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Theory on the new Amarr lineup.

First post
Author
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#1 - 2013-02-21 23:54:37 UTC
If we look at what's been done to the Amarr ship list over the last few patches a trend quickly emerges:

Dragoon = drones, half turrets, half missiles.
Arbitrator = drones, half turrets, half missiles.
Prophecy = drones, half turrets, half missiles.

Now the question is: Why is this being done? Didn't Amarr ships always revolve around lasers and nothing else? Well, yes they did - and it sucked! Weak tracking, weak damage, massive capacitor drain (and on active armor tank ships, no less), and confined to only EM & Thermal damage. If you saw an Amarr ship coming you knew that you could totally ignore all Kinetic & Explosive resists and just pack in the EM & Thermal and call it done.

Aha... but not any more! Now yes you could always put cannons on your Arbitrator (a recommended tactic, btw) and you can still do the same with the same with the Dragoon and new model Prophecy (again, a recommended tactic - save your cap for armor reps), until recently your non-laser options as Amarr were very, very limited.

But now we see three dedicated drone boats, all split between turrets and missiles, and each without any gun bonuses so there is nothing stopping you from sticking artillery or blasters on them. What does the Amarr gain from this? Variety. You can load down any of these ships with Thermal drones, then stick some rail guns in set to do Kinetic damage and top it off with some Explosive missiles.

Meaning they are in no way confined to that limited EM & Thermal Only prison that all the classic Amarr laser boats have been locked into so far. And you'll notice that a number of other Amarr ships have been getting the missile launcher refits over time as well; even the Apocalypse now has the option to stick a couple of missile batteries on there if the pilot wants to.

All very refreshing changes indeed!

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

GordonO
BURN EDEN
#2 - 2013-02-22 00:46:27 UTC
Question is which BS is going to join this new line up? Just hope its not the geddon..

... What next ??

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#3 - 2013-02-22 01:22:32 UTC
it's going to be the Geddon. At least you'll have 5 heavy drones.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-02-22 02:18:33 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
If we look at what's been done to the Amarr ship list over the last few patches a trend quickly emerges:

Dragoon = drones, half turrets, half missiles.
Arbitrator = drones, half turrets, half missiles.
Prophecy = drones, half turrets, half missiles.

Now the question is: Why is this being done? Didn't Amarr ships always revolve around lasers and nothing else? Well, yes they did - and it sucked! Weak tracking, weak damage, massive capacitor drain (and on active armor tank ships, no less), and confined to only EM & Thermal damage. If you saw an Amarr ship coming you knew that you could totally ignore all Kinetic & Explosive resists and just pack in the EM & Thermal and call it done.

Aha... but not any more! Now yes you could always put cannons on your Arbitrator (a recommended tactic, btw) and you can still do the same with the same with the Dragoon and new model Prophecy (again, a recommended tactic - save your cap for armor reps), until recently your non-laser options as Amarr were very, very limited.

But now we see three dedicated drone boats, all split between turrets and missiles, and each without any gun bonuses so there is nothing stopping you from sticking artillery or blasters on them. What does the Amarr gain from this? Variety. You can load down any of these ships with Thermal drones, then stick some rail guns in set to do Kinetic damage and top it off with some Explosive missiles.

Meaning they are in no way confined to that limited EM & Thermal Only prison that all the classic Amarr laser boats have been locked into so far. And you'll notice that a number of other Amarr ships have been getting the missile launcher refits over time as well; even the Apocalypse now has the option to stick a couple of missile batteries on there if the pilot wants to.

All very refreshing changes indeed!


Yeah, now you get the freshly nerfed missiles and drones. Glad you liked it. No scorch for you!Lol

Now, if only they would implement scorch for the rest of us...
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-02-22 05:24:40 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Now, if only they would implement scorch for the rest of us...

Yeah, let's give lasers only real selling point to everything else, brilliant idea.

Trinkets friend wrote:
it's going to be the Geddon. At least you'll have 5 heavy drones.

This is probably true, although there is a possibility of another outcome. CCP told that they are fine with Amarr BS performance mostly, with Geddon in particular. That may mean we aren't getting significant changes there.

That concerns me tbh because in so many cases when CCP buffed ships across the class except the ship they considered fine it ended up with every one of those ships becoming useful, except that very "fine" ship. Let's hope Amarr BSs won't sink completely.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-02-22 08:05:06 UTC
I don't want my majestic space penis to turn into a droneboat =<

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Uppsy Daisy
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-02-22 08:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Uppsy Daisy
According to CCP Fozzie's CCP Ytterbium's last statements, the Amarr Battleship lineup will get minimal balancing changes as they are all in pretty good shape.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530

Armageddon: this ship is performing well at the time being, and thus we have little reason to alter it.
Apocalypse: is behaving well at the moment, so there is little point in changing it.
Abbadon: a nice ship with fine purpose in fleets and large gangs.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2013-02-22 09:52:05 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
According to CCP Fozzie's last statements, the Amarr Battleship lineup will get minimal balancing changes as they are all in pretty good shape.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530

Armageddon: this ship is performing well at the time being, and thus we have little reason to alter it.
Apocalypse: is behaving well at the moment, so there is little point in changing it.
Abbadon: a nice ship with fine purpose in fleets and large gangs.


Hello there, that blog ain't from Fozzie though P

But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-02-22 10:07:35 UTC
Hmmm. I wonder why all the races are using each others weapon systems more and more with each patch?

I'm all for giving amarr more variety.. but something about gallente not being the "drone race" and caldari not being the "missile race" anymore kinda bothers me.

Makes ya wonder what the game is going to look like in a year or two.
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-02-22 10:08:25 UTC
Oops, sorry.Oops

Keep up the most excellent work you guys are doing, you are really revitalising the game.

.
.
I made a dev cross Sad
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-02-22 10:27:34 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Hmmm. I wonder why all the races are using each others weapon systems more and more with each patch?

I'm all for giving amarr more variety.. but something about gallente not being the "drone race" and caldari not being the "missile race" anymore kinda bothers me.

Makes ya wonder what the game is going to look like in a year or two.


Its going to look like a bunch of the same ships on diffrent hulls with the only racial trait being their tank type. That balances the game right?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-02-22 10:30:43 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
According to CCP Fozzie's last statements, the Amarr Battleship lineup will get minimal balancing changes as they are all in pretty good shape.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530

Armageddon: this ship is performing well at the time being, and thus we have little reason to alter it.
Apocalypse: is behaving well at the moment, so there is little point in changing it.
Abbadon: a nice ship with fine purpose in fleets and large gangs.


Hello there, that blog ain't from Fozzie though P

But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).



Yay Battleships on the work !!! My favorites !!!


removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#13 - 2013-02-22 10:45:49 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Hmmm. I wonder why all the races are using each others weapon systems more and more with each patch?

I'm all for giving amarr more variety.. but something about gallente not being the "drone race" and caldari not being the "missile race" anymore kinda bothers me.


The current theme seems to involve making it somewhat harder to cross-train races, so a little more flexibility within each race is probably a sensible idea, and certainly if it involves making obsolete ships usable.

In any case, Gallente were the drone race no more than Caldari was the missile race. You're imagining pigeonholes that didn't really exist, or exaggerating them at least.
Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
#14 - 2013-02-22 11:18:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Calapine
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).


Hey Ytterbium, does that mean there will be no attempt to preserve the iconic Minmatar split weapon ships?

Whether by merging the missile/projectile bonuses into a single one (so as not 'waste' one compared to other hulls), or by....well....you are the Dev. P

Pain is short, and joy is eternal.

Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-02-22 11:30:24 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).


Hey, Ytterbium. I had assumed Armaggedon might get the drone boat treatment - while I'm impressed with Amarr drone boats, I'm happy you're not considering it at this time, as I feel the hybrid nature of the ship already seems to work well. That said, a few questions, if you're willing to answer:

1. Right now, Amarr ships are focused on lasers and drones in T1, while they mainly use lasers and missiles in T2. Are there any plans to introduce more drone ships in T2? In that regard, are you happy with how Khanid missile boats perform?

2. Have you ever considered Khanid Abaddon, i.e. heavily armor tanked missile battleship? :)

and last but not least:

3. What happened to the Golden Banana aka the Space Machinegun aka the Apocalypse remodelling? Is it still planned? May we get a preview? /puppyeyes
Taoist Dragon
SHAVED
#16 - 2013-02-22 11:41:56 UTC
Amarr have always had an excellent drone ship in the arbitrator hull lineup. Often beating the vexor. This is nothing new and just expanding the concept.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Mr Noo
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-02-22 12:15:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Noo
Katran Luftschreck wrote:


Now the question is: Why is this being done? Didn't Amarr ships always revolve around lasers and nothing else? Well, yes they did - and it sucked! Weak tracking, weak damage, massive capacitor drain (and on active armor tank ships, no less), and confined to only EM & Thermal damage.


It looks like CCP don't wont to recognized laser weapons problems, and just give amarr new drone boat.

If I liked drones I would choose Gallente ships.

I would prefer new T1 ship with optimal range bonus than drone boat.

All very refreshing changes indeed![/quote]
feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#18 - 2013-02-22 12:28:03 UTC
Calapine wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).


Hey Ytterbium, does that mean there will be no attempt to preserve the iconic Minmatar split weapon ships?

Whether by merging the missile/projectile bonuses into a single one (so as not 'waste' one compared to other hulls), or by....well....you are the Dev. P



It looks like minnie split weapons now means a turret line of ships and a missile line of ships instead of single ships with split weapons. Personally I like that.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-02-22 12:32:41 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).


Does that mean Battleships won't get much changes except for the Typhoon ?

Some battleships are in dire need of changes, like the Armageddon's CPU buff, the Raven's much needed PWG, Capacitor and tank buff, or the Apocalypse need for some revamp as it's currently not used much (No one flies the Apocalypse, while everyone flies the Navy Apocalypse).

Prez21
D-sync
#20 - 2013-02-22 12:33:40 UTC
Andracin wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Hmmm. I wonder why all the races are using each others weapon systems more and more with each patch?

I'm all for giving amarr more variety.. but something about gallente not being the "drone race" and caldari not being the "missile race" anymore kinda bothers me.

Makes ya wonder what the game is going to look like in a year or two.


Its going to look like a bunch of the same ships on diffrent hulls with the only racial trait being their tank type. That balances the game right?


It does seem to be slightly tipping this way, so many people whining about there races ships and how they cant compete that CCP seems to be slowly turning a lot of ships to be exactly the same just with different hulls.
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