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Synopsis: MD Forums

First post
Author
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#21 - 2013-02-18 09:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
MD is one of those forums where you find mountains of drivel but sometimes you find the diamonds inside it.

MD changed my life, if it was not for what I have learned from MD I'd be begging under a bridge: in my country there's no state welfare for the poor and unemployed.

Instead MD led me to learn enough that I could start trading in RL and later to contact people in RL (mostly one, a trader) that changed my life, twice.
And in turn, these people in RL, made me understand I was going a wrong way and helped me working on some of my many, big personality flaws. I still have them but at least now I am conscious of them and am working hard to defeat them.

I know I am just 1 little internet guy with no relevance for any of you, but it's still one real life saved from misery and thus MD has been a worthwhile project.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-02-18 09:31:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
flakeys wrote:
Have a look at general discussion , then visit CAOD and on the way there go by crime and punishment.


Now enlighten me why MD forum would be SO much different ?

GD is (and has always been) a very mixed bag, the only major change in quality that comes to mind is Akita reducing his posting frequency. But accidentally getting Sreegs to declare cache reading illegal (when my sole intention was to taunt him a bit) is something that can only happen in GD or devblog threads. That alone makes GD worth skimming.

CAOD is completely dead (James 315 wrote a good TMC article on this, blaming CCP's "no alts" policy).

C&P is certainly not the best it has ever been (Lana gone What?) but still in pretty decent shape.

.

flakeys
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-02-18 09:53:59 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Have a look at general discussion , then visit CAOD and on the way there go by crime and punishment.


Now enlighten me why MD forum would be SO much different ?

GD is (and has always been) a very mixed bag, the only major change in quality that comes to mind is Akita reducing his posting frequency. But accidentally getting Sreegs to declare cache reading illegal (when my sole intention was to taunt him a bit) is something that can only happen in GD or devblog threads. That alone makes GD worth skimming.

CAOD is completely dead (James 315 wrote a good TMC article on this, blaming CCP's "no alts" policy).

C&P is certainly not the best it has ever been (Lana gone What?) but still in pretty decent shape.



For me crime and punsihment is the only one who has kept it's old ''standards'' but that simply is because those 'standards'' where allready quite low.Trolling is not an option there it's a MUST.In regards to MD standards they changed over time but so did the playerbase.If it's changed for good or bad depends on how you look at it.Less indepth discussions but also less '' i am the market guru knowall''-threads.

GD has gone downhill ever since the ''riots'' a year ago and the same goes for the other subforums.

Everything changes over time ... just go with the flow or stop being involved is how i usually look at it.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-02-18 13:34:52 UTC
SinTeryx wrote:
CCP regulates....


Your post is nonresponsive.


Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-02-18 14:11:45 UTC
I used the MD forums as a launching platform, in a 1 time deal, to establish a healthy income. The amount of shitposting, negativity and blahness really does suck, but the gems who hang around here is what keeps me coming back. We're lucky to have each and every one of them.



Plus, it's very intriguing to me to watch people who destroy their reputations, existing friendships and new relationships over 2,5 or 10 billion isk. In a game where so many of us spend more than 20 hours a week, I don't see what could matter more than the community. And, to ruin your possible role in that community over what equates to a couple hundred RL dollars. Makes me wonder what these people do to any RL friends they -might- have...
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#26 - 2013-02-18 14:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Books
SinTeryx wrote:
If you don't enjoy it then why do you come here?

I understand you are tired of the many IPO's/Bond scams. Not happy making 2% on you're investment and are probably too lazy to read the decent threads....so I ask again, why are you even here?

It is how this section of the forums has always worked, if you don't like it go to the carebare general forums and have some fun, after all this is a forum and the game is actually played elsewhere.


On the contrary, I agree with the OP to an extent, BUT

the OP simply hasn't grasped EvE online gameplay concept of a sandbox with no rules, therefore OP scamming is a legitimate in and out of game activity.

(editedV)
I also want to note, iv used MD quite extensively, its entertaining and was once useful for a short term loan which kept my merchants from failscading due to a flash investment that didn't go exactly to plan, AKA needed 3 more days then I planned, what cost me 110M isk saved me from losing over 600M ISK from regular ingame activity. (thanks to grendal again).

Trolling is quite entertaining because to be honest, grinding ISK day after day, this is how we kind of socialize.
We want to socialize but we dont want to talk about whats on our minds, so we just entertain each other, like you are doing right now, in reality your trolling scamers.

Every ones not out to get you OP, fact of the matter is, every ones just looking out forthemselves.
Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-02-18 19:44:59 UTC
..Kara Books.

I do get the sandbox with no rules. What I don't get, now and for a long time, is why pilots opt into these risky bonds/ipos.

Would you agree that it is a scammers market? Scamming is a zero risk venture.

My way to combat this "scammers market" is to simply not invest. If everyone did the same, there wouldn't be much MD.

I would like to see a change in how Bonds and IPO's are ran, in either gameplay mechanics or player driven initiatives. I also would like to see some substance injected into MD.
Scion Lex
Horizon Logistics
#28 - 2013-02-21 23:07:33 UTC
Didn't read most of this crap. Never do really.

The MD Forums are a great place to figure out what NOT to do. Its really that simple. The advice I have seen offered here has never been something you couldn't look up yourself. You come here to recon what 'Market types' are doing for entertainment. I came here to watch the fine art of scamming the public out of its money, but I don't participate. Its funny to read. Every so often there is a gem of information...but its extremely rare.
Scion Lex
Horizon Logistics
#29 - 2013-02-21 23:13:09 UTC
Syds Sinclair wrote:
..Kara Books.

I do get the sandbox with no rules. What I don't get, now and for a long time, is why pilots opt into these risky bonds/ipos.

Would you agree that it is a scammers market? Scamming is a zero risk venture.

My way to combat this "scammers market" is to simply not invest. If everyone did the same, there wouldn't be much MD.

I would like to see a change in how Bonds and IPO's are ran, in either gameplay mechanics or player driven initiatives. I also would like to see some substance injected into MD.


Why do you want to see a change? For what purpose? CCP is NOT going to regulate a secondary market. I would go as far as to say they don't want one. Honestly, if someone was really going to run a fund they wouldn't go to the public for the money, they would go to people they know. Personally, I would find public investors to be a pain in the ass. Plus, who has time for all that "rep building"? Nothing builds trust faster then flying with someone, talking to them on coms or in my case, knowing them IRL. If you can't get your friends to invest in you then you probably shouldn't be running a fund.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#30 - 2013-02-22 06:35:25 UTC
Scion Lex wrote:
Syds Sinclair wrote:
..Kara Books.

I do get the sandbox with no rules. What I don't get, now and for a long time, is why pilots opt into these risky bonds/ipos.

Would you agree that it is a scammers market? Scamming is a zero risk venture.

My way to combat this "scammers market" is to simply not invest. If everyone did the same, there wouldn't be much MD.

I would like to see a change in how Bonds and IPO's are ran, in either gameplay mechanics or player driven initiatives. I also would like to see some substance injected into MD.


Why do you want to see a change? For what purpose? CCP is NOT going to regulate a secondary market. I would go as far as to say they don't want one. Honestly, if someone was really going to run a fund they wouldn't go to the public for the money, they would go to people they know. Personally, I would find public investors to be a pain in the ass. Plus, who has time for all that "rep building"? Nothing builds trust faster then flying with someone, talking to them on coms or in my case, knowing them IRL. If you can't get your friends to invest in you then you probably shouldn't be running a fund.


I suppose this is your farewell to MD? Because you have basically listed as negative most of what MD is about.
Ziggs Enaka
Zerulian Luxuries Inc.
#31 - 2013-02-22 06:48:06 UTC
When I first started, I came to the MD forums for a loan. Instead I was given good advice and several generous donations from the players that frequent these pages.

Nowadays I browse a bit in hopes that I might learn something new.
Emma d'Acques
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-02-22 12:26:36 UTC
OP,

When I first posted something to MD, I had been lurking a long time beforehand.
My first post was asking about collateral evaluation, AFTER having searched through the MD section AND the sticky with handy links.

Some people make a new thread, asking for information that is already available by using the search function and the muscles in their index finger(s).
This generates the answer that the poster can easily find the info themselves.

On the matter of Bond/IPO Offering folks being called scammers:
It's a sad fact of life, especially on MD, that a multitude of people offering up Bonds/IPO's turn out to be scammers, some of them very elaborate and good looking.
MD has always had the habit of ripping apart any and all Bonds/IPO's/Loans, before anyone invests in them. After all, the ISK invested has been earned in various ways, and is not easily parted with.

Why do I lurk in MD then?
Because I like this section of the forum, as there are some mighty good threads to be found, and some of them are just plain hilarious.
For those who are looking to learn, then there are multiple gems hidden away amongs the threads on other pages, one has but to find them.

Would I like to see a change in MD?
Not necessarily, but if I had the power to enforce 1 change, it would be in seeing Bonds/IPO's offered specifically to newer traders, so they can get into the MD Metagame, and hopefully learn something on the way.

Personally, I've had a small amount of loans through MD, all of them without collateral, and I had no issue in finding investors in general.
Only once did I not see a loan get through, that because I retracted it.

On collateralized Bonds/IPO's/Loans:
Small loans with no collateral can be filled quite fast on MD, while bigger ones then to take more time, and require collateral.
Would you risk investing 10B ISK into an uncollateralised loan though?
I wouldn't, I'd like to know that there is a back up in place, should the offer crash and burn.

As a last point, I'd like to just say the following about Rep Grinding:
People do get accused of Rep Grinding, and I think that every accusation is founded.
People that alraedy have a good rep need to keep that rep up.
People needing rep, can only gain this by posting...
So, in a way, every post is someone grinding rep :)

I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#33 - 2013-02-22 14:22:03 UTC
Emma d'Acques wrote:

As a last point, I'd like to just say the following about Rep Grinding:
People do get accused of Rep Grinding, and I think that every accusation is founded.
People that alraedy have a good rep need to keep that rep up.
People needing rep, can only gain this by posting...
So, in a way, every post is someone grinding rep :)


I agree with a lot of what you say except this.

It's the same reason why some people find a job tedious while others would never stop because they do what they always loved to do. Likewise some guys (me included) love to find new things or do research and similar and then post it on MD.
They don't need to "grind rep", when it's just a logical followup for their actions.

Rep from those who count is earned, not grinded.
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#34 - 2013-02-22 17:56:55 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Emma d'Acques wrote:

As a last point, I'd like to just say the following about Rep Grinding:
People do get accused of Rep Grinding, and I think that every accusation is founded.
People that alraedy have a good rep need to keep that rep up.
People needing rep, can only gain this by posting...
So, in a way, every post is someone grinding rep :)


I agree with a lot of what you say except this.

It's the same reason why some people find a job tedious while others would never stop because they do what they always loved to do. Likewise some guys (me included) love to find new things or do research and similar and then post it on MD.
They don't need to "grind rep", when it's just a logical followup for their actions.

Rep from those who count is earned, not grinded.


I don't even need rep.

Do you even rep?

yes

Emma d'Acques
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-02-22 18:09:55 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:

I don't even need rep.
Do you even rep?


Depends if I have logi support or not.

On Reputation Grinding:
VV said it all: Reputation is earned, not grinded.

However, to get Reputation (be it good or bad) one has to post and act.
Otherwise, a Reputation will be impossible to obtain.
That's why I think that every post is some form of Reputation grind.

I could be all wrong though Ugh

I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#36 - 2013-02-22 18:23:42 UTC
Emma d'Acques wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:

I don't even need rep.
Do you even rep?


Depends if I have logi support or not.

On Reputation Grinding:
VV said it all: Reputation is earned, not grinded.

However, to get Reputation (be it good or bad) one has to post and act.
Otherwise, a Reputation will be impossible to obtain.
That's why I think that every post is some form of Reputation grind.

I could be all wrong though Ugh


Don't worry. I am all wrong every day

yes

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#37 - 2013-02-22 18:37:36 UTC
Emma d'Acques wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:

I don't even need rep.
Do you even rep?


Depends if I have logi support or not.

On Reputation Grinding:
VV said it all: Reputation is earned, not grinded.

However, to get Reputation (be it good or bad) one has to post and act.
Otherwise, a Reputation will be impossible to obtain.
That's why I think that every post is some form of Reputation grind.

I could be all wrong though Ugh


Hmm, I think every word one says or types everywhere forms "reputation".
At this point I'd just call it "forming a relation with the community".

Why? I talk with a number of guys in game, usually on the SCC-Lounge chat.
I have been contacted by guys for 3rd party work who never heard of me on MD, they just don't read it MD to begin with.
They just got suggested my name by a friend who I don't have an idea how he heard of me.

A sizable portion of what I do never ends written on MD as well, i.e. I don't recall ever having posted a corporation or alliance audit here, they tend to want to have their stuff kept confidential.

So, while "fake-rep grinding" posting may have indeed its effect, in the end having active relationships in game is also quite important.

P.S. I am talking about my personal situation because it's the only one I can talk about in an informed way.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2013-02-22 19:47:48 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

And in turn, these people in RL, made me understand I was going a wrong way and helped me working on some of my many, big personality flaws. I still have them but at least now I am conscious of them and am working hard to defeat them.

if you'd like I can give you a little more help on this front

specifically i would like you to work on your openness to magical thinking and belief you can divine the future through sorcery and the entrails of graphs

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-02-22 19:50:30 UTC
MD has shown me the perils of country-hopping to avoid taxes

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

You What
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#40 - 2013-02-22 19:54:06 UTC
I am a long time occasional lurker. I haven't noticed any change in MD since 2006, maybe apart new faces appearing and old faces fading away.

I don't necessarily agree with the tone of the OP but I would like to see MD evolve past trolling and IPO/Bond/Scam offers.

I mean if there is a subforum that is capable of doing so, it's this one.

The problem with MD as I see it is the fact that there are people around who have been playing for couple of years and got somewhat rich. Same as in real life, having money makes you feel good. But it also makes you a prick.

So here we are, we've got plenty of top-quality posters, who will offer advice and information based on real research and backed with evidence. But the same people also think that they are somewhat better than others.

This has put me off posting in MD for many years.

Everyone should chill the **** out.