Crime & Punishment

Please explain to me how ganking is not pvp.

Player vs player. am I not versing another player who is afk or botting but still a player none the less?

As a peaceful industrialist I can attest to the fact that suicide ganking is a myth.

Most or all of my victims actually try to get away but a friendly bump usually gets me enough time.

I think he was being sarcastic

I am at 3.3M SP and can solo gank retrievers/covetors up to 0.6, untanked mack/hulk in 0.5 without problems.

About 60-70% of the costs are covered by recovering the leftovers of my targets and my ship, the rest is done via New Order reimbursements.

RS

Noob.

Player versus player does not mean fair and balanced, or that the other party has a good chance at fighting back, it means what it says on the tin: One player doing something that has an effect on another player. Simple.

Trying to play dumb semantic games to claim it isn't PVP is something I consider a bit dishonest. Ripard knows that if he flat out said he's against certain types of PVP he'd be a laughing stock, so instead he tried to claim it wasn't PVP (and was instead more like **** or slavery) to try and make it seem like his disagreeing with it was more valid, and to try and paint it as something which everyone should inherently be against.

I never said it should be fair and balanced, or that the other party should have much chance of successfully fighting back, just that fighting back should be an option, which it isn't for most suicide ganks. More than that, it's that suicide ganking as a whole usually involves going out of your way to ensure that it isn't an option for your victim.



I don't think that's anywhere near simple; by that definition running L4 missions solo is PvP as the ISK generated from it has an (incredibly minor, but still present) effect on all players via inflation and the loot/modules from drops and from cashing out LPs have effects on other players when being sold by competing with other sellers and providing equipment to other players. Likewise, by that definition AFK mining is also PvP since it has an effect on resource prices for other miners as well as PLEX prices for players. Those are just a couple of examples where the effect is primarily adverse, I'm not even listing beneficial effects even though your definition would seem to include them.



I'm just stating my opinion; I don't consider ganking to be PvP, that is why. I freely admit it comes down to semantics, but it's still what I think.



Actually the line "Ganking isn't PvP and never was" was from a comment someone else made to one of Ripard's blog posts, not Ripard himself. He chose it as his comment of the week for that week, hence why that line was in the title for that COTW post. Unless I drastically misread the posts in question, their context was never purely about suicide ganking or all non-consensual PvP, it was specifically about veteran players using non-consensual PvP, whether wardecs or suicide ganks, against newer players for effectively risk-free fights for them that ruined the game for the victims.

But ensuring the other party has "the option" of fighting back is a bit unrealistic. How would you even approach ensuring everyone has that option? What can a mining barge or freighter do against combat ships? What can my lone combat ship do against a 100 man fleet that cynos into the system I'm in? Sometimes you just don't have much of an option. I don't see that as a problem, some situations are unfair and you can't do anything about them. The vast majority of players learn this quickly and simply live with it. Again, I just kind of don't see this as being an issue at all.



I think it IS that simple, and I've long argued that all those things are PVP - usually in arguments against the "we [PVErs] weren't doing nuthin to nobody, we should be left alone!" stuff that constantly pops up on the forums. EVE is a PVP game. There is no PVE only server or areas. It's all PVP, baby.

1.4 million SP.

I fund it through a mix of corp reimbursement and salvage. I don't make a profit. I'm not rolling in ISK. But who needs ISK when you have camaraderie and lols?