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Retreiver or Procurer?
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Enki Marduk
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-02-18 18:42:03 UTC
Elinarien wrote:
If you're on low skills then there's not that much difference in the yield between a procurer and a retriever. But the big difference - regardless of skill level - is the size of the ore hold which makes the retriever far more practical.


Agreed. I use a Retriever for all of my mining. It is wonderful. I've got it fitted for max cargo space. Had a Procuror. It IS tanky, but that's it. For me, Retriever all the way.
Kate stark
#22 - 2013-02-18 19:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
For a single player the Procurer rocks. Yeah, it's only a 1/2 can hold and you wil have to warp to station more, but at least you won't be warping in your pod.

But I too sell Retrievers also, so if it is bad advice you want, good ole Dave Stark is the man to listen to.


except my advice is spot on. you will make more isk/hour in a retriever because higher yield and less time warping.
also, the fact that people think you get ganked as soon as you warp in to an asteroid belt is so stupid it's beyond stupid.

i've been mining my whole eve career, never lost a single exhumer. lost 2 mining barges, one to me antagonising (aka going out of my way to be a complete ****) to some one during hulkageddon, and the other to an awox.

had i been mining in a procurer instead; i'd have still lost at least one of those ships, but the cost of one covetor doesn't even come CLOSE the the amount of isk i'd have lost over my long mining career if i'd been in a procurer instead of a retriever.

also, look at the volume mined in the dev blog; being popular doesn't mean it's correct but you'd have a hard time arguing it's incorrect, especially looking at the numbers.

Enki Marduk wrote:
fitted for max cargo space


look at him, look at him and laugh.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
stoicfaux
#23 - 2013-02-19 15:36:50 UTC
General answer is Retriever due to the large ore hold.

Fuzzy answer, in the context of high-sec, if you fit a tanking mod to a Retreiver (i.e. a DCII) then a Procurer can mine more by using drones.

Procurer: 1170 yield + up to 395 from 1k m/s mining drones, 29k EHP, runs SB to perma-tank rats.
Retriever with 3x MLUs: 1275 yield, 10.8k EHP, uses drones to kill rats
Retriever with 2x MLUs, DCII: 1170 yield, 16.8k EHP, uses drones to kill rats

OTOH, you don't need a full flight of five light drones to kill high-sec rats, so you could add a couple of mining drones to the Retriever.

The Procurer is easy to fit, whereas the Retriever is really tight on CPU. If you're paranoid about gankers and don't mind making more trips to unload, have bad fittng skills, but good mining drone skills, then the Procurer may be a good option for you.

Even so, whether you use 2 or 3 MLUs, the Retriever is normally the way to go due to the large ore bay.


[Procurer, New Setup 1]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Small Shield Booster II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Drone Mining Augmentor I
Medium Drone Mining Augmentor I
Medium Drone Mining Augmentor I


Mining Drone II x5



[Retriever, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin I x4
Salvage Drone I x1


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
The Renner
Canadian Operations
#24 - 2013-02-19 16:16:06 UTC
On behalf of all pre-patch procurer hoarders I would like to recommend you fly one of those fine ships. Thanks.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#25 - 2013-02-20 18:49:14 UTC
Before the change to mining ships the majority of miners used HULKs fit for max yield and cargo. regardless of risk, most miners did not tank.

So after the change do we really expect anything to change? You no longer need to use rigs for cargo as it does not affect the ore holds. so no rigs are tank or drone yield. might as well tank if you do not use mining drones.

As far as yield goes, unless you have mining barge 5 the covetor only has a marginal gain over the retriever. the Covetor gets 4% gain per level but the retriever can fit an extra MLU. An MLU II is 9% so at ming barge 1 the retriever out mines the covetor by 5%, while at mining barge 3 the covetor has a 3% advantage. Even at mining barge 5 the covetor only out mines the retriever by 11%. Not a big margin. Considering the size of the retrievers ore hold will save you at least 15% efficiency over hauling with the covetor that 11% higher yield is pointless.

Even a max skilled HULK only gains 21% yield over a max skilled retriever, and only 16% over the Mackinaw. That third MLU in the lows makes up for a big chunk of the difference in skill based bonuses. Consider that the Mackinaw has a 35,000m3 ore hold compared to the HULKS 8,000m3. 16% mining yield is only beneficial when in a fleet op where hauling is taken care of.

Fitting drone mining rigs and 5 max skilled mining drone II's adds up to 400m3/min depending on drone travel time.

Maxing out all the relevant skills takes a lot of time, but it is not until all skills are maxed that the yield advantage of the HULK really shines, at low skills however the difference is negligible. The retriever is the most popular mining ship because it is the best option. It mines only slightly less than the mack, and cost about 10% as much.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#26 - 2013-02-20 18:56:36 UTC
Enki Marduk wrote:

Agreed. I use a Retriever for all of my mining. It is wonderful. I've got it fitted for max cargo space. Had a Procuror. It IS tanky, but that's it. For me, Retriever all the way.

How do you fit a retriever for max cargo? there is no module or rig that affects the size of the ore hold. Your choices are basically tank mods, yield mods, or speed/agility mods. The old way you would use cargo rigs and expanders to max the cargo hold. but now they have an ore hold that is unaffected by those modules.
I hope you do not mean expanding the tiny cargo hold to hold a few more crystals as that is not worth giving up 9% yield per low slot swaping an MLU II for an expander. Even rig slots are far more useful to add tank or speed/agility than a few m3 of near useless cargo space.
Grace Rhys
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-02-21 23:58:28 UTC
Hi,

If I can give people another thing to think about. That is number of turrets.

While each barge has the equivalent of 3 turrets, the advantage that the Retriever and Covator has over the Procurer is that it can target multiple roids.

If you are mining Highsec, a lot of the roids will not have a full cycle on the x3 procurer turret so more micro management will be needed to reduce wasted cycles.

Cheers
GR
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