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Hi-Sec Vs Lo-Sec hate, what is the deal?
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Karle Tabot
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-02-21 03:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Karle Tabot
People like to speak of risk and reward. So how do newer players likely look at high, low and null sec?

I wager they feel they can play the game in high sec as a newer player, actually get to enjoy playing, and make ISK. But that the image they see of low and null sec is that unless they go there with a large group, they are almost certainly going to die, get mocked and lose all their stuff.

Few thoughtful players find fun in dying in a fire, getting mocked and seeing their stuff taken.

Sure, thats great fun for those out in low and null sec doing all they can to lure fresh victims to the slaughter, not to mention the great laugh they get to have at the other poor player's expense, and the reward they get to plunder his belongings.

The problem for those in low and null sec seems to be that word has spread about how it is totally permissible to lure players out there to victimize them when they lack the knowledge and skill to have any chance.

So to them it appears all the risk is their's, and all the reward is the veteran players so actively trying to get them in range of their one-sided combat ambushes.
Peri Simone
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-02-21 03:46:27 UTC
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:
Lowsec.... I don't really know. It's a good place for small gang PvP, but except for a few hotspots, it's dead, and the systems SEEM worthless. I don't know, maybe I'm not refined enough to know how, or Why one would live in Lowsec.


You pretty much nailed it, Dheeradj, it's a good place for small gang pvp and soloists. It's also kind of fun to play in the badlands that nobody much cares about, skirting the line between Empire and Federation. I guess it looks pretty empty if you're just passing through it, but there's a community here.
Chal0ner
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#23 - 2013-02-21 11:15:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Chal0ner
Dmitri Renier wrote:
Cleon Nikostratos wrote:

OK, I can see there might be a point there if it is possible to make a lot more money with a lot less risk. I don't know enough about the economy at my young (game) age to feel like I could judge that.

But someone earlier said there are materiels that cannot be obtained in Empire space. That does not balance things out? Why not ask for improved economic opportunity in Nullsec instead of looking for the other guy to be nerfed?


Thats kinda the problem - Due to the interconnections of the markets, production, etc, an improvement to nullsec is a nerf to highsec. It's close to impossible to improve one area of the game without a knock-on effect damaging a diffent segment.

The reason for a lot of the 'conflict' at the moment is a concerted push by nullsec players to improve some of the shittiest parts of their game. But doing so will cause massive downsides to high-sec, and hence players with a vested intrest there are resistant. And visa versa, every time a highsec improvement is suggested, nullsec players are consious that it would negatively impact the balance in their direction.


Because of Mittens*, just say it don't be shy Big smile

Else it pretty much sums up that part of the "problem". One other reason (someone might have mentioned) is the new people coming into the game, getting killed for


  • jumping unprepared into lowsec (or a highsec/nullsec gate like HED-GP/Keberz) and whine in the forums
  • shooting at someone stealing their ore/mission loot/whatever and whine in the forums
  • doing some other stupid thing and then whine in the forums


And then demanding that EVE should change to prevent the new guys from doing stupid things.
And then everyone with time and profile enough moans on the forums demanding the stupid, ignorante high sec noob to STFU or HTFU or GTFBTWOW or everything at the same time. Which will make all new people think of 0.0 beings as arrogante elitists.

* Mittens, a.k.a. The Mittani, leader of Goonswarm and the Clusterfuck Coalition, one of the more vocal high profile 0.0 alliance/coalition leaders in EVE.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-02-21 15:26:54 UTC
The best advice I can give any Eve player, new or old, is to never ever ever read the general discussion subforum. It is a cancer on this game and should just be deleted.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2013-02-21 15:29:40 UTC
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:
The core of the conflict? Stupid people. Few Highsec dwellers hate Nullsec. Few Nullsec Dwellers hate Highsec. We depend on eachother. Some minerals can only be mined in Null, while large scale Manufacturing is almost impossible in Null, so we need to ship things to High.

Lowsec.... I don't really know. It's a good place for small gang PvP, but except for a few hotspots, it's dead, and the systems SEEM worthless. I don't know, maybe I'm not refined enough to know how, or Why one would live in Lowsec.



I had the same impression of lowec when I was in FA

Its not that lowsec is dead, its just FW heavy. If you are in lowsec and you want a lot of pvp and possible hostiles in every system.. join Faction Warfare.. it's actually a lot of fun

FC, what do?
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#26 - 2013-02-21 15:33:27 UTC
Its just people that havent realised yet that their way to play this game is not the only way to play it...

Personally i would wish that CCP would put some atention to develop lowsec so its not just for Factionwar and piece of space between highsec and nullsec.

Would be fun to actually have a reason to live in lowsec other then piracy and faction war.

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-02-21 17:27:07 UTC
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:

Lowsec.... I don't really know. It's a good place for small gang PvP, but except for a few hotspots, it's dead, and the systems SEEM worthless. I don't know, maybe I'm not refined enough to know how, or Why one would live in Lowsec.


Four of the reasons why I'm liking low compared to my time in null include:

* better market access and logistics (in the supply-chain sense)
* more opportunities for PvE and ISK with smaller hulls
* more PvP, keeps me on my toes
* less dependent on the politics of SOV, renting, and coalitions.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#28 - 2013-02-21 18:30:28 UTC
Just drama. Polarizing your life is fun!

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Slymah
DorpCorp
#29 - 2013-02-21 19:35:46 UTC
In reality it is simply CCP trying to balance their game in order to continue to produce a profitable business. They have explored different avenues and they listen to the playerbase for overall input to make (imho) the correct decisions.

It's just the self centered players that place the blame on other players instead of seeing the big picture.


Do what you want to do and pay no mind to the drama.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-02-22 23:35:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Cleon Nikostratos wrote:
So I may be putting my self in danger by jumping into what seems to be such a heated debate, but I really want to understand what the deal is.

I'm new, have been in the game less than a month so I have not yet learned the culture of the game. Everything I learned about the game before I joined up was that is was a sandbox, do what you want.

Do what you want, anywhere except high sec where mommy concord will punish the big meanie for you without you having to interact with other players to get your revenge or even have to be at the keyboard at all. Does that sound like a player-run sandbox to you? Why can't they hire mercs if they think they might get PvP cooties from touching a gun? Why did they whine until concord became invincible and inescapable? Why didn't they seek better player-based solutions from CCP if they thought the current ones were inadequate? They aren't like us. They're against everything we value. Against everything about the sandbox genre. They don't belong here.

Cleon Nikostratos wrote:
Nowhere is completely safe but if you want relative safety, play in high-sec, if you want the wild west go to null-sec, and if you want something in between head to low-sec. Pick what you want, do what you want.

But that's just the thing. High sec is the newbie area. It was meant for learning the game without someone blasting you to space dust before you figure out how to turn on your guns. It was never meant to be somewhere you could live permanently in your own little carebear themepark game-within-a-game. Carebears did what they always do; ignore the fact that there are already eleventy bazillion games out there designed specifically for them and come ruin mine. They whined and whined until their little throats were sore and high sec was made safer and more profitable every year until it bears absolutely no resemblance to its original intent. Sure, nowhere is completely safe now, but how long will that stay true? Their safety is already orders of magnitude higher than it used to be and they've already succeeded in completely repurposing their area. How long until the sandbox is gone entirely?

Cleon Nikostratos wrote:
But looking on the forums it seems there is a lot of heated debate from folks who don't like the way other people play, and want to push players to play the way they want them to.

Why so much hate between the high-sec and null-sec players? What is the core of the conflict?

Because they already succeeded in removing 90% of the sandbox from high sec. When they're done with the other 10% low sec is next and then null. They can never be happy with one of the thousands of games that's already exactly what they want. They have to go find the game that's the exact opposite of what they're looking for and change it, corrupt it. They are a direct threat to my playstyle in the only game I have left that supports that playstyle and isn't a indie game made by 5 guys in a basement.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-02-22 23:51:26 UTC
Joran Dravius wrote:
Cleon Nikostratos wrote:
So I may be putting my self in danger by jumping into what seems to be such a heated debate, but I really want to understand what the deal is.

I'm new, have been in the game less than a month so I have not yet learned the culture of the game. Everything I learned about the game before I joined up was that is was a sandbox, do what you want.

Do what you want, anywhere except high sec where mommy concord will punish the big meanie for you without you having to interact with other players to get your revenge or even have to be at the keyboard at all. Does that sound like a player-run sandbox to you? Why can't they hire mercs if they think they might get PvP cooties from touching a gun? Why did they whine until concord became invincible and inescapable? Why didn't they seek better player-based solutions from CCP if they thought the current ones were inadequate? They aren't like us. They're against everything we value. Against everything about the sandbox genre. They don't belong here.

Cleon Nikostratos wrote:
Nowhere is completely safe but if you want relative safety, play in high-sec, if you want the wild west go to null-sec, and if you want something in between head to low-sec. Pick what you want, do what you want.

But that's just the thing. High sec is the newbie area. It was meant for learning the game without someone blasting you to space dust before you figure out how to turn on your guns. It was never meant to be somewhere you could live permanently in your own little carebear themepark game-within-a-game. Carebears did what they always do; ignore the fact that there are already eleventy bazillion games out there designed specifically for them and come ruin mine. They whined and whined until their little throats were sore and high sec was made safer and more profitable every year until it bears absolutely no resemblance to its original intent. Sure, nowhere is completely safe now, but how long will that stay true? Their safety is already orders of magnitude higher than it used to be and they've already succeeded in completely repurposing their area. How long until the sandbox is gone entirely?

Cleon Nikostratos wrote:
But looking on the forums it seems there is a lot of heated debate from folks who don't like the way other people play, and want to push players to play the way they want them to.

Why so much hate between the high-sec and null-sec players? What is the core of the conflict?

Because they already succeeded in removing 90% of the sandbox from high sec. When they're done with the other 10% low sec is next and then null. They can never be happy with one of the thousands of games that's already exactly what they want. They have to go find the game that's the exact opposite of what they're looking for and change it, corrupt it. They are a direct threat to my playstyle in the only game I have left that supports that playstyle and isn't a indie game made by 5 guys in a basement.


Fail troll alt whining about stuff....Please Ignore...

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-02-22 23:54:49 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Fail troll alt whining about stuff....Please Ignore...

I assure you i'm far too lazy to type all that just to troll. I'm perfectly serious. They destroyed UO, the mother of all MMORPGs. They even destroyed SWG and it was only half sandbox. They will destroy Eve if we let them. We have to grief them until they quit while we're still allowed to.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-02-23 00:05:41 UTC
Joran Dravius wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Fail troll alt whining about stuff....Please Ignore...

I assure you i'm far too lazy to type all that just to troll. I'm perfectly serious. They destroyed UO, the mother of all MMORPGs. They even destroyed SWG and it was only half sandbox. They will destroy Eve if we let them. We have to grief them until they quit while we're still allowed to.


Again..

Whine about how people play in a sandbox in a way that I don't like.

Guess what, they can, HTFU.

Ooh, and if you want to be badass, post with your main. I just laugh at your stupidity now.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Zen Audaine
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#34 - 2013-02-23 00:10:29 UTC
I dunno, having spoken with (and observed) someone who's played for years, I got the impression that nullsec is even nicer to you than highsec... as long as you are in a good corp.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-02-23 00:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
J'Poll wrote:
Joran Dravius wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Fail troll alt whining about stuff....Please Ignore...

I assure you i'm far too lazy to type all that just to troll. I'm perfectly serious. They destroyed UO, the mother of all MMORPGs. They even destroyed SWG and it was only half sandbox. They will destroy Eve if we let them. We have to grief them until they quit while we're still allowed to.


Again..

Whine about how people play in a sandbox in a way that I don't like.

Guess what, they can, HTFU.

Ooh, and if you want to be badass, post with your main. I just laugh at your stupidity now.

You've been here for about two years, give or take, and have about 2000 likes. I've been here for about half a month (on this character). Let's assume i'll keep getting likes at the same rate and extrapolate from there. I'll have gotten 6336 likes in 2 years, over three times more than you. Looks like quite a few more people agree with my opinions than yours. If you want to keep calling me names instead of making any kind of actual point can you at least do it with mail instead of cluttering up the thread with 0 content spam?

Edit: And this is my main. I never post on alts. I biomassed to keep myself from coming back. Clearly it didn't work.

Edit 2: And i'm not crying about people playing in the sandbox how they like. I'm crying about them removing the sand and filling it with concrete.
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#36 - 2013-02-23 02:06:12 UTC
Joran Dravius wrote:

You've been here for about two years, give or take, and have about 2000 likes. I've been here for about half a month (on this character). Let's assume i'll keep getting likes at the same rate and extrapolate from there. I'll have gotten 6336 likes in 2 years, over three times more than you. Looks like quite a few more people agree with my opinions than yours. If you want to keep calling me names instead of making any kind of actual point can you at least do it with mail instead of cluttering up the thread with 0 content spam?

Edit: And this is my main. I never post on alts. I biomassed to keep myself from coming back. Clearly it didn't work.

Edit 2: And i'm not crying about people playing in the sandbox how they like. I'm crying about them removing the sand and filling it with concrete.


Ok then..let me attempt to reply to you without making you feel like im not providing any meaningful discussion.

1. Likes are completely pointless. As you might have noticed there is a massive thread called "likes and get likes" or something like that. If you post regularly in said threads you will have those 6000 likes in no time. So question, knowing this do you really think that someones "likes" means their a good poster?

2. Sadly there is no way for anyone to proove weather or not you really did delete your old character, or weather or not your just talking about how CCP is destroying the sandbox because you (as many others) have noticed how many threads are floating around on this forum about this very subject lately, and have decided to join in with the "cool boys club". But i would think that someone who actually has played for a while would be able to admit that a 2008 player is not a noob, and see the differense between asking for opinions, instead of saying "I dont know what im doing!" (as pointed out to you in another thread).

3. Tell me HOW CCP has removed the sandbox? Have they made high sec safer? No.
Here is the changes im guessing your on about.
1. Buff to barges. Its still very possible for you to suecide gank said barges. you might just have a bit more trouble doing it with a 1 week old alt that you can just trash and recreate. Thus adding more of a challange to the suecide gankers.
2. Allowing people to assist in wars. This further expands on the use of mercs in EVE, and allows more people to work together more easely. In the long run what this does is giving high sec corps that does not know how to PVP a chanse to work with others that might be able to help teach them.
3. The bounty changes. Well i honestly dont see why this really affects anything so...
4. Changes to can flipping. Before you would only be flagged to the owners corp/alliance, now your flagged to everyone. Adds a challange but dosent mean that you cant do it.
5. Buff to concord. Dident they do this years ago? Concord is there to PUNISH players who does something naughty, not prevent it.

As you might be able to understand, CCP might have made the game more challanging for certain players (those who war dec industry corps, and suecide gankers) but they have in no way removed the sandbox. made high sec safe, or given in to "carebears crying" on the forums. The sandbox is still there, but if you are not willing to listen to anyone but those who are so insistant that high sec is a "safe", what can someone say to make you even consider the posebilety that things might not be as black and white as you think they are?

Phoibe Enterprises

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