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Running plexes has me close to rage-quitting right now

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La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1 - 2013-02-21 09:39:27 UTC  |  Edited by: La'Krul
I really like exploration - travelling through null-sec avoiding death at every gate to probe down sites. Then running them whilst avoiding the locals who have probably already probed them out hours ago - all to experience the lottery of the loot drop. Maybe you get something awesome, getting it safely home is an adrenaline kick in itself.

Or at least I used to like exploration.

This AI change has pretty much ruined it for me. Here's an example - I probed down an 8/10 last night. Whilst I ran it, I lost 4 T2 Sentries and had to find replacements. Luckily, the only station in the region which had some was two jumps away and accessible. So, I drop 8m isk on 4 shiny new Wardens. But in the system next door I find a 40 man PL camp. I almost lose my ship just because I have to get some damn drones. (I should say - there is no way I could have saved any of these drones. I orbit my sentries at 500m and as soon as one takes aggro I pull it in and approach - still they pop sometimes before I can get them back)

But I manage to get them and I make it back to the plex. 10 minutes has been wasted. I run the rest of the plex and lose 4 more sentries. So, damn annoying. So I switch to heavies. I enter the final room and see the boss npc and so I think "I've got no sentries left, I dare not let my heavies get too far away. I'll get close to the boss and take him out first".

This I do, and suddenly the entire room warps off. So that's like 25m isk just ups and leaves the grid. Great - not only do I drop 8m worth of isk on drones, there's no isk to be made from actually running the plex. Of course the boss drops nothing and I am left pretty dispirited by the whole episode.

Anyway, the point is this. Why has CCP made these changes??? Exploring used to be fun. Now it's just an annoyance. If I stop doing pve then that means I can't afford to pvp and those are the two things I do in this game.

CCP you have lots of broken stuff in this game that needs attention - breaking the stuff that is already working nicely is simply counter-productive. Can you please just put things back to where they were - you know? Challenging but fun!

TLDR - CCP have managed to break plexes for no apparent reason
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2 - 2013-02-21 09:46:26 UTC
The warp away is a bug. The sentries popping is a feature. Is of course frustrating because you need fitting services to replenish even if you have the spares with you, which does run very counter to the concept of exploration.
Kodavor
Iz Doge Korp .
#3 - 2013-02-21 09:48:15 UTC
Quote:
Can you please just put things back to where they were - you know? Challenging but fun!


Can we please have back AoE DD's trough Cyno's ?
La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4 - 2013-02-21 09:48:39 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
The warp away is a bug. The sentries popping is a feature. Is of course frustrating because you need fitting services to replenish even if you have the spares with you, which does run very counter to the concept of exploration.




Is it confirmed as a bug? I hope so.

Yes, that's my point - exploration is supposed to encourage you to roam free independently. You can't do that tied to your nearest market hub.
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 - 2013-02-21 10:31:11 UTC
Yes, it is a bug and it is being fixed today :) Sorry for the inconvenience

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#6 - 2013-02-21 17:13:34 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, it is a bug and it is being fixed today :) Sorry for the inconvenience


You're referring to the crappy AI, I take it. Glad to hear it'll be rolled back soon!
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2013-02-21 17:14:45 UTC
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, it is a bug and it is being fixed today :) Sorry for the inconvenience


You're referring to the crappy AI, I take it. Glad to hear it'll be rolled back soon!


I was talking about the warp-away bug

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#8 - 2013-02-21 17:15:56 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, it is a bug and it is being fixed today :) Sorry for the inconvenience


You're referring to the crappy AI, I take it. Glad to hear it'll be rolled back soon!


I was talking about the warp-away bug


Ooooooooooooooooh, I see

:p
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2013-02-21 17:20:48 UTC
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, it is a bug and it is being fixed today :) Sorry for the inconvenience


You're referring to the crappy AI, I take it. Glad to hear it'll be rolled back soon!


I was talking about the warp-away bug


Ooooooooooooooooh, I see

:p



However,I hear all your problems with the new AI and I am monitoring them and we will consider making some adjustments if we feel that necessary

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
Rex Aparte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-02-21 17:21:00 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, it is a bug and it is being fixed today :) Sorry for the inconvenience


You're referring to the crappy AI, I take it. Glad to hear it'll be rolled back soon!


I was talking about the warp-away bug



I see it's in the patch notes, I haven't seen any confirmation threads that this issue is indeed take care of. Anyone have any "sauce" on this as the young people say?
La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#11 - 2013-02-21 17:43:04 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, it is a bug and it is being fixed today :) Sorry for the inconvenience


You're referring to the crappy AI, I take it. Glad to hear it'll be rolled back soon!


I was talking about the warp-away bug


Ooooooooooooooooh, I see

:p



However,I hear all your problems with the new AI and I am monitoring them and we will consider making some adjustments if we feel that necessary


Here's some feedback - I actually don't mind the concept of your drones being targeted and shot. It certainly has you managing more and it's a more active experience as you are managing cap, range to your drones, your reps, maybe targeting/repping the drones, shooting different npcs, watching your D Scan, daydreaming about loot, etc all concurrently.

However, its overkill right now. If I use sentries they will die before I can get them back because of the annoying mechanic of having to be so close to them for them to return. So if you're orbiting your 5 sentries and one starts to get shot at it could be the one that's 3000m away and by the time you get there it's popped. Using anything smaller is just pointless because if you send them off into the fray and they get targeted then you have 2 choices: (a) let them die, (b) return them (mwd goes on) and have them die even faster. The only way I can use smalls/mids now is to fly up to the target and have the drones hit them while only being 5-10km from me - that way I actually have a chance of retrieving them. But it also defeats the entire purpose of having drones - ie range

It's getting on my nerves and I have all subcap drone skills to V - God knows how less skilled players are it!

Solutions:
- Drones are immune to damage whilst returning
- Sentries either cluster much closer together/actually move to you when returning
- Drones have more hitpoints
- AI is given far worse tracking against drones
- Drones return much faster
- Or go back to the old "gaining aggro" model

Appreciate your attention though
Turelus
Utassi Security
#12 - 2013-02-21 18:00:01 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, it is a bug and it is being fixed today :) Sorry for the inconvenience

Any chance on a NPC Tracking Disruptor fix yet? or at least some more information on what (if anything) you plan to do about it? as it's been almost three months of inconvenience for everyone living in Sansha space. I have been complaining a lot but other than posting direct messages to Developers on Twitter or making a thread in General Discussion (where it will be trolled and trolled) I don't see how else I can raise any more attention to this issue.

All of the problems are documented in a thread, people have been bumping and posting in it for a long time and still all we have had is "bug report the NPC's in question"

See we can't really bug report every single NPC with a tracking disruptor, we're not asking for it to be worthless like it was just that turret based ships actually have a chance if more than one TD NPC spawns.

NPC's orbiting at 40KM and max range (optimal and falloff) being only 15 isn't fun in any way. Note as well that the time the NPC's actually let up from their Tracking Disruption is almost nothing. What is a 5-10 second gap when you have three to six (in some anomalies, missions or complexes more) using them at the same time.

Current solutions are:
- Use missile ships
- Use drone ships
- use MJD and low DPS sniper (100km) ships.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2013-02-21 19:07:35 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, it is a bug and it is being fixed today :) Sorry for the inconvenience


You're referring to the crappy AI, I take it. Glad to hear it'll be rolled back soon!


I was talking about the warp-away bug


Ooooooooooooooooh, I see

:p



However,I hear all your problems with the new AI and I am monitoring them and we will consider making some adjustments if we feel that necessary


Suggest maybe trying to go and run some serpentis missions in a turret BS, then you will see the need to change it. 3 rats TD you so you can't hit anything, yes they do cycle.. but guess what.. they have buddies who take over. You launch your light drones to take care of scramming frigs and they almost insta pop.. continually pulling them in and launching them really doesn't work.
Radhe Amatin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-02-21 19:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Radhe Amatin
how do u manage to lose ur drones? i do low sec exploration in sansha regions and i used a myrm with 3 sentries now 4 after patch(tank u ccp) i haven't lost a drone in like 2 weeks now.
its all about the tactics.... i use imperial navy curators and they have a good range and i use that as my advantage..since sansha rats can`t hit squat past 30 km , except battleships witch i use hammer heads to take out.or just remote rep the drones.

heres my tactic that served me well so far. after warp in asses the situation...if rats are far out 70 80 km drop sentries take em out one by one when they start to close like 20 km or so pick sentries up mwd another 70 km and repeat. rinse and repeat.

id the rats are within 30 km radius of u pick a direction away, don`t activate mwd, launch light drones take frigs/dessies out then mwd to sentries max range...cruisers and bc and bs are slow as hell.start take em out.

now if u have a gun/missile ship with over 60 70 km optimal....and have drones u can use another tactic.... this happend to me by mistake..... i was in a caracal noob as i was first 5/10 i found i just warped in ...bad move....don`t ever do it i all most died but then something happened rats aggro my 2 t1 hobs..... and i recalled em to orbit me...and here i was 60 km from rats 0 agro on ship and all rats trying to shot my drone with no effect what so ever....and so i finished the plex just by running around and my drones keeping the aggro. btw this tactic only works with rats that have short range(so no guristas) and its not always working.
cpp this is not an exploit....its a strategy :D

Or if u have a a spare mid slot trow in a ewar module rats really and i mean really hate ewar , they`ll come after you like crazy dogs lol.
My point being yes the new AI is a pita sometimes but you just need to change you're fittings and tactics.

some more info on drones.in case u didn't know:

elite cruiser and frigates....target all types of drone so be careful of those.
frigs/dessi target medium, heavies and sentries
cruiser/bc medium,heavies and sentries
Battleships only target heavies and sentries.
Don`t use any ecm drones they are instant aggro same as logistics.

Hope you find a nice strategy that suits you're play style. Fare well fellow explorer.
Radhe Amatin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-02-21 20:00:20 UTC
[/quote]


However,I hear all your problems with the new AI and I am monitoring them and we will consider making some adjustments if we feel that necessary[/quote]

Suggest maybe trying to go and run some serpentis missions in a turret BS, then you will see the need to change it. 3 rats TD you so you can't hit anything, yes they do cycle.. but guess what.. they have buddies who take over. You launch your light drones to take care of scramming frigs and they almost insta pop.. continually pulling them in and launching them really doesn't work.
[/quote]

serpentis rats sensor damp u u can fly anything you want u`ll still be in deep s***.
Sansha and blood raiders are Tracking Disrupt you to the point of gunships are useless.
Raven DarkSouless
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-02-21 20:39:03 UTC
FoF missiles FTW Twisted
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2013-02-21 23:06:30 UTC
Radhe Amatin wrote:



However,I hear all your problems with the new AI and I am monitoring them and we will consider making some adjustments if we feel that necessary[/quote]

Suggest maybe trying to go and run some serpentis missions in a turret BS, then you will see the need to change it. 3 rats TD you so you can't hit anything, yes they do cycle.. but guess what.. they have buddies who take over. You launch your light drones to take care of scramming frigs and they almost insta pop.. continually pulling them in and launching them really doesn't work.
[/quote]

serpentis rats sensor damp u u can fly anything you want u`ll still be in deep s***.
Sansha and blood raiders are Tracking Disrupt you to the point of gunships are useless.[/quote]

Yep, me got confused Oops
La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#18 - 2013-02-22 01:12:34 UTC
Radhe Amatin wrote:
how do u manage to lose ur drones?


Thanks for the advice. My ship is drones only so I do usually keep at range and stick with sentries. I run Guristas in null - it's probably more of an issue in 8/10 than it is i 5/10 tbh. Yes there are many sites I run where I don't lose drones but the more aggressive sites will have my sentries getting pounded from 60km away constantly.

What I may do is boost my targeting range and sit 100k off everything - kind of depressing that it's come to that though
Radhe Amatin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-02-22 06:11:16 UTC
La'Krul wrote:
Radhe Amatin wrote:
how do u manage to lose ur drones?


Thanks for the advice. My ship is drones only so I do usually keep at range and stick with sentries. I run Guristas in null - it's probably more of an issue in 8/10 than it is i 5/10 tbh. Yes there are many sites I run where I don't lose drones but the more aggressive sites will have my sentries getting pounded from 60km away constantly.

What I may do is boost my targeting range and sit 100k off everything - kind of depressing that it's come to that though


I feel your pain brother.... guristas are the nastiest rats there for two reason:

1) they have way to much engagement range ... its ridiculous i ran a mag site in null last night with a friend i was in a cov ops doing the scanning.... and a guristas bs was shoting me at 350 km away.... i had to mwd 600 km to brake lock so i can cloak. thats insane.
2) doing guristas you only have 1 strategy tank and spank.... u can`t pull range, drones take more dmg do to rats using missiles, unless you do them in a assault frig speed tanking is out of the equation.
My advice if u are using a drone ship.... go do sansha or blood raiders (some times neut can be a pain but u can pull range on it) for a couple of reasons:
1) they have close to medium engagement ranges, at 60 70 km should be fine for the DEDs you are after, in you can kite them pretty well.
2) drone ships except for gila...are armor tanking..... em/thermal dmg that the rats do can be easily tanked with less tanking modules then other types of rats due to high native armor resistances.
3)they are weak vs thermal dmg witch means u can use the highest dps drones the gallente ones, gardes might be a pain if u don't have maxed range skills and use tracking links and scope chips rigs, they range is kinda bad but u can use curators they have a nice range and dmg.
Fred P
Carebears of New Eden
#20 - 2013-02-22 11:58:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Fred P
CCP Affinity wrote:
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, it is a bug and it is being fixed today :) Sorry for the inconvenience


You're referring to the crappy AI, I take it. Glad to hear it'll be rolled back soon!


I was talking about the warp-away bug


Ooooooooooooooooh, I see

:p



However,I hear all your problems with the new AI and I am monitoring them and we will consider making some adjustments if we feel that necessary


Any word on the new AI that we were promised when the current one was implemented? Was the current one not just supposed to be temporary?

Edit: I'm not crazy am I? I swear I'm not the only one remembering a new AI being mentioned back when this one was implemented.
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