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EVE Community Spotlight #13 - Syndicate Competitive League

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CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-02-22 11:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Another Community Spotlight right in time for the weekend! This time we dive into the world of player organized tournaments in EVE Online.

Since the earliest days we have seen fantastic player organized tournaments and competitions in EVE Online, and now we are looking ahead to see which exciting tournaments and leagues the future will bring.

The 13th Spotlight is about Syndicate Competitive League.

Read more about Syndicate Competitive League in the Community Spotlight here.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
#2 - 2013-02-22 12:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Beaver Retriever
I read elsewhere that this tournament will actually take place on SiSi.

That would be daft enough on its own, as SiSi is not a part of the sandbox, but now I hear there are massive prizes involved. Prizes, which I can only assume would be handed out on TQ, considering they would have no value on SiSi. If you're going to hand out awards for things done on the test server, I feel you are crossing a line.

Can you please confirm that the blogger who claimed this event would occur on SiSi was talking out of his arse?

The devblog isn't really clear on this, but I suppose if none of the prizes are provided by CCP, it doesn't really fall under your jurisdiction. In that case, I'll redirect my rage elsewhere.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#3 - 2013-02-22 12:27:37 UTC
Beaver Retriever wrote:
I read elsewhere that this tournament will actually take place on SiSi.

That would be daft enough on its own, as SiSi is not a part of the sandbox, but now I hear there are massive prizes involved. Prizes, which I can only assume would be handed out on TQ, considering they would have no value on SiSi. If you're going to hand out awards for things done on the test server, I feel you are crossing a line.

Can you please confirm that the blogger who claimed this event would occur on SiSi was talking out of his arse?

The devblog isn't really clear on this, but I suppose if none of the prizes are provided by CCP, it doesn't really fall under your jurisdiction. In that case, I'll redirect my rage elsewhere.


Haters gonna hate?

I'm looking forward to the tournament. Hosting it on Sisi just takes the economic aspect out of the tournament and makes it all about the pilots and their fitting and flying abilities. If anything, it puts contestants on more level ground and should make for a good show of talent.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#4 - 2013-02-22 12:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Dradius Calvantia
Beaver Retriever wrote:
I read elsewhere that this tournament will actually take place on SiSi.

That would be daft enough on its own, as SiSi is not a part of the sandbox, but now I hear there are massive prizes involved. Prizes, which I can only assume would be handed out on TQ, considering they would have no value on SiSi. If you're going to hand out awards for things done on the test server, I feel you are crossing a line.

Can you please confirm that the blogger who claimed this event would occur on SiSi was talking out of his arse?

The devblog isn't really clear on this, but I suppose if none of the prizes are provided by CCP, it doesn't really fall under your jurisdiction. In that case, I'll redirect my rage elsewhere.



The tournament is taking place on SiSi for two reasons. The first reason is that it is pretty much impossible to run the format that we wanted (Double Elimination best of 3) on TQ. Time constraints between matches mean that teams will need to have all of their possible fleet comps set up before hand which would make the costs astronomical if this had to be done on TQ. In a normal AT or NEO format, teams would only run one match at a time and have about 45 minutes to buy and fit ships for the next match. Our turn around is 10 minutes. Even if you do not take that into consideration, teams are going to be flying far more matches overall in the course of the tournament. We wanted to keep the cost to potential reward ratio down in order to lower the barrier of entry for newer teams.

The second reason was during the initial planning phases of the tournament, we simply did not know what kind of support if any we would get from CCP. That meant that we needed to have a method in place to set up matches, prevent cheating, and prevent interference that worked with only tools available to players. This turned out to be just about impossible on TQ, but much more manageable in the test server environment. As it turns out, we ended up getting much more support from CCP than we expected, and these concerns became mote points. Our plans to run this on SiSi were already set at that point however.

I can understand the sentiment that you feel towards the SCL not carrying enough weight because ships are not destroyed and the wealth of the teams involved is removed from the equation. We agree that there are huge upsides to tourneys on TQ and we are not looking to replace the Alliance Tourney style competition witch includes these extra variables in determining how competitive a team is. We are instead trying to create a different type of tournament environment, with a focus more on a teams piloting skill and theory-crafting as a complement to the AT style format; not a replacement.
Seldarine
Resolute Supremacy
#5 - 2013-02-22 12:49:41 UTC
It is effort, commitment, organisation and ability that teams and team captains require to be in the running for winning EVE tournaments like this.

Most of these efforts are in the forms of managing tactics, managing team members, organising trainings and so on. Trust me that the actual isk involved of putting together a team on the main EVE server is absolutely inconsequential to the other more important things that need to happen out of game or on the test server to run a successful team.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#6 - 2013-02-22 13:10:52 UTC
Neato

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#7 - 2013-02-22 13:33:44 UTC
Yea TQ>Sisi

But

Good luck anyway Big smile

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
#8 - 2013-02-22 13:51:10 UTC
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
Beaver Retriever wrote:
I read elsewhere that this tournament will actually take place on SiSi.

That would be daft enough on its own, as SiSi is not a part of the sandbox, but now I hear there are massive prizes involved. Prizes, which I can only assume would be handed out on TQ, considering they would have no value on SiSi. If you're going to hand out awards for things done on the test server, I feel you are crossing a line.

Can you please confirm that the blogger who claimed this event would occur on SiSi was talking out of his arse?

The devblog isn't really clear on this, but I suppose if none of the prizes are provided by CCP, it doesn't really fall under your jurisdiction. In that case, I'll redirect my rage elsewhere.



The tournament is taking place on SiSi for two reasons. The first reason is that it is pretty much impossible to run the format that we wanted (Double Elimination best of 3) on TQ. Time constraints between matches mean that teams will need to have all of their possible fleet comps set up before hand which would make the costs astronomical if this had to be done on TQ. In a normal AT or NEO format, teams would only run one match at a time and have about 45 minutes to buy and fit ships for the next match. Our turn around is 10 minutes. Even if you do not take that into consideration, teams are going to be flying far more matches overall in the course of the tournament. We wanted to keep the cost to potential reward ratio down in order to lower the barrier of entry for newer teams.

The second reason was during the initial planning phases of the tournament, we simply did not know what kind of support if any we would get from CCP. That meant that we needed to have a method in place to set up matches, prevent cheating, and prevent interference that worked with only tools available to players. This turned out to be just about impossible on TQ, but much more manageable in the test server environment. As it turns out, we ended up getting much more support from CCP than we expected, and these concerns became mote points. Our plans to run this on SiSi were already set at that point however.

I can understand the sentiment that you feel towards the SCL not carrying enough weight because ships are not destroyed and the wealth of the teams involved is removed from the equation. We agree that there are huge upsides to tourneys on TQ and we are not looking to replace the Alliance Tourney style competition witch includes these extra variables in determining how competitive a team is. We are instead trying to create a different type of tournament environment, with a focus more on a teams piloting skill and theory-crafting as a complement to the AT style format; not a replacement.

When I first read it, I thought it was just silly.

Still, awarding monetary prizes for a tournament which doesn't take place within the sandbox and where nothing is risked (beyond ~honoure~ which I do know you Syndicate residents take pride in) rubs me the wrong way.

Medals would be a better bet.

Oh well, best of luck to you. Just as long as CCP isn't handing anything out for 'achievements' on the test server.
Tony Two Bullet
Monocle Madness
#9 - 2013-02-22 16:17:58 UTC

Just wanted to drop in and give you a congratulations on the awesome hard work over there!

We'll be with you this weekend and getting the word out there!



CEO  Monocle Madness ~ Mega-Insane Lotteries for the Mentally Unstable http://www.monoclemadness.com
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2013-02-22 16:25:24 UTC
It is good to see that players made a league about spaceships. I had a similar idea like this, but cldnt deliver it, no time.

Tough pitty that it is on SiSI :(....it is just not the real deal for me.

Wish u the best tough o/

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2013-02-22 16:35:22 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
It is good to see that players made a league about spaceships. I had a similar idea like this, but cldnt deliver it, no time.

There are many great initiatives coming from our fantastic EVE community and that is wonderful to see! Maybe you can contact the SCL team and see if you can work together.

I am the opinion that having multiple good initiatives running would't hurt EVE Online but instead would enrich the whole universe for everyone.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#12 - 2013-02-22 17:07:19 UTC
sounds like a fun event but i really do not like the fact that it is on the test server. I understand that they want to remove the costs from the event, but this also removes risk and everything else what makes eve to eve. Its basically pvp arcade mode with industry out of the loop. In fact its the arena everybody wanted to avoid on TQ.

this being said. i will certainly watch it since i like fights

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2013-02-22 19:43:29 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Bienator II wrote:
sounds like a fun event but i really do not like the fact that it is on the test server. I understand that they want to remove the costs from the event, but this also removes risk and everything else what makes eve to eve. Its basically pvp arcade mode with industry out of the loop. In fact its the arena everybody wanted to avoid on TQ.


This is an interesting point. With the ISK out of the equation due to the test server, wouldn't it be only personal skills and team work that would count?

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2013-02-22 19:52:56 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
sounds like a fun event but i really do not like the fact that it is on the test server. I understand that they want to remove the costs from the event, but this also removes risk and everything else what makes eve to eve. Its basically pvp arcade mode with industry out of the loop. In fact its the arena everybody wanted to avoid on TQ.


This is an interesting point. With the ISK out of the equation due to the test server, wouldn't it be only personal skills and team work would count then?


Isk is a pretty important thing in EVE. So an equation without it, is a pretty poor one.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Kip Troger
Exiled Kings
Pain And Compliance
#15 - 2013-02-22 20:42:36 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
sounds like a fun event but i really do not like the fact that it is on the test server. I understand that they want to remove the costs from the event, but this also removes risk and everything else what makes eve to eve. Its basically pvp arcade mode with industry out of the loop. In fact its the arena everybody wanted to avoid on TQ.


This is an interesting point. With the ISK out of the equation due to the test server, wouldn't it be only personal skills and team work would count then?


Isk is a pretty important thing in EVE. So an equation without it, is a pretty poor one.


I agree that the format is interesting and I think it taps into a niche that is not currently available. Although it will be a great test of personal skill and teamwork, I think what bothers me is the lack of risk involved in losing an expensive ship or pod. I think you may see different types of fleet compositions and tactics that at MUCH MORE RISKY on SiSi than you would find on TQ.

I did see earlier in the thread that it was stated that the ISK at risk is usually a very small issue for the teams involved, and I would not doubt that. And it would not be a bad thing to see more risky tactics and more expensive ships flown more aggressively, it just wouldnt feel like normal EVE combat.

I am not bashing the idea at all, and I applaud the effort put into it. I am just stating my own concern on why I would not be as interested in watching these fights, as I feel like they may be less realistic than TQ fights, and I would not take as much knowledge for my own personal gain. Although, if its a good stream with interesting commentary, you will probably find me there despite my concerns. Especially if you are giving a away free stuff.Lol
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#16 - 2013-02-22 20:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
CCP Phantom wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
sounds like a fun event but i really do not like the fact that it is on the test server. I understand that they want to remove the costs from the event, but this also removes risk and everything else what makes eve to eve. Its basically pvp arcade mode with industry out of the loop. In fact its the arena everybody wanted to avoid on TQ.


This is an interesting point. With the ISK out of the equation due to the test server, wouldn't it be only personal skills and team work would count then?

yes. Íts Eve minus MMORPG. A battle arena without consequences. Where everybody can fly pirate faction ships without thinking twice about it unless its restricted by match rules or something.

next step would be to give all participates maximal skillset to make it even more player skill based

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Hoarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-02-22 21:24:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hoarr
I'm going to repost what I wrote on Jester's Trek:


Hoarr wrote:
FULL DISCLOSURE : I am involved with the ExoDunks team.

The rules say no AT ships.

As far as SISI goes, I think it was a smart move. Since they are trying to make this a season instead of a one off, it is much more palatable to the teams involved to only have to invest the time into it instead of ISK and time.

Keep in mind that the prize pool is significantly smaller than it was for the NEO and the AT. If this was on TQ, the only teams that would be able to participate would be alliances big enough to use the tournament as a significant loss leader for their recruitment efforts. Given the nature of the organizers (Syndicate residents), this was never going to happen.





Honestly, in this case the question isn't "Should we have a tourney on TQ or SISI?" It's, "should we have a tourney on SiSi or no tourney?"
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#18 - 2013-02-22 21:36:36 UTC
Interesting link behind "High Popularity": Player Sports Organizations. I would not call (some of) them highly popular, all are inactive as far as I know, and importance to this article escapes me. What could be the reason for this link?

  1. This is a jab at the racing community
  2. Writer of blog did not check relevance
  3. Writer wants to bring more exposure to the racing community
  4. This is a hint that the SCL is gonna host racing events.

I certainly hope 1 is not the caseEvil. 2 I can forgiveStraight. 3 is appreciatedCool. 4 would be awesomeP!

-Ché Biko
captain of racing team 10-segrity

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-02-23 01:50:20 UTC
This could be fun

cu on the battlefield Pirate
Stridsflygplan
Deliverance.
Arrival.
#20 - 2013-02-23 15:27:07 UTC
Awesome! Cool
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