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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Proposal: Escort Carrier

Author
Gannicus Kane
Sotken Enterprises
#1 - 2013-02-22 01:19:35 UTC
I recently returned to EVE after a hiatus of several years (started a new account) and found that relatively little had changed on the Capital ship front, and while this was not all that surprising, it was a little disappointing that nothing new had been added in the area of Carriers. While I understand that it is a tricky area given that many non-capital ships function as a sort of "light carriers" or "assault carriers" given the drone output that they possess, I think that some interesting functions can be added to greatly benefit groups/fleets.

Towards that end I propose taking a page out of the history books and looking back to the second world war, where multiple nations built several different types of smaller carriers to support ground forces or protect freighter convoys in an effort to both provide improved protection/support but to also take strain off of the larger fleet carriers. These ships were often less than half the size of the larger fleet carriers and the smallest ones (escort carriers for convoys) were built from re-purposed transport hulls and didn't even have a below-deck hangar, but they were able to carry a small number of fighters and proved extremely effective against submarines. Today the US Navy still maintains a small number of light carriers to support marine ground forces, though in WWII they were often referred to as "Jeep carriers" because they were very easy and cheap to produce in contrast to the fleet carriers.

With that in mind, I propose the following for EVE: The Escort Carrier
-A Large hull non-capital ship without a jump drive, designed to travel with the fleet and provide direct support. While less than half the size of its fleet cousins, it is still capable of launching a small number of fighters to support fleet operations and providing direct assistance to friendly ships under fire.

Additionally I believe that the ship could serve as an anti-cloak craft by giving it access to an "stealth emissions scanner" module or something along those lines in order to coordinate anti-cloaking operations. My thought is a scanner that narrows down where a cloaked ship is/has been, then allow a fleet member to warp to the location and deploy a 'cloak disrupting burst' over a large area in order to hunt it down.

Stats: (using Amarr for example)
-Hull: 5,800
-Armor: 6,250
-Shield: 5,200
-Drone Bay: 26,000 m3
-Slots:
--High: 6
--Mid: 3
--Low: 7
-Powergrid: 14,500
-CPU: 550

Bonuses:
-125% bonus to Energy Transfer Array and Remote Armor Repair Systems range per level, 12.5% reduction in Energy Transfer Array and Remote Armor Repair Systems capacitor use per level.

Role Bonus:
-200% bonus to Fighter Range
-99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
*-Can fit anti-cloaking package* (if it ever comes around)

General Skills required: (adjusted for summer change)
-Amarr Escort Carrier 1
--Adv. Spaceship command 3

-Amarr Battleship 3
-Drone Interfacing 5
--Drone 5

Traditional rules for carriers would apply, where you could assign up to 5 fighters to fleet members but this carrier can only have 5 out in total, so it's firepower could be deployed as needed but it would not be able to do what it's larger cousins were capable of.

Anyway, what do yall think?
Reicine Ceer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-02-22 01:46:16 UTC
Just give it a massive boost to Smart Bomb range so that after you've scanned down Cloaked Ship emissions using a specialised script for the Sensor Booster (i figure these emissions would be like the current engine trails, but spanning many AU and being weak and difficult/skill based to detect and follow) you can hit ze button, see if the Smartbomb gets a hit (visual; skill based), you can try to move in for the kill.

This'd actually give stealth bomber pilots that "submariner under depth-charge fire" feel, making stalking targets pretty darn tense!
Gannicus Kane
Sotken Enterprises
#3 - 2013-02-23 16:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Gannicus Kane
Reicine Ceer wrote:
Just give it a massive boost to Smart Bomb range so that after you've scanned down Cloaked Ship emissions using a specialised script for the Sensor Booster (i figure these emissions would be like the current engine trails, but spanning many AU and being weak and difficult/skill based to detect and follow) you can hit ze button, see if the Smartbomb gets a hit (visual; skill based), you can try to move in for the kill.

This'd actually give stealth bomber pilots that "submariner under depth-charge fire" feel, making stalking targets pretty darn tense!


That's a pretty good idea, though I think that might be better used on Destroyers or certain frigates engaged in anti-stealth operations.

I was thinking more along the lines of getting a location, being able to give that location to another group member (an interceptor for argument's sake) then assigning the fleet member your 5 fighters. They warp and drop a beacon, from which you can target some sort of pulse or large AoE to knock them out of cloak and buy you a few seconds to tag the stealther.

I don't know, that's probably impractical, but I'm certainly open to ideas Smile
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#4 - 2013-02-23 16:28:09 UTC
This idea seems to come up at least twice a month.
Oh and anti cloak threads spawn like daily, you should really read those other threads before posting the very same idea again because all the arguments are already written down somewhere.

Radhe Amatin
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2013-02-23 16:31:10 UTC
Gannicus Kane wrote:
Reicine Ceer wrote:
Just give it a massive boost to Smart Bomb range so that after you've scanned down Cloaked Ship emissions using a specialised script for the Sensor Booster (i figure these emissions would be like the current engine trails, but spanning many AU and being weak and difficult/skill based to detect and follow) you can hit ze button, see if the Smartbomb gets a hit (visual; skill based), you can try to move in for the kill.

This'd actually give stealth bomber pilots that "submariner under depth-charge fire" feel, making stalking targets pretty darn tense!


That's a pretty good idea, though I think that might be better used on Destroyers or certain frigates engaged in anti-stealth operations.

I was thinking more along the lines of getting a location, being able to give that location to another group member (an interceptor for argument's sake) then assigning the fleet member your 5 fighters. They warp and drop a beacon, from which you can target some sort of pulse or large AoE to knock them out of cloak and buy you a few seconds to tag the stealther.

I don't know, that's probably impractical, but I'm certainly open to ideas Smile


why is everyone keep asking for more carriers with more logistic bonuses....... if u want a smaller carrier that can be used as an gang escort make it bring something new to the table.
like don`t let him use fighters .... but let him field 10 or 15 normal drones.
no logistic bonuses..there's already a cap ship for that a second one will be pointless.
give it bonuses for ecm drones instead..so people will use more then jamming drones.
being smaller let him use jump gate(but still have jump drives)...to be of any use to small and medium gangs.....let face it if u roam around low sec its kinda a pita to keep jumping carriers, besides when a cyno pops in a system people start running to the nearest station.
basically make it more suited for front line battle.
Gannicus Kane
Sotken Enterprises
#6 - 2013-02-23 16:47:59 UTC
Radhe Amatin wrote:
why is everyone keep asking for more carriers with more logistic bonuses....... if u want a smaller carrier that can be used as an gang escort make it bring something new to the table.
like don`t let him use fighters .... but let him field 10 or 15 normal drones.
no logistic bonuses..there's already a cap ship for that a second one will be pointless.
give it bonuses for ecm drones instead..so people will use more then jamming drones.
being smaller let him use jump gate(but still have jump drives)...to be of any use to small and medium gangs.....let face it if u roam around low sec its kinda a pita to keep jumping carriers, besides when a cyno pops in a system people start running to the nearest station.
basically make it more suited for front line battle.


I hear you on the logistical bonuses, I thought about that when I was designing this thing and when I decided on going with fighters I remembered experiences that I'd had against motherships and carriers before the original fighter/drone control change, when carriers and motherships could filed and control all 10-25 drones at the same time and how devastating it was to get hit by over 10 T2 heavy drones at the same time.

As for the low sec part, if you read the Original post, you'll note that this ship does NOT have a jump drive and must use the stargates and stay with the fleet, hence it could move quietly and travel through high-sec...
OkarasRule
Murder Is Sometimes Justified
Ankle Biter's
#7 - 2013-02-23 20:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: OkarasRule
Would be a reasonable idea to have it fly 10 med drones max "100mbits" but can fit 20 in total. This would give it a potential to rethink highsec wars. Scrub the logi bonuses and replace it with bonuses to local repping. Have it the size of a orca with all the flight enjoyment. If its escourt then have it fit a hanger big enough to fit 1 battleship. Cost wise 750m seems right and give it 100k ehp base.

Caldari:
4 highs
6 meds
3 lows
3 rigs

20k shields
15k armour
11k structure

10k pg
800 cpu
300 cal
20k cap

200m3 drone bay
100 bandwith

Bonus per lv: 25% bonus to med drone damage
Bonus per lv: 10% bonus to shield repping
Role: 100% bonus to drone control range





Mini Dreadnaughts would be large guns but with 200% role bonus to damage with a skill 10% bonus to fireing speed. Same style of slots and tank. Cost would be the same aswell.
Gannicus Kane
Sotken Enterprises
#8 - 2013-02-23 21:46:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Gannicus Kane
OkarasRule wrote:
Would be a reasonable idea to have it fly 10 med drones max "100mbits" but can fit 20 in total. This would give it a potential to rethink highsec wars. Scrub the logi bonuses and replace it with bonuses to local repping. Have it the size of a orca with all the flight enjoyment. If its escourt then have it fit a hanger big enough to fit 1 battleship. Cost wise 750m seems right and give it 100k ehp base.

Caldari:
4 highs
6 meds
3 lows
3 rigs

20k shields
15k armour
11k structure

10k pg
800 cpu
300 cal
20k cap

200m3 drone bay
100 bandwith

Bonus per lv: 25% bonus to med drone damage
Bonus per lv: 10% bonus to shield repping
Role: 100% bonus to drone control range





Mini Dreadnaughts would be large guns but with 200% role bonus to damage with a skill 10% bonus to fireing speed. Same style of slots and tank. Cost would be the same aswell.



High sec corporations and High sec wars were one of my two main lines of thought with this ship; the other being carrier support in null sec offensive operations but lets table that one for now.

I think you've got a good line of thought here as well, though I don't quite understand why you'd prefer to have 10 medium drones out over 5 fighters, are you concerned about it being overpowered with fighters? Either way I think we could safely boost up the drone bay of the build you listed to 500-1000 with the bandwidth staying how it is in order to provide flexibility on the fly.

As for the Mini-Dreadnaughts, I'd given some thought to that as well and I felt it could be done as a sort of 'next step' as the destroyers and battlecruisers are now in that it would be called a "Heavy Battleship" require Battleship 3 (or 4 depending on how things played out), be able to fit 6-7 Large guns and have a Role bonus that allowed it to fit an "Assault Module" (for lack of a better name at the moment) that granted a 125% damage bonus to the Large guns but killed their tracking speed (plus tanking bonuses and all that stuff) while burning a reduced amount of stront as fuel.

Probably too much, but it's a work-in-progress :)
Radhe Amatin
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2013-02-23 22:41:29 UTC
Gannicus Kane wrote:
Radhe Amatin wrote:
why is everyone keep asking for more carriers with more logistic bonuses....... if u want a smaller carrier that can be used as an gang escort make it bring something new to the table.
like don`t let him use fighters .... but let him field 10 or 15 normal drones.
no logistic bonuses..there's already a cap ship for that a second one will be pointless.
give it bonuses for ecm drones instead..so people will use more then jamming drones.
being smaller let him use jump gate(but still have jump drives)...to be of any use to small and medium gangs.....let face it if u roam around low sec its kinda a pita to keep jumping carriers, besides when a cyno pops in a system people start running to the nearest station.
basically make it more suited for front line battle.


I hear you on the logistical bonuses, I thought about that when I was designing this thing and when I decided on going with fighters I remembered experiences that I'd had against motherships and carriers before the original fighter/drone control change, when carriers and motherships could filed and control all 10-25 drones at the same time and how devastating it was to get hit by over 10 T2 heavy drones at the same time.

As for the low sec part, if you read the Original post, you'll note that this ship does NOT have a jump drive and must use the stargates and stay with the fleet, hence it could move quietly and travel through high-sec...


i know from experience that getting hit by 10 heavy drones sucks......but being an escort ship means to have mobility tank and fire power to support the gang / fleet, so 10 heavy drones at one time, even if they do some serious dmg, its not overpowered, it needs the fire power to keep its self alive and not be solo killed by any ship.
and i read the OP , and what i meant to say was let it have a jump drive with half the normal carrier range.
Having the ability to use the gates will help the gangs move around with this ship as support without the need of using a cyno for every system you roam in and the jump drives to move it around with the need to mobilize an support fleet to guard it.
And to avoid a most certain station wars make then so they can`t dock in stations, u`ll just need to park it at a pos. and ofcourse don`t let them in lvl 4 missions or it will render other ships tottaly useless.
Gannicus Kane
Sotken Enterprises
#10 - 2013-02-26 22:32:30 UTC
Radhe Amatin wrote:
i know from experience that getting hit by 10 heavy drones sucks......but being an escort ship means to have mobility tank and fire power to support the gang / fleet, so 10 heavy drones at one time, even if they do some serious dmg, its not overpowered, it needs the fire power to keep its self alive and not be solo killed by any ship.
and i read the OP , and what i meant to say was let it have a jump drive with half the normal carrier range.
Having the ability to use the gates will help the gangs move around with this ship as support without the need of using a cyno for every system you roam in and the jump drives to move it around with the need to mobilize an support fleet to guard it.
And to avoid a most certain station wars make then so they can`t dock in stations, u`ll just need to park it at a pos. and ofcourse don`t let them in lvl 4 missions or it will render other ships tottaly useless.


I can get deal with the 10 heavy drones overall (though I think it's too much and the other suggestion in this thread about 10 medium drones might work out well) given that the ship is built around drones rather than fighters, but other stuff that you mention really doesn't make a lot of sense.

Namely the no-docking feature, since this thing is able to go into High-sec it wouldn't make a lot of sense to keep it from docking (especially when the only ships that cannot dock are that was because of their physical size in relation to stations).

Also, the jump drive is a little odd, perhaps a T2 or second/third tier version of the ship that can use the black ops jump drive?
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#11 - 2013-04-12 12:41:01 UTC
As I read this post I feel like this ship should be in the battleship tier of training with the added escort carrier bonus.

Sticking to the theme of it (WWII support ship) I think fighters should be used rather than drones period, still going with theme of course.

No jump drive, just doesn't feel right to me for a sub cap ship.

If the smaller carrier can dock so should this. Also the size of the ship should be along the lines of a battleship as well.

As for the logi bonuses, yes scrap them. Let it have however as many high slots are needed for the anti cloak equipment that are needed for it to track the general location of a cloaked ship and to decloak it. That is if CCP would like to add that much needed equipment.

Those are my 0.2isk, I hope I never have to post on this subject again and it actually becomes a reality.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."