EVE General Discussion

I probaly should have made my position clear despite the argument of building below mineral prices.

We should really keep the status quo with the current game economy because it is currently working.

People on both sides of the PVP fence are getting profits and able to purchase ships at reasonable prices.

There is no need to nef hi-sec for any reason. There are reasons to assist null-sec to make it more fluid, but the argument is about whether or not large scale industrialists are ruining the game.

The fact is they are not (despite the fact they sell below mineral prices) and everyone can still enjoy the game by the shear fact they can afford new products with whatever income they have.

Changing the status quo might cause a great market disruption which is just bad in general.

On a side note, I do not think there is any reason to nerf hi-sec T2 industry for NPC corps simply because of the fact that most research stations have a queue of one to two months making most tasks rather impossible to do in a reasonable amount of time.

Someone with access to a low/null sec station will alway be able to make quite a bit more BPCs than you can waiting in line over a month to do. Also POS's are really what you need to produce T2 BPC ina timely manner.

If you are serious about researching and producing T2 BPCs you need a POS which means you need a corp. Also POS space in high sec is rather limited which means moving into Low, WH, or Null is a more interesting option.

Also there is the option of wardeccing just to remove POS in hisec to put your up. I don't see any problems with that and the current system.

Converse what? This same exact topic that's been discussed to death every week for how many years.

So that I can read rediculous comments that have no bearing on the issues we face in null, made by people who claim to be high sec industrialist but don't seem to undertand how basic industry stuff works.

Like when people make comments about people who mass produce being able to drive out people who don't. Which is what both of you seem to be saying, you just don't seem to be as completely out of it as the other guy.

We say the same exact things over and over and over. Just to have you guys come back at us with one rediculous excuse after the next.

We'll control the economy
We just don't like high sec.
Null is for PvP.
High sec is supposed to be the best for industry.
It's "our" fault.
It'll drive people out of the game.
New players wont be able to do industry.
New players won't be able to afford to buy things.


It's not a T1 problem, it's a T2 production problem.

The fixes to null aren't needed for balance, theyr'e need because theres 300k more people playing the game then 7 years ago, and that means more people in null. Null station station upgrades don't account for the number of people in null now, they were designed when there were far fewer people here. It's not an oversight, it was clearly designed around the number of people they expected to need to support at the time it was implimented.

WE HAVE TO IMPORT the stuff to build T2 goods. If I wasn't importing T2 components I would be able to build **** as well as anyone in high sec.


Do you guys understand that T2 components, and the materials used to make them, are not available in null sec. I can not buy Titanium carbanide or damn near any other T2 material to make T2 compnents in null sec, where they ******* originated from.

It's not "your fault" it's the mechanics. Moons are a part of the problem.

Being able to mine the minerals in the same area you build is another problem. You can not undock in null and start mining rocks to reduce the cost of your goods. My alt doesn't buy minerals to build in high sec, I mine it myself.

You have more minerals then you need in high sec, I don't have enough in null.

A lot of the salvage I need, doesn't come from null sec either. Armor plates are not cheap, and the amount of them being sold in all of deklein is next to nill. There's two of us buying all of the armour plates in deklein; I need thousands and I'm lucky if I get 100 in a week.

YOU do not have to go anywhere outside of where you play in order to PLAY. I do. Everyday. I spend upwards of 500m a day in high sec.

I pay 200 isk per m^3 to import to null.
I ship 360k m^3 worth of materials up to 3 times a week.

When I build something that costs a million isk, and you can buy that something for a million in jita and ship it for a few thousand I'm in a noncompetitive position.

You can sell 100 of that something in a day in high sec, I can only sell 10.
Guys who are trying to make some passive income can import that something for just a couple of thousand, and then sell it for just a few thousand over thier total cost. They don't care that they don't sell that many, it's passive income. They treat it like a lot of people treat PI, something you do to make a few million a month.

I put in a LOT time and effort to actually build the stuff.

When most of the 200+ items I sell in null end up getting driven down to near jita prices, I know exactly why.


I'm sick of having to write this **** out every week some people can't accept that they're gaining to large an advantage. You can not buff null sec to allow me to compete, and many of the mechanics that drive my problems can't be changed because of the eocnomy.

What can be changed is things like:
Ore concentrations.
Line costs.
Taxes.
Improved PoS's for everyone.
Improved station upgrading.
Reduced lines in high sec stations. You actually have an excess of lines in high sec, you guys have a lot of underutilized stations.
All T2 production being moved to .7 and lower.

None of these things would hurt new players, would not have a negative impact on older players, and would benefit the game as a whole.

Well if CCP was doing a bad job then subs would have dropped off. We woudln't be seeing 58,000k current connected users and a damn full Jita every day if CCP was driving away customers with bad expansions.

Do you really think if CCP got rid of Hi-Sec people would come out of the wood work demanding to play EVE?

You will never convince them of that, despite the fact that CCP advertises EVE as a single shard universe. High Sec people are ery good at seeing only that which pleases them, and with the exception of rare (in the grand scheme of things) suicide gank, the game lets them keep on believing what they want without consequence.

In low, null and wormholes, the guy who sees what he wants rather than what is doesn't last long. in high it's a way of life.

People would sign up in droves to shoot people like you, then do crazy things like build T1 goods and sell them on the market for higher than their mineral cost because now there is some sort of profit margin to play with.

You speak for all of hi-sec?

Why don't you get all those people to start a kickstarter campaign to donate money to CCP if they get rid of hisec?

$1,000,000 should suffice.

Or maybe a kickstart campaign of $100 million so you can buy CCP from their investors and turn the game into what you want like forcing people to undock by a push of a button.

Or maybe you will have to use all that money to buy plex to pay for your 10 billion isk ships since no one is making ships anymore at reasonable prices.

Not quite advocating for that but you are close, I would rather see the wardec evasion exploit removed and NPC corps to be something to avoid rather than to live in. Sounds a lot more reasonable, because it was the way highsec was designed to be.

For a guy who seemingly knows a lot about industry, you sure know nothing about market forces.

I'm not sure if you see the cause and effect in economics land.

Jita and Hi-Sec industry keeps the prices low which helps people on fixed income (Missioners and Ratters).

If hi sec went away tomorrow the first thing that would happen is that mineral prices would go through the roof simply because miners would be unable to mine (at the rate that they do).

This would lead to massive cost increases to people who manafacture who get less of a profit. Therefore people who manufacture would have to have to sell their wares at a higher price.

People who are on fixed income (missioners and ratters) would suddenly discover their incomes are no longer able to purchase the same amount of goods as before.

Unable to replace their ship losses (also related to loss of hi-sec) without resorting to plex, many players that are on fixed income will consider quitting the game because of the fact they can no longer afford to play.

Simple.
Economics.

[edit]

By fixed income I mean incomes that are limited simply by the static numbers CCP sets on certain tasks. When you kill a rat you earn a fixed amount of isk set by CCP. Those incomes do not change because market prices do.

I'm sorry, you're either full of **** or just out of touch.

Jita wasn't desinged by CCP. Jita was never intended to be what it is today.

The playerbase is entirely responcible for jita. CCP had to remove all the content from the system because of us. They did not design high sec around a jita trade hub.

You making baseless arguements, trying to imply that jita is by design and for purpose. It is not, and you are incredibly wrong.


WTF do I know. I only spent 5 years playing entirely in high sec, and the last year or so in null.
Jita is not benefitting the rest of the game, it only benefits the people that use it to sell large volumes of stuff.

People outside of jita, and away from the major hubs sell **** at normal prices.

People are not poor in EVE for crying out loud. New players do not struggle to make ISK. Missions and mining are absurdly easy, and both pay extremely well, everying in EVE pays extremely well.

It takes NO EFFORT to make a million isk an hour. You would have to be at your computer dead to not be able to do 1m an hour, and I have a feeling even a dead guy could do it.