08:35 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

But I think of all the hours I have put into this hobby, and I boil with rage at the thought of these guys in null sec pulling off the ultimate grief of thousands of high sec players.

So... run for CSM or start actively working towards being a change agent.

Or, you could quit with this character and lose your voice. One account leaving the game isn't a big thing.

A few accounts leaving the game isn't a big thing either.

But, masses (read thousands) of accounts quitting the game will (and did) get noticed.

I just don't understand why people like you complain and whine about the "null sec" players having so much power. They are, basically, special interest groups who have organized and know how to use their organization.

If you want to compete with them then ORGANIZE as well. Or, you can go to the forums and write whiny posts that get you nowhere. The choice is your own. And when I say organize I mean -you- start organizing people. If you aren't interested in doing that then you have no place, at all, to complain or whine about 0.0 Alliances who did organize.

Cinematic HD EVE Movies: http://www.youtube.com/user/EveEunoli/
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#56 - 2013-02-24 01:10:38 UTC
Agent Eunoli wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

But I think of all the hours I have put into this hobby, and I boil with rage at the thought of these guys in null sec pulling off the ultimate grief of thousands of high sec players.

So... run for CSM or start actively working towards being a change agent.

Or, you could quit with this character and lose your voice. One account leaving the game isn't a big thing.

A few accounts leaving the game isn't a big thing either.

But, masses (read thousands) of accounts quitting the game will (and did) get noticed.

I just don't understand why people like you complain and whine about the "null sec" players having so much power. They are, basically, special interest groups who have organized and know how to use their organization.

If you want to compete with them then ORGANIZE as well. Or, you can go to the forums and write whiny posts that get you nowhere. The choice is your own. And when I say organize I mean -you- start organizing people. If you aren't interested in doing that then you have no place, at all, to complain or whine about 0.0 Alliances who did organize.


Or a hand full of them can quit after posting "I'm quitting" posts on the forums, whining about how it's not fair that certain groups are allowed to have a voice, while everyone with a brain giggles at them and asks for their stuff.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Tesal
#57 - 2013-02-24 01:22:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:


If you are getting “griefed” because the balance becomes better, you're doing something horribly horribly wrong and the game is probably better off without you…


Seriously. Nice troll.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-02-24 01:25:07 UTC
By new, do you mean years old?

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#59 - 2013-02-24 01:25:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Talk about subjectivity promoted to universally accepted truth.
Not particularly, no.
A move towards objective balance means an objectively improved game.

If you are getting “griefed” because the balance becomes better, you're doing something horribly horribly wrong and the game is probably better off without you…



The dynamic nature of MMOs makes sure there's never an objective balance (at t + 1 it will stop being balanced), nor those who code / change it can be objective and thus produce an objectively improved game.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#60 - 2013-02-24 01:27:16 UTC
Agent Eunoli wrote:

If you want to compete with them then ORGANIZE as well. Or, you can go to the forums and write whiny posts that get you nowhere. The choice is your own. And when I say organize I mean -you- start organizing people. If you aren't interested in doing that then you have no place, at all, to complain or whine about 0.0 Alliances who did organize.


Could you pretty please provide me a single reference of a MMO where the randoms self organized enough to defeat the "top server, organized guilds"?

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