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Gold Farming? I Taut I Taw A Puddytat!
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Leon Ronuken
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-02-22 15:15:42 UTC
As a new person to Eve, it is not without some trepidation that I post and thereby expose myself to the all-encompassing critiques of the veterans who read and post on these fora.

Last night in Hjortur, during a period of low users, I came upon a belt which had about 12 Retrievers and a few Ventures. Each one of the ships had a ship name beginning with B. All of the ships appeared to be stripping the belt in a systematic manner, and many of the belts in the rest of the system were already completely stripped. None of the ships had a corporate tag. Apart from one person in one other belt in the system at the time, there were no other players in the system. I lingered in the belt observing this operation for several minutes.

This seemed quite odd to me. After a brief chat with another player, we speculated that this might be a "gold farming" operation - in which either bots or persons hired over the internet acquire in-game resources and transform that into real money. In Eve, this would, it seems, be a matter of massive, systematic mining to sell the ore for ISK, buy plex with the ISK, and then sell the plex for real money (at a discount from CCP prices, no doubt). With a large fleet of high capacity mining ships, this doesn't seem all that difficult.

About 5 minutes after departing the system, and on the conclusion of my brief chat with a friend, I returned to the belt to record the names of the ships and submit some kind of report on the activity to CCP. The entire fleet had disappeared, save for 2 mining drones abandoned. A few searches through the belts turned up nothing.

I don't know quite what to make of this, or what to do, so I am opening this event and phenomena up for general discussion. I feel that such uses of the Eve game are not only a violation of the EULA, but also have the potential of degrading the enjoyment and use of the game by *normal* players - though Eve's normal is quite expansive as we all know.

Very interested in the observations and comments of the vets. Thanks.

Kate stark
#2 - 2013-02-22 15:16:44 UTC
sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Leon Ronuken
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-02-22 15:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Leon Ronuken
Kate stark wrote:
sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat.


Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes?
Kate stark
#4 - 2013-02-22 15:19:47 UTC
Leon Ronuken wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat.


Can you run 12 ships at once?


10 seconds per ships is more than enough time for me to drag and drop ore, and restart lasers. so yes, i can.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2013-02-22 15:21:59 UTC
If they're in a tight ball, you can do something about it with just a few smartbomb fitted battleships.

I mean, it affects you enough to make you post on the forums, so why not scratch the itch?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Leon Ronuken
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-02-22 15:23:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Leon Ronuken
Abrazzar wrote:
If they're in a tight ball, you can do something about it with just a few smartbomb fitted battleships.

I mean, it affects you enough to make you post on the forums, so why not scratch the itch?


My personal skill and game mechanics familiarity level make this problematic for me at present. However, that was part of my discussion with the friend I mentioned in the OP.

It doesn't affect me per se; if this operation was a gold farming operation it affects the whole community in some way, does it not?
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-02-22 15:25:27 UTC
Leon Ronuken wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat.


Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes?


Multi-boxing is allowed, Botting is not.

If I were to multi-Box I would name all of my slave alts the same with a unique serial number. They would all get Officer Detonation Collars to. Have to keep them slaves in line.
Whitehound
#8 - 2013-02-22 15:51:49 UTC
One can warp an entire fleet with a single command.

Many players then mine ore to pay for their next PLEX. It is often enough to run a second account. Some players then cannot get enough and create more and more accounts, which they use to buy PLEX for further accounts, and so on.

There is a player in the system Agal, who has managed to do this with something like 100 ice-mining ships. Yes, that is 100 accounts for one player ... Roll

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-02-22 15:55:06 UTC
I'm still not sure what this has to do with an ill-enunciated yellow cartoon bird.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Leon Ronuken
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-02-22 15:57:55 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
I'm still not sure what this has to do with an ill-enunciated yellow cartoon bird.


What do you have against Sylvester ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Taw_a_Putty_Tat
Whitehound
#11 - 2013-02-22 16:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
De'Veldrin wrote:
I'm still not sure what this has to do with an ill-enunciated yellow cartoon bird.

Birds sing and snitches snitch.

Which reminds me... One can win a PLEX for a successful report on a bot aka "PLEX for snitches".

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#12 - 2013-02-22 16:01:18 UTC
Fly to belt with 1 catalyst per barge, salvage wrecks, instant profits from someone else botting!

...
Leon Ronuken
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-02-22 16:01:54 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
One can warp an entire fleet with a single command.

Many players then mine ore to pay for their next PLEX. It is often enough to run a second account. Some players then cannot get enough and create more and more accounts, which they use to buy PLEX for further accounts, and so on.

There is a player in the system Agal, who has managed to do this with something like 100 ice-mining ships. Yes, that is 100 accounts for one player ... Roll


This seems like the most likely explanation. However, the part that probably confused me the most was why the fleet disappeared a few minutes after I showed up. If the player was doing nothing counter-EULA, then why the flight? Not ruling out coinkydinky end of session, but the belt was still half full when I returned.

Conclusion thus far : nothing to get in a twist about.

Further question : Best way to tell if some sort of operation is bot-driven, or not?
Wodensun
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-02-22 16:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Wodensun
He might have been using ISKboxer and simply have been multiboxing most of us run more then one client at the same time this however does not make us bots nor does it mean that we're gold farming

Also.. WoW is > that way.

Also Epic multibox rig...

Do not give me likes them 101 likes arent a accident...
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#15 - 2013-02-22 16:06:54 UTC
The best way to tell if someone is botting?

You gank them, watch their POD, if it stays around for a bit, warp to and from station in said POD. Then there's a good chance they're botting.....or just plain ********!

...
Whitehound
#16 - 2013-02-22 16:09:43 UTC
Leon Ronuken wrote:
Further question : Best way to tell if some sort of operation is bot-driven, or not?

If it is done excessively like 23/7 and when the ships repeatedly show a failing behaviour, which you just would not expect any human player to do. For example, when the same ship warps to the same spot again and again, but does nothing else (i.e. the asteroids are out of reach). A human player will eventually stop and recognize the mistake whereas a bot might not and thus hangs itself in a loop.

Other than this is it practically impossible for a normal player to tell a smart bot apart from a stupid and boring play style.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-02-22 16:15:19 UTC
Personally Im against of the mindless gank, but in my cards.. this is boting. The fact that CCP is allowing this, is sad. Is why I'm "neutral" with James. I hate when they gank a lonely miner, but I'm 100% for it when they gank a real bot. It really **** me off seeing that CCP is allowing this massive multi boxing just for money.. like a single person who is allowed to control a 100 account just because this means 100 plex sold.

So here is the question.. let ease on the rules and ban multi boxing, or FFA and let ease on ganking anybody.. no matter if is a single account or not. I vote for banning multi boxing, also banning Jita spam :/
Emma d'Acques
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-02-22 16:16:01 UTC
Leon,

It could be that you saw a player with just too much time on his hands and/or RL money to burn/ISK to burn.

Not all such operations are necessarily bots, it could very well have been a legitimate player.
If you suspect botting is involved, the best thing you can do is linger a while, observe them, and note down any warp-outs/warp-ins.
If the timing is always "perfect", or near-perfect, then that is good indicator of a bot.

Another thing you can try, is what Azami Neinyrall suggested, suicide gank them, return to the belt, and watch the pod's behaviour.
If the pod continues to warp in and out, on a somewhat fixed schedule, then you are dealing with a bot, and you should report them as such.

You could also try and get the attention of one (or all) of the pilots via private conversation and/or local chat.
And if all else fails, bump them, keep bumping them, and if there is somebody behind the keyboard, they WILL get angry with you, and ask you to stop bumping them.
As an aside, bumping miners can be a lot of fun too :)

I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.
Leon Ronuken
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-02-22 16:39:17 UTC
Emma d'Acques wrote:
Leon,


As an aside, bumping miners can be a lot of fun too :)


Like.

Even though that's what I am ;)

Thanks for the comprehensive answer ;)
Mire Stoude
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-02-22 16:43:37 UTC
What you saw were ghost mining barges.
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