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Remove sec status hit in FW plexes for FW pilots
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2manno Asp
Death By Design
#61 - 2013-02-22 19:30:38 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Ak'athra J'ador wrote:
Agree with OP and I live in FW space but am nuetral.

Any fool can see how silly it is that I can enter a plex and shoot first or wait in a plex expecting the same.

And special treatment Mag's? LOL! If you don't think groups/sections of space are all treated differently, then you still don't get EVE at all.
I get Eve. It seems many special snowflake FW players, have problems in that area.

null and wspace is offtopic since crimewatch is turned off. If it would be turned off in plexes too this thread would not exist
That's the point. If you don't want to deal with crimewatch penalties, move to either null or WH space. Blink


or maybe it shouldn't be a crime to shoot someone that enters a warzone to shoot you, during a war.

yea. how 'bout that... maybe it just make too much sense.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#62 - 2013-02-22 19:30:59 UTC
2manno Asp wrote:


mags. you still haven't made a point. you keep explaining what is while dodging what can be. i never understood people that simply recount things. we get it. there's a sec status hit when you shoot a nuet. no one has ever disputed that, there's really no reason to keep bringing it up. it's the reason for the post.

also, no one is crying. when you say things like that it makes me think you're just here because you like making sure that you get your way regardless of how you do it or what makes sense. it's childish, and children cry. are you crying because someone is pointing out something that doesn't make sense, or are you trying to make a point that makes sense? if the latter, please do it.

i'd still like the status hit removed so it makes mores sense... at this point I can see you really don't have a rational counter-pioint, do you? i mean, really, why would making more sense be an issue? you can't argue it.
But that is the point, it's fine as it is. It only makes sense to you, because you feel you need special treatment. I like Eve as the sandbox it is, where people can succeed in whatever they wish. But this means so can everyone else and if this messes with your goal, tough.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#63 - 2013-02-22 19:33:42 UTC
2manno Asp wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Ak'athra J'ador wrote:
Agree with OP and I live in FW space but am nuetral.

Any fool can see how silly it is that I can enter a plex and shoot first or wait in a plex expecting the same.

And special treatment Mag's? LOL! If you don't think groups/sections of space are all treated differently, then you still don't get EVE at all.
I get Eve. It seems many special snowflake FW players, have problems in that area.

null and wspace is offtopic since crimewatch is turned off. If it would be turned off in plexes too this thread would not exist
That's the point. If you don't want to deal with crimewatch penalties, move to either null or WH space. Blink


or maybe it shouldn't be a crime to shoot someone that enters a warzone to shoot you, during a war.

yea. how 'bout that... maybe it just make too much sense.
You are at war with the other Faction, end of. Much like war dec in high sec are only between certain corps/alliances. If you're not in that corp/alliance, you pay the penalty.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Onomerous
KARNAGE
Ghostbirds
#64 - 2013-02-22 19:33:57 UTC
"i'd still like the status hit removed so it makes mores sense... at this point I can see you really don't have a rational counter-pioint, do you? i mean, really, why would making more sense be an issue? you can't argue it."

He gave a completely rational counter-point:
"It's you asking for a restriction from the penalty of a sec hit, for shooting neutrals. Which is special treatment. Just because the FW label is on it, doesn't and shouldn't exclude you from penalties regarding neutrals. It's FW, not FNW. "

You may not like his counter-point but it is entirely rational.
2manno Asp
Death By Design
#65 - 2013-02-22 19:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: 2manno Asp
Mag's wrote:
2manno Asp wrote:
Your argument that no space is off limits to players is a very red herring, as I've not posted about restricting anyone from anything. The question is whether or not a nuetral that enters a warzone plex is protected by Concord? This is a sec status question, not a question of restriction.
It's you asking for a restriction from the penalty of a sec hit, for shooting neutrals. Which is special treatment. Just because the FW label is on it, doesn't and shouldn't exclude you from penalties regarding neutrals. It's FW, not FNW.


this argument make no sense. games have rules. rules made by people that define it. how high you can fly, far you can go, who you can shoot, when and where, etc.

are you saying these ruels, which you call 'special treatment' are nowhere else in EVE, and thus 'illegal' to put in EVE? is that your argument?

or are you simply saying that, in this one instance, you personally don't feel the rule should be changed?

which is it?
Onomerous
KARNAGE
Ghostbirds
#66 - 2013-02-22 19:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Onomerous
"You are at war with the other Faction, end of. Much like war dec in high sec are only between certain corps/alliances. If you're not in that corp/alliance, you pay the penalty."

But it is LOW SEC... That is how LS works.
Onomerous
KARNAGE
Ghostbirds
#67 - 2013-02-22 19:37:29 UTC
"or are you simply saying that, in this one instance, you personally feel the rule should be changed?

which is it?"

Exactly. You are asking for the rules to be changed just for you and your style of play (FW). All other LS works one way but FW are completely different...

Which is it? ;)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#68 - 2013-02-22 19:38:04 UTC
2manno Asp wrote:
Mag's wrote:
2manno Asp wrote:
Your argument that no space is off limits to players is a very red herring, as I've not posted about restricting anyone from anything. The question is whether or not a nuetral that enters a warzone plex is protected by Concord? This is a sec status question, not a question of restriction.
It's you asking for a restriction from the penalty of a sec hit, for shooting neutrals. Which is special treatment. Just because the FW label is on it, doesn't and shouldn't exclude you from penalties regarding neutrals. It's FW, not FNW.


this argument make no sense. games have rules. rules made by people that define it. how high you can fly, far you can go, etc.

are you saying these ruels, which you call 'special treatment' are nowhere else in EVE, and thus 'illegal' to put in EVE? is that your argument?

or are you simply saying that, in this one instance, you personally don't feel the rule should be changed?

which is it?
I'm saying the rules are fine as applied already. These rules a set for low and high sec, if you don't like them there are other options.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
2manno Asp
Death By Design
#69 - 2013-02-22 19:52:47 UTC
Mag's wrote:
2manno Asp wrote:
Mag's wrote:
2manno Asp wrote:
Your argument that no space is off limits to players is a very red herring, as I've not posted about restricting anyone from anything. The question is whether or not a nuetral that enters a warzone plex is protected by Concord? This is a sec status question, not a question of restriction.
It's you asking for a restriction from the penalty of a sec hit, for shooting neutrals. Which is special treatment. Just because the FW label is on it, doesn't and shouldn't exclude you from penalties regarding neutrals. It's FW, not FNW.


this argument make no sense. games have rules. rules made by people that define it. how high you can fly, far you can go, etc.

are you saying these ruels, which you call 'special treatment' are nowhere else in EVE, and thus 'illegal' to put in EVE? is that your argument?

or are you simply saying that, in this one instance, you personally don't feel the rule should be changed?

which is it?
I'm saying the rules are fine as applied already. These rules a set for low and high sec, if you don't like them there are other options.


this post is one of those options.
Vincent R'lyeh
Screaming Hayabusa
#70 - 2013-02-22 20:08:01 UTC
Speaking as someone who is -10 and therefore can be shot anytime anywhere without the shooter taking a sec-status hit I can honestly say quit whining.

If someone warps into 'your' har har plex they are indeed most likely there to shoot at you.

But seriously arguing about removing the sec-status hit so you can shoot first?

Hello are you FW or are you a Pirate?

It's a career decision, you don't have to be Han you know, you can still target and wait but hey if you're worried about waiting for them to get in scram range before they engage and you want to shoot first at a neutral then hey guess what

That's not FW that's PIRACY

Welcome to Low-Sec.....

I have deliberately developed an air of cynicism that I originally intended to make me appear somewhat louche and caddish but actually comes across as irritable hostility combined with the unspoken threat of sudden violence.....
Kim Lesley Hartman
Hartman Ornamental Confectionery and Pies
#71 - 2013-02-22 20:21:18 UTC
2manno Asp wrote:
Seems more like you last 2 havent thought about it. A FW plex is for FW players, to PVP within the context of a permanent factionalized war dec, exercise sov mechanics and earn FW specific LP.


Translated to english;

The other kids can't play with my toys! Cause they won't play by my rules!

One word: Sandbox.

Deal with it.
Escobar Slim III
YOLOSWAGHASHTAGDOLLARBILLZSWIMMINGPOOLICECREAMS
#72 - 2013-02-22 20:26:19 UTC
I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT AMARRIANS ARE UNABLE TO DO SO BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE IN FACTION WARFARE DON'T HAVE MAPS AND I FULLY BELIEVE THAT OTHER FACTIONS AND EVEN PLAYERS IN THE IRAQ AND SUCH AS AND I BELIEVE THAT THEY ALL SHOULD GET SEC PENALTY TO EDUCATE ALL PILOTS IN AMARRIAN. IT SHOULD HELP THE AMARRIA AND MINMATARIA FACTIONS SO WE WILL BE ABLE TO BUILD UP OUR FUTURE AND NOT WORRY ABOUT SEC STATUS TOGETHER.
2manno Asp
Death By Design
#73 - 2013-02-22 20:35:46 UTC
Kim Lesley Hartman wrote:
2manno Asp wrote:
Seems more like you last 2 havent thought about it. A FW plex is for FW players, to PVP within the context of a permanent factionalized war dec, exercise sov mechanics and earn FW specific LP.


Translated to english;

The other kids can't play with my toys! Cause they won't play by my rules!

One word: Sandbox.

Deal with it.


One word: Fail.
Zhao Wuhan
Liquicity Industrys
#74 - 2013-02-22 21:01:00 UTC
I have posted my thoughts on the Features & Ideas section about this topic... Allowing the Militia to be its own Standing. With that; anyone who is enemy or neutral who has a -5.0 to your militia. You are allowed to kill them without losing your security loss. As well prevent players from docking who are an enemy of that State, Republic, etc... in their systems. So check my thread and let me know what you think.
Vincent R'lyeh
Screaming Hayabusa
#75 - 2013-02-22 21:28:29 UTC
2manno Asp wrote:
Kim Lesley Hartman wrote:
2manno Asp wrote:
Seems more like you last 2 havent thought about it. A FW plex is for FW players, to PVP within the context of a permanent factionalized war dec, exercise sov mechanics and earn FW specific LP.


Translated to english;

The other kids can't play with my toys! Cause they won't play by my rules!

One word: Sandbox.

Deal with it.


One word: Fail.


I think you'll find the one word was 'Sandbox' but hey I'm not one to mock the reading comprehension of someone who is obviously gameplay impaired already Bear

I have deliberately developed an air of cynicism that I originally intended to make me appear somewhat louche and caddish but actually comes across as irritable hostility combined with the unspoken threat of sudden violence.....
UghFuuuuuu
Doomheim
#76 - 2013-02-22 21:51:04 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Or don't engage neutrals, if you don't want the sec hit. Therefore avoiding special treatment where is is not required, or necessary.


A neutral in a FW plex gains NOTHING from being the plex other than pvp (the singular rat drops very bad loot), therefore anyone in a plex thats not FW is there to shoot you.

why wait to be shot and killed rather than make the obvious decision to run/range/fight before the inevitable tackle comes.



A pilot in a combat ship in a belt gains NOTHING from being the belt other than pvp (the singular rat drops very bad loot), therefore anyone in a belt thats not a miner is there to shoot you.

why wait to be shot and killed rather than make the obvious decision to run/range/fight before the inevitable tackle comes.
2manno Asp
Death By Design
#77 - 2013-02-22 22:00:20 UTC
Vincent R'lyeh wrote:
2manno Asp wrote:
Kim Lesley Hartman wrote:
2manno Asp wrote:
Seems more like you last 2 havent thought about it. A FW plex is for FW players, to PVP within the context of a permanent factionalized war dec, exercise sov mechanics and earn FW specific LP.


Translated to english;

The other kids can't play with my toys! Cause they won't play by my rules!

One word: Sandbox.

Deal with it.


One word: Fail.


I think you'll find the one word was 'Sandbox' but hey I'm not one to mock the reading comprehension of someone who is obviously gameplay impaired already Bear


nope, it was FAIL. as in you fail to understand the term sandbox as it applies here.

and hey, i don't need to thow out an insult, you've already embarrassed yourself.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#78 - 2013-02-22 22:47:31 UTC
2manno Asp wrote:
Vincent R'lyeh wrote:
2manno Asp wrote:
Kim Lesley Hartman wrote:
2manno Asp wrote:
Seems more like you last 2 havent thought about it. A FW plex is for FW players, to PVP within the context of a permanent factionalized war dec, exercise sov mechanics and earn FW specific LP.


Translated to english;

The other kids can't play with my toys! Cause they won't play by my rules!

One word: Sandbox.

Deal with it.


One word: Fail.


I think you'll find the one word was 'Sandbox' but hey I'm not one to mock the reading comprehension of someone who is obviously gameplay impaired already Bear


nope, it was FAIL. as in you fail to understand the term sandbox as it applies here.

and hey, i don't need to thow out an insult, you've already embarrassed yourself.
Please enlighten us, how does sandbox apply here?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#79 - 2013-02-22 22:49:45 UTC
2manno Asp wrote:


this post is one of those options.
No. Your OP seeks to get a special amendment to the rules. That isn't an option.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#80 - 2013-02-22 22:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Mag's wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Ak'athra J'ador wrote:
Agree with OP and I live in FW space but am nuetral.

Any fool can see how silly it is that I can enter a plex and shoot first or wait in a plex expecting the same.

And special treatment Mag's? LOL! If you don't think groups/sections of space are all treated differently, then you still don't get EVE at all.
I get Eve. It seems many special snowflake FW players, have problems in that area.

null and wspace is offtopic since crimewatch is turned off. If it would be turned off in plexes too this thread would not exist
That's the point. If you don't want to deal with crimewatch penalties, move to either null or WH space. Blink


you still don't get it. Penalties are fine unless the wrong party receives them. This thread points out a problem with crimewatch which can be fixed, you are the only one who thinks removal of crimewatch is the solution. It is not. Leaving lowsec would not fix the problem.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value