Missions & Complexes

How many volleys to kill regular rat frig?

I've been meaning to take a re-look at the torp CNR variant after those changes, after a bit of EFT work, it ain't half bad.

[Raven Navy Issue, Torp Version]
Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Micro Jump Drive
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field

Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

• Standard T1 torp -> 216 exp rad/106.5 exp vel. This looks like it'll 1-2 volley std cruisers and BCs. Per volley is a massive 5992 raw dmg @ 5.5 sec reload(!!)
• As for frigates, assuming 40m sig with 180m/s orbit, the amount of effective dps (with painter assist) that is applied amounts to around 180dps ish (roughly 17% of your max dps). A full flight of T2 Hobgoblins does around 100 dps, so the torp does like 1.8x more dps compared to the drones. Useful as backup when/if the drones fail. (God, I do this often on my Golem vs elite frigates ... and the torps killed them faster than the drones would)

Only issue is the Javelin range which would probably reach around 40km in practice, so you need to be mission selective and swap prop mods when necessary.

Extra:
To give you some idea for comparison, MY torp Golem with 2 painters (@50%) active on the target will :
4-5 volley an elite frigate (std T1 ammo)
4-5 volley an elite cruiser (std T1 ammo)
1 volley a BC (T2 Rage)
3 volley a 1mil BS (T2 Rage - which is now actually usable after the change)
5 volley a 1mil BS (T2 Javelin - painters aren't really necessary)

Edit:
Corrected the torp dmg vs frigate. Wrong values was used and orbit vel for (Sansha) frigates was too high.
Modified the build to include a painter.

lol
I guess you missed the whole npc AI change. Good luck to your and your drones.

haven't had an issue so far. oh noes I have to pay a teeny bit of attention to my drones hp, call the whambulance! Okay so apparently one epic arc mission will kill your drones before you can react, but that is isolated enough it shouldn't matter for general mission discussion.

with t2 cruise, fury, 4 faction bcus, and 5% implants eft says 917 dps. add in 3 wardens and a drone damage amp and it goes up to 1083. I probably wouldn't use gardes often (too short range) but that will get up to 1138. Plus the DDA will help your hobs kill orbiting frigs faster, plus the faster you kill frigs the less time they have to switch to your drones. On my rattlesnake with 3 dda hobs catch up to a frig and one shot them.

nighthawk I probably wouldn't use right now, the HML nerf kicked it when it was already down. tengu has more range, dps, and is way faster.

500 lol. a raven navy issue with implants does 1876

hm... from perspective of mainly Tengu pilot:
HAM tengu with implants can push up to 950 dps (1000 more with top stuff), but range sucks, so you effective DPS will not be all that great. HM tengu is OK (cca 650-700 dps with furies), but since HM nerf I think that cruise raven or golem can compete with it quite well or even beat it dps wise. Personally I get very good results with dual tengu setup - one HAM for large stuff and things up close while HM one clears stuff that is further away, but am still not 100% sure it perform better then dual HM tengu setup.
Cruise CNR has 'unlimited' range and paper dps bit over HM tengu, but damage application is worse (but you have drones), but you will need quite expensive setup to crank enough tank on it to solo everything without being careful; paper DPS with drones should be cca 750-850 for good mission setup + implants, but your effective DPS will be lower then tengu on missions with small rats (but then again, it will be better against rats not sensitive to kinetic, so it is ok tradeoff)
Cruise golem trades some dps of CNR for better damage application, tank and looting/salvaging. It should give you better overall profit then CNR.
Torp golem or CNR (golem is much better here) (dps > 1000, perhaps 1200+ if you push it) will crunch anything they can reach and are best missile ships for short range missions (such as damsel), but range is major problem. Also contrary to popular belief, torps can deliver quite good damage against cruiser sized targets (if you have few painters and ideally golem); elite frigs will still **** you up.
So basically CNR, Golem and Tengu are very similar when it comes to performance - rat types and engagement ranges will dictate which one is better. normal raven and CN scorpion lag behind, drake lags even more behind. Nor sure about rattlesnake, it has really good paper stats, but all the problems of drones ships in reality.

I fly a Fleet Issue Typhoon running T2 Cruise Launchers x 5, 2 med howitzer arties, and a 1400 arty. And with a mix of random T2 drones, my Fitting window shows just under 700 dps.

I'm sure I could make that go higher with some rig switching and more DPS-oriented uses of mid slots, but I prefer to fit for stability and endurance for ruinning lvl 4's in hi-sec. So in my mids, I have one painter and 3 Cap Recharger II's. And 2 of my 3 rig slots are cap recharge rigs - the 3rd is a rigor catalyst. I run two LAR II's in low with omni resists and plates and a DC2. She's slow but she takes a helluva beating and needs cap recharge.

I like being able to last...even if it means the missions takes an extra 15 minutes. ESPECIALLY now that you can't keep drones out for more than 10 second or send them further away than 10km thanks to baffling AI changes... you can't always count on the drones to handle the scrammers before they get popped anymore..

For a tengu I use the HAM fit, which does 905 DPS with my skills and no implants. It's a MONSTER against everything that is withink 40km.

I use a Golem for everything else. my torp golem does about 1200 dps, or about 800 on average cause I use javelins a lot.

The last time i checked with a raven I was doing about 800 Dps with drones.

I'd really recommend the HAM tengu though it chews through ammo like no other and requires good skills to use.

On my CNR I never, never shoot at the frigates. Drones kill them all (though they are far from perfect).
If (rarely), after the destruction of cruisers and battleships remain several frigates - I'd rather wait a few dozens of seconds and leave them to drones.
And even with new npc AI - I very rarely lose drones, perhaps one to a 20-30 missions.